Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by purr1n, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. JonnieD

    JonnieD Acquaintance

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    Do you mean replace some of the capacitors?

    An obvious one is the output caps around the power transistors. We are going to try that in our audio club, replacing the electrolytic with a decent film or similar cap type cap.
     
  2. JonnieD

    JonnieD Acquaintance

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    Has anyone tried this on batteries yet? I would have thought that would be better than any low / mid price LPS.

    I've got a couple of car batteries charging in the garage ready to try myself, so I'll post here once I'd tried it.
     
  3. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    You sure you got +28? Two car batteries in series only going to give you a little over 24+ maybe.
     
  4. bilboda

    bilboda Florida boomer

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    Added the Chinese LPSU to my amp. Different pics on the site show a Zerozone or Glozone or unbranded like the one I received, I mention zerozone because they have been well received in the past including in the never ending thread re. the never ending usb or ethernet chain. Very heavy, it output 28.1 volts so I put it to work,
    Easily perceptible difference. Noise floor dropped leaving instruments more out in open space, more depth and sense of width, more intelligible. Haven't compared with the Crack yet but I think I may need a choke and maybe better caps, wires and and volume pot for the Crack/Speedball to keep up with MTCH.
    I need less adjustment with Loki for movie vocals.
    A worthwhile upgrade.
     
  5. pigfoot

    pigfoot New

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    Want to replace film caps in signal path.

    Some power tools use 28V battery.
     
  6. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    @msommers came around last night to pick up his LPS, and brought with him his own MCTH, DSJr, laptop with tunes and an RCA switcher, so we spent some time going back and forth between SMPS and LPS powered versions.

    This has caused me to revise my initial impression somewhat. While I'd I heard improvement in the bass, it wasn't quite as much as I'd expected from others' reports so I was more impressed by being able to hear the apparent noise reduction. Turns out I wasn't listening to bassy enough tracks - a couple with great kicking bass drum, and one of Nils Lofgren's bass player doing a crazy intro to a live set were more impressively different in amplitude and texture than I'd heard on my initial assessment. With that, my current opinion of the across-the-board change is perhaps more in line with what others have heard - ie, rather more than my previous 'noticeable', even to my cloth ears.

    He also brought beer, which is well known to improve the bass performance all components.
     
  7. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I'm a total toob noob, and after comments that rolling with the MCTH didn't affect the sound much, I was surprised how much difference I was hearing with the tubes in my @shotgunshane grag bag. I meant to write updates as I tried each one, but have been a bit busy. So some details have evaporated from my memory into the wind, but I think I can remember the basic character of each one. I had been leaving the volume at the same setting, but eventually realized that different tubes have different gain, so poor volume matching may have skewed my impressions.
    • RCA 7308 ("G4 9K" stamped on a tab inside, possibly 1960s NOS rebranded Siemens?): Not dissimilar to the Valvo, with slightly more and bloomier bass. Treble timbre sounds very realistic: particularly cymbals and highhats. Would be great if the bass was tighter and had better initial attack.
    • Siemens CCa: Extreme bass roll-off, and a lot also in the treble. Smooth mids, but poor response at the far ends.
    • Voskhod 6H23(P?): Similar to the stock EH. At first I thought it had moar bass, but realized it was louder overall. Treble is etchier and bass turns out to be not as full nor punchy as the EH. Soundstage was also more closed in comparison.
    • Telefunken E88CC: This tube has tighter, punchier bass than it's German brethren, though not quite up to the EH's standards. Mids and treble are smoother however, making this a good competitor with the EH, and possibly a better choice depending on genre.
    • Tesla E88CC: Wow, this tube is very forward. Vocals are very upfront. Bass is a touch shy of the EH in both quantity and impact. Treble sounds a bit tinny. Interesting that Glen Gould's humming is much easier to hear.
    I think I'll be alternating between the Telefunken and EH, genre dependent.
     
  8. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Drinking beverage of choice during listening sessions does wonders for reining in nervosa and enjoying the music.
     
  9. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    To be frank, I was really skeptical that an LPS would make much of a noticeable difference but for the cost I figured, 'why not.'

    However, I will have to echo the differences noted by @Biodegraded and many others in this thread, an LPS does improve this amp. At @Biodegraded's place we had stock 6XX and stock HD650 plugged into both volume-matched stock amps, one with the SMPS and the other with LPS -- essentially we would quickly pick up a pair of headphones and flip the switcher (A Mapletree LR-1 if anyone cares https://hollowstate.netfirms.com/#routers).

    What became more obvious during our back-and-forth with the MCHTs was the veil/haze with SMPS was lifted a bit with the LPS. Reverb lasted a bit longer, drums had a cleaner and more taught snap to them, bass felt tighter and less round, soundstage projection moved slightly further beyond the forehead, and the midrange seemed to have overall better macro/micro details, more obviously with piano and vocals. If I was to bullshit a number on how much the LPS improved the amp, I'd say ~10%. The LPS does improve the amp, but if you're expecting the overall euphonic character to change, you're bound for disappointment.

    I've had a few hours to compare amps using my setup at home: JRiver w/ Sonarworks HD650 profile -> DSJr USB -> LR-1 switcher -> Valhalla 2 (stock tubes)/LPS-MCHT (stock tube) -> stock HD650.

    The LPS-MCHT vs. Valhalla 2 is interesting and really highlights how different these amps are. Long story short, I wish the significantly better microdetails that the Valhalla 2 brings to the table was present on the MCHT because I enjoy the overall signature more. The Valhalla 2 in comparison is much more forward, punchy and aggressive, slightly wider soundstage, much more 'airy' which I attribute to significantly better microdetails -- reverb is cut off much earlier on MCHT. However, Valhalla 2 comes across a bit clinical/sterile in its overall presentation vs. MCHT, which is more laid-back/relaxed. MCHT's soundstage doesn't project as forward outside your head as Valhalla 2 and is narrower L-R, bass is slightly rounder and more prominent, midrange is darker and the top end is sweeter albeit can come across as chopped when comparing Valhalla 2. Acoustic guitar strings can sound a bit 'tinny' on V2 while MCHT, which will lack some of the subtle scratches V2 reveals, presents more naturally in its timbre.

    To reiterate, the LPS does improve the MCHT and I would say if you can get one to your door for ~$75 USD, go for it. Beyond that, I wish the LPS-MCHT and Valhalla 2 had a bastard child. I really enjoy the technicalities that Valhalla 2 brings but it's overall character needs to smoke some weed and calm down.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  10. ohshitgorillas

    ohshitgorillas Friend

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    Could one run a 12AU7 or 6SN7 via adapter on this amp, like on the Vali 2?
     
  11. busterbrown77

    busterbrown77 New

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    Just wired up my DIY LPS that @Biodegraded posted on page 37, and I'm just over here laughing. It's silly how much of a difference there is with the TH-X00 Purplehearts, and I haven't even tried the HD-800S yet. Bass impact is so much more authoritative, no sense of wobble with really deep or hard hitting bass. Anyone who listens to Infected Mushroom, Neelix, or the like will see big gains with a LPS.

    [​IMG]

    Have a enclosure coming in soon, I'll reinforce the connections then and make sure everything is all buttoned up. Not difficult at all if you take your time (and the satisfaction of building it yourself makes it sound 40% better :p). I do notice there is a slight delay turning the amp on, about 4 seconds more. Doesn't bother me though.

    (Pretend you don't see 6 tubes in that photo. Only the EH and Amperex. I could explain but that probably would make it seem even more ridiculous...)
     
  12. monacelli

    monacelli Friend

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    No, tube rolling options are more limited on the MCTH (different heater design). See this post from @dBel84:

     
  13. busterbrown77

    busterbrown77 New

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    Nope, Alex Cavalli actually answered this on the massdrop thread, though that's a nightmare to navigate so i'll post his response here.

    "I'm afraid this won't work. For two reasons one bad and one might-not-sound-good.
    1. The 6922 requires 330mA heater current. 6SN7 requires 600mA. The heater supply will start to max out at 400mA. 600mA will probably over-tax it and could cause failure.
    2. Plate voltage on the triodes is a little over 100V. 6922 is very happy here, but this plate voltage is low for 6SN7 and probably puts it into a much less linear regime."
     
  14. ohshitgorillas

    ohshitgorillas Friend

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    Oh well. I got the version with the SDAC used...guy ran it for two hours and decided he didn't like it. Didn't even start to burn the tube in. I got this for my office, to run with a pair of ZMF Classic (which I adore), right now I'm using a Mojo but 90% of my use is at my desk and I got worried about the daily battery cycling. I predict they'll pair well together, lots of people say that the Atticus has a really great synergy with this amp, and the Classic has the same sort of 'ZMF house' sound (well-extended bass, realistic mids, relaxed but extended treble, excellent resolution) but in a more budget-friendly planar form.

    I am gonna roll with the stock PSU for a while and build AMB sigma11 eventually. I also saw some crazy tube rolling a few pages back involving upgraded PSUs that I need to explore more...noice....
     
  15. ori0n

    ori0n New

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    @busterbrown77 If I may ask, how much would you say a DIY LPS like this cost you to make versus buying something complete (e.g. something like this? or something like this?) I wonder if its worthwhile trying the DIY route or just getting a pre-made. Cheers.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  16. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    The key to really saving money on these LPS units is finding something suitable that's used.
     
  17. maverickronin

    maverickronin Friend

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    Definitely this.

    I have no idea what I'm going to do with it yet, but I picked up a 5A (7A 50% duty) 13.8V LPS at a thrift store for $6.50 yesterday.

    Also, thrift stores are often full of old transformer based wall warts which you can use to replace an SMPS or just rip out the transformer and use it in your own project. They're usually lower voltage or amperage than you'd need for the MTCH or the upcoming Liquid Platnium, but plenty will be suitable for powering a DAC or network streamer board.

    Not audio related, but there are usually plenty of SMPS around too which are good for cheaply powering LED strips.
     
  18. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Maybe a bit harder to find for this case, because you want 28V and at least 1.5A, (>=42VA), maybe more if tube rolling is planned. Having said that though, others have found suitable used units cheap (e.g. @rtaylor76 a few pages back), so keep hunting eBay etc.
     
  19. westermac

    westermac Friend

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    EDIT: not a linear power supply after all. No wonder it seemed like a good deal
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  20. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Edit: post no longer relevant.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018

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