Marvey's Cable Rolling Adventures

Discussion in 'Modifications and Tweaks' started by purr1n, May 7, 2016.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
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    The Pangea stuff actually sounds a bit different from Cardas cables. I figure same copper, but different insulation. The Cardas stuff is more relaxed and laid back.

    I've used various Mogami with great results. I like Mogami because all the cable characteristics are measured and documented. Plenum grade CAT5 with teflon has worked in a pinch. I still like CAT5 for speaker cables.
     
  2. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Pangea interconnect cross-section.png

    Could be that Jay doesn't spend the time to do the Golden Ratio stranding that George does. I also noticed on the zoomed-in cross section of the Pangea interconnect that the Cardas copper appears to only be used on the positive leg.
     
  3. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

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    Again I ask about the cat5 cable. Do you just connect 3 strands to each terminal?
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
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    Four strands total, one from each pair. Tie all the solid colored wires to one. Tie all the striped for the other.
     
  5. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

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    Any specific cat5 cable you recommend?
     
  6. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

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    Hmm, found a guy selling 900ft of 6 conductor (24 awg each) solid copper cat3 cable for $25. Might pick that up.
     
  7. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    900ft? You sure that's gonna be enough son?
     
  8. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    Silver can work really well for digital use (SPDIF and AES)…

    And I find it encouraging that differences in cables ARE being noticed.
    That tells me a whole bunch.

    JJ
     
  9. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    But when does it end?
    I mean Jesus Christ, look through the list here:
    https://www.thecableco.com/Catalog/Cables

    There aren't that many high end headphones or amplifier companies as there are cable companies.



    $16,200 USD for 0.75 meters of Siltech inetrconnects
    https://www.thecableco.com/Product/Siltech-Empress-Double-Crown
    They "embodies hi-tech metallurgy like G7 (Silver-Gold) and S8 (Mono Crystal Silver)". Mono Crystal Silver sounds like a made up word.

    $16,000 for a 23 inch Tara Labs's The Zero Evolution interconnect
    https://www.thecableco.com/Product/The-Zero-with-HFX
    I mean what the hell is "SAOF-8N 99.999999% inline polished conductors that use Liquid-film™ dielectric"?

    $14,000 MIT Oracle has a box attached to their interconnects with a impedance switch & 98 Articulation Poles. WTF is that?
    https://www.thecableco.com/Product/Oracle-V1-5-XLR

    $13,500 for these 1 meter Crystal Connect RCA cable
    https://www.thecableco.com/Product/CrystalConnect-Absolute-Dream--Pair-
    "pure mono crystal silver core is covered with Dupont's Kapton and PEEK as dielectiric and two shielding layers, one layer of silver plated mono crystal copper and one layer of gold plated mono crystal silver".
    Crystal copper? Is that even a thing?

    $10,500 for Jorma Prime XLR
    https://www.thecableco.com/Product/Prime--XLR-
    They don't even use silver, just copper. "99.999999% pure copper. No. 3 cables employ 99.9999% pure copper". Which I copuld have sworn was used in a ton of other sub $100 interconnects.

    Does anyone see anything in these cables that suggest more than a thousand dollars in raw material?
     
  10. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    It doesn't have to. As with pretty much anything in this hobby, regular Joes (a healthy 99.99% of it) should be on the lookout for the value proposition. You can always splurge the value of a home mortgage on something, but it don't mean you should.

    I tried AudioQuest's Tower 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable, and the bugger worked only half of the times (in a friendly, non hostile setting). I then looked at AQ's pricing scheme for their higher-end stuff, and bottom line is I ain't touching any of their stuff in the future. From what I see this firm is all about marketing positioning and audiophile-grade pricing, which makes me wonder about their technical expertise. Hell, a 70$ Lifatec will outspec their top of the line 500$ optical interconnect. I'm better off with a PYST here...
     
  11. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    Why does it matter to you, that some one else is willing pay those prices?
    If someone has that kind of money and are willing to spend it then that is what they could deem as a good thing,
    For Them.

    I've learned that trying to save someone from themselves is not just pointless, but it also gets you all wrapped up in their learning curve.
    UNLESS they ask for your help, trying to save them from themselves does very little good for them AND for you.

    By way of comparison, one of my reference power cables cost me ≈ $40 in parts.
    IOW it doesn't HAVE to be expensive, but then some of us audiophools measure the value of their system not by the same criteria that I do.
    I value SQ 1st and 2nd and 3rd, not the $$$ spent to attain it.
    In fact I had rented several $5k power cables and one of them completely cut off ALL bass below ≈100Hz.
    I had NO idea that was even possible and still don't, so $$$$ alone doesn't mean much, at least to me…

    And everyone will have a different way of measuring success, or as I call it 'Better', based upon their own criteria, which will change as more experience is gained.

    Lastly if you or anyone wants to be the arbiter of what is a good deal, or not, for anyone else, well one of the byproducts of assuming this role is frustration.
    And I think we all have experienced this to some extent.

    So if it bothers you that someone is getting burned spending more on a set of cables than what your car costs, my advice is LET THEM LEARN, the hard way if that is what has to happen.
    Because obviously they CAN afford it.

    Besides, those cables may come up on the used market and you could snag them at a fraction of the new price.
    That's a win/win for you!

    JJ
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
  12. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    This. My experience (non-audio related) is that you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. And you shouldn't. The most to do is to gently test if they might be receptive to some of your input, and if not, it really doesn't concern you any further.
     
  13. pedalhead

    pedalhead Friend

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    As a cable skeptic myself, reading this stuff from @Marvey is baking my cookie.

    Considering the source however, and in the spirit of keeping an open mind, perhaps I need to take a second look at cable-fu. I think the big turn-off for me is when you get these randos on HF saying "hey this $800 hyper-helix-doodad cable has totally transformed my headphones". Open mind or not, I just don't buy this kind of hyperbole with cables.

    But, as a skeptic trying to keep an open mind, it would be useful to understand some terms of reference for the differences between cables that you guys are talking about in this thread. Are we talking subtle little changes that perhaps would go unnoticed by the inexperienced ear? Or really is this a major difference akin to what you might expect from changing source and/or amplifier?
     
  14. Artasia

    Artasia Friend

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    1) The one doing the comparison in this thread has now repeatedly stated the seemingly counterintuitive point that the cheapest priced interconnect cables tested constitute the best value and vault over significantly more pricey options.

    2) Your post is banal regurgitation of the same point that could be copy and pasted to any discussion about cables and thus reveals you did not address the particulars in the OP, invalidating your claim as being empty, unsubstantiated theory not grounded in experience or even comprehension of the nuances in the OP, which by the way address reservations toward cables' sonic impact already.

    3) The structure of your logic is known as a slippery slope fallacy ("when does it/will it end"?)

    4) I bought a pair of the Pangea interconnects mentioned here several months back and can confirm a real difference between them, which offers a more engaging and forward sound, to my previous interconnects. It wasn't subtle at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
  15. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    As I wrote elsewhere it isn't JUST the cable.
    It is but one part of the ac power delivery system and depending upon what it is plugged into can all to easily make more of a difference than simply the power cable itself.

    Put another way if the branch circuit and/or the duplex receptacle are the major limitations, then even a super zupy power cable can't over come those limitations.
    This, at least for me, helps to explain why some hear no differences, let alone any improvement when using a 'better' power cable.

    And of course it also depends upon the playback system in its entirety.
    IOW if there is a Choke Point (CP) elsewhere in the system, and IT is the major limitation, then it will be that CP that limits ones attempts at achieving 'better' SQ.
    And until those major CP's are ameliorated, well there might be some improvements but they will be overshadowed by those major CP's.

    Think of it as a form of restriction that ALL of the signal must pass thru in one form or another, and until that restriction is removed, any changes up or down stream from that restriction (CP) are still going to be limited by that restriction, one way or another.

    JJ
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  16. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    Because if it does make a difference I want to get in on it.

    The 10 grand stuff I posted have a bunch of buzzwords & jargon to describe their cables, but not necessarily the numbers of cores, strands or materials used.
     
  17. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    Then I'd suggest you start by renting cables from The Cable Co. (if that's an option) and experimenting to find out what does and what doesn't work for you.
    THEN worry about replicating those results, if you can as a DIY project.

    Or if your budget allows search out some 6' lengths of 'audio grade' cable and make up a few for yourself and see what happens…
    Like I said it cost me $40 in parts to make a killer cable that was clearly 'better'.

    Or bite the bullet on a few cables that can be returned and try them.

    But without any direct experience with any of them, it's just a crap shoot.

    JJ
     
  18. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

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    Well i just got the 900ft for 15$.
    Dont need to buy any more cable for the rest of my life.
     
  19. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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  20. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    pssst - se rca analog on the cheap = Canare GS-6 with canare rcas.

    Under $30

    Take off the steel strain relief for more open sound. Almost made me want to give up my $400 cables and in many systems, I would.
     

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