Massdrop x THX AAA 789

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by neogeosnk, Feb 26, 2018.

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  1. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    I stick with high gain, even with the relatively sensitive Clears. In fact, usually the pot is sitting at about 11 o'clock, with a Saga OG in front (50/50 tube or passive depending on mood) doing volume control, but I listened to it with Saga out of the chain at first and still do when I run computer audio through its AKM 4490 module...
     
  2. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    I sold drop 789 and subsequently SMSL SP200 after a brief audition. They lacked character and sounded rather sterile, while doing some things quite right (decent head stage and dynamics, but lacking impact and micro detail).

    For some reason I decided to try the Topping A90. Yet another composite/feed-forward feedback amp. Curiously it is based on the overused-in-Chinese-gear TI TPA6120 amp, but with an overengineered feedback design to reduce distortion on the analyser.. and I'm not surprised that this one doesn't sound identical to the THX. It has a sound signature of its own.

    [​IMG]

    I'm not sure yet I like it, it sounds clean and bass can actually thump and it doesn't seem to share the super sterile-ness of the THX module amps.. BUT I still think it lacks.. 'character'. Anyway. The volume knob is also better than the drop and the SMSL. It has dual amps, dual power supplies, XLR/RCA input and XLR/RCA pre-out. TRS, XLR, 4.4mm out. Those are nice features but the price is also quite a lot for a chinese amp. So far I think I like it better than the drop. I wanted a low distortion amp for gaming, since I like the lack of distortion and the decent head-stage. But the drop is $299 and this one is $499 so I'm not sure I'd recommend it to you guys. Especially since it's a glorified TPA6120 amp. But on the other hand, it doesn't sound as bad as one would think. Mixed feelings but I think im gonna keep it.. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  3. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    Got this in a few days on loan from @YMO

    Source: Schitt Modius
    Headphones: LCD-2C, HD650, Alclair Triple Reference IEM, KZ ZSN Pro

    Initial impressions:

    - has low end, but not much definition. kind of tight and controlled, but there.
    - warmer than you would initially think. Does not make everything sound like an ESS DAC.
    - super similar timbre to my Liquid Carbon oddly enough
    - everything is super-forward and flat. No depth to the sound at all. No real realism. Sounds like there is a haze over everything and then there is a mid-lift and some graininess somewhere, and most pronounced on Gain of III.

    Good:
    - tons of power - on Gain of III, music will be forced in your head like a hammer. Great if you like EDM.
    - like the 3 gain settings and unbalanced/balanced options - tons of options
    - Balanced is better.

    Overall, the sound was just flat and boring. Completely un-inspiring, other than it just would just crank. Then YMO said to try it on BA IEMs. "Ok, sure."

    On balanced armature IEMs:

    Ok, f-me, this was made for IEM's! This should be the SOLE purpose of this amp. Plugging in IEM's was like unlocking the secret potential where everything makes sense. Like discovering that hidden tunnel in Zelda. It outclasses all my desktop amps for powering IEMs...almost. My Liquid Carbon and my Gilmore DIY clone sound dry and shouty with IEMs. Gone is the upper mid harshness, and the hiss, and the flatness that the other amps provide, and presented is this open and wide bliss that is reminiscent of a tube amp, but a fast tube amp. Highs are not harsh, there is space between the instruments, black backgrounds. I would not say it is like going from black and white to color, but it is not far off. Now this was with some triple driver BA's (Aclair Triple Refernce) , some two way hybrid IEM's (KZ ZSN Pro). Everything I threw at it, EDM, rock, jazz, acoustic, industrial..it presented with deep details, good defined bass, and high end that was there, but never harsh. Everything was very true.

    Now, on IEMs, my Lyr 3 was just a bit more expansive and dynamic with a much more relaxed sound that was just effortless. I did not expect this out of the Lyr 3, but then again, there is a lot of cool things going on in the Lyr 3 as well, besides a tube. Going back to the THX you can hear some strain and the flatness reappear on more complicated passes. I probably would never hear this until going to an amp like the Lyr 3. I mean, $500 for a a desktop IEM amp that will never get out of high gain and can still hear a bit of the microphonics of the tube....um...probably not, but the Lyr 3 overall is a bit more versatile to me, but back to the THX....At lower volumes the THX probably had more details and a slightly wider soundstage.

    And the 3.5mm jack I thought was totally unnecessary, is totally NOT and completely awesome. I did not try balanced output with IEMs becasue I have no balanced IEM cables. I am not sure I would do that unless you are going to have an unbalanced source. Balanced input + Balanced output is about the same as Balanced input + Unbalanced Output, at Gain II. Basically, Gain II makes up for not having a balanced input. Output is not quite equal when coming to output and gain settings. With IEMs though, unbalanced input with unbalanced output was still really enjoyable and gave more resolution in the volume control. Not trying to light the fires on the new all unbalanced THX amp just announced from Drop, but if you listen to IEMs at your desk, that is the amp for you.

    ;TLDR - Flat and kind of boring amp with headphones. IEMs with balanced armatures is where this amp really shines, even unbalanced.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  4. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    ^^ Thanks for the impressions. Which iems did you try?
     
  5. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    My Alclair Triple Reference IEM - https://alclair.com/product/reference/
    It has three Knowles drivers.

    And my KZ ZSN Pro - http://www.kzacoustics.com/2019/hybrid technology_0325/82.html
    $20 from Amazon hybrid Chi-Fi. Proprietary ba and a dynamic for the lows.

    I tried them with my Shure SE215's and did not have the same magic. Likely because the SE215 is a micro-dynamic driver and not a BA design.

    Truly, it is a different animal completely with IEM's. More dramatic than the IEM Match from iFi. All I found the IEM Match to do from the iDSD was take the hiss out and lower the gain down to acceptable level for IEMs. On regular headphones, that switch did not seem do to anything. Maybe I did not listen enough with IEMs, but I did not catch any magic like I did on the THX.
     
  6. mk801

    mk801 Almost "Made"

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    Assuming you used the balanced outputs from the Modius, the balanced signal at 4V is too hot for Gain III of the 789, which probably led to the clipping that you heard. Gain III can only take 2.1V, beyond that clipping will occur.

    Other than that, then I agree that the THX AAA 789 is a bit sterile, too polite sounding.

    https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/talk/2170291
    https://drop.com/buy/drop-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier/talk/2170307
     
  7. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    Very well could be clipping. I don't doubt it.

    And polite is not a word I would use to describe this amp. It is not "in Yo face" like the Magni 3, but is is also not laid back like the Gilmore Lite MKII.

    It more reminds me of a slightly warmer and more powerful O2. Just bland and flat. At least with regular headphones. It is easy to get congested and lacks that micro dynamics.
     
  8. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    THX 789 Impressions

    Many thanks to YMO for setting up this personal loaner! I’d been curious about this amp for years, so curious that I almost bought one myself. I was expecting to be able to appreciate at least a few things about it, especially after the intense gushing splattered online.

    [​IMG]

    I don’t like much about the 789. It may not be fair to compare it directly to McIntosh’s MHA150, but that’s the solid-state amp I’m most familiar with. Listening was done with the Hifiman HE1000se, Abyss Diana Phi, and Yggdrasil over balanced cables.

    Yes, it sounds clean, yes it has enough power for the HE6. It's fine for $300, but it's no giant killer. Where the 789 falls apart is in dynamics and musicality. Track after track, this is a visual representation of what the 789 did to all of my favorites:

    [​IMG]

    The tragic thing about this amp is the misleading hype around it. So many YouTube videos out there state that these THX amps are essentially the pinnacle of solid-state, because of course where could anyone go from here, with these charts and this power rating? There’s quite a bit of room for improvement. To the THX enthusiasts out there, for your own sake, get your ears on some other amps.
     
  9. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    I keep saying this over and over, this is a pretty good BA IEM Amp. I still stand by that comment for this amp.
     
  10. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    @YMO it's not that I don't believe you, I just don't listen with IEMs! Small ear canals.
     
  11. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    Hmm...not sure where you're getting facemelter effect from @dubharmonic Maybe not good synergy with the Yggdrasil??

    In fact, I do own this amp and with the right source I think that it's quite enjoyable with the hd6x0. I'm using a bifrost 2 balanced out to the THX. The thx does sounds very "clean." But it's certainly not facemelting. I can understand putting a tag like "transparent" on this amp. In fact if you find the hd6x0 a little on the thick or dark side, the THX might be just your ticket.

    The THX is moderately good at staging and instrument placement. It doesn't color the sound like a tube amp would and kind of just gives you the facts. Some people won't like this for sure. Bass response was surprisingly good IMHO. It's tight and bumps better than average and is not "one note" with good texture. Power to spare and will drive anything.

    I picked up mine used in mint condition for a little under $300 and felt like I got a good deal.
     
  12. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    @Ice-man maybe my gif gave the wrong impression. Not face-melting, but restrained and unable to fully flex.
     
  13. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    A $350 now $300 amp can only do so much, and I do have similar impressions with @dubharmonic. Still, this could be the only amp if you are heavy into IEMs (look at @shotgunshane ).

    Also, not everyone needs IEMs BTW. I feel sorry for you dubs for not being able to use IEMs. It can be quite useful as you may know.....
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  14. skem

    skem Friend

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    @YMO loaner review...

    Metrum Adagio -> THX789 -> HEK

    So, lots to like about it: VERY fast, clean, analytical. I love the absence of distortion. Love the detail and attacks. In many ways timbre is more accurate than with my Pioneer M22. This was eye opening for me. Heard a number of amps, some faster than M22, but none quite as delicate in presentation. The THX reaches another level for resolution and shows how M22 is hindered by IMD and lethargic components like coupling capacitors.

    Problem with THX789 is it seems like the lower overtones are missing. Piano sounds more metallic, less woody. Trombone is all farts and no brass. There is no great sense of space, or of the room. Has a flat stage. Overall presentation is less organic (that’s good and bad, depending on your program material) It’s not the case that the amp has no bass, it does have some and it is tight. But try listening to pipe organs, you get waffling not a rich spectrum of resonances.

    Listening with HEK, I had to crank it all the way up, and for the most well recorded orchestral music (i.e., stuff that hasn’t been crompressed to all hell) and it still doesn’t have enough gain for those recordings. With some music I can play it plenty loud and that’s a sign of low distortion—nice! But I could never get to a “live” experience. It sounds compressed until at some point the volume is so loud enough that I’m being accosted by tape hiss or transients, but the instruments remain flat/recorded.

    Kind of neat. Makes me want something new and shiny with very high speed but also some soul, maybe that would be the BHA-1 rather than the THX??

    Thanks @YMO!
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
  15. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Initial impressions, more will come later.

    Yggdrasil A2 w/ USB5 with SE outs --> THX789 --> UE5, UERM, UERR (all custom, not the universal versions, not sure if that makes a difference), Auteur also SE to keep it even for now. Balanced and more gear to come later. I have an rhead and had an Asgard 3 (one of the first, so if there have been revisions, mine was most likely the "1.0") for similar level amps and will be making comparisons to these. Purposely refrained from reading impressions of others on loaner tour so apologies if anything is repeated.

    Summary: Didn't like or hugely dislike the amp before, it just wasn't for me. The verdict still stands upon trying again today. I still prefer A3 and Arcam rhead to 789 but much of it is due to personal preference, not absolute objective performance. If we want to count hybrid amps, I'll also say I prefer the Massdrop CTH to this too. 789 is a good amp for what it is, but from what I saw, it was way overhyped and overrated at time of release - supposedly people were paying more than new for these.

    Biggest complaints: Music just feels kind of dead and compressed. Soekris 1421 headphone out sounds like it's just 2 or 3 op amps and it sounds a tiny bit more alive than 789. A lot of finer detail is missing b/c everything sounds too compressed together (something Asgard 3 and arcam rhead do not do). Tonality is OK, but timbre sounds all messed up - a lot of the colors and tones of whatever instruments are missing. Fluctuations or oscillations in a instrument - think vibrato on a string instrument or in a voice - sounds really strange, even more so with the compression of detail. In short, I'm not going to listen to acoustic, instrumental, or piano/harp/organ music on this amp. Electronic music that lacks color doesn't sound that different though.

    Everything also sounds muffled on the top and bottom but it's not a lack of bass or treble - kind of like when I plugged in my old LCD3 into my Stellaris (LCD3 did not sound this way with EC Af with is also an SET tube amp or good SS + Hybrid amps). With UE5 (my most sensitive IEM), on low gain, I can really only utilize the volume pot between 7:00 and 8:00 (8:30 if I pushed it but I had to go back down after a song or two) although granted I listen quieter than most. Small amount of channel imbalance at the bottom range (rhead is better in this sense, I don't recall for A3 but I know I had some imbalance there) but if I completely bottom the knob out, I can still hear music but the imbalance almost goes away at that point. Sound stage is weird, I don't even know how to describe it... it's like it's still there... yet all gone at the same time.

    Biggest strengths
    : Very clear, clean sound (albeit without the detail and with compression). rhead and Asgard 3 are both more colored than 789. No hiss or noise in background with IEMs even on high gain but oddly it doesn't sound like a very black background. Minimal solid state annoying sound. Bass still has some impact and heft. Treble isn't harsh. Mids still have some body despite the whole sound being compressed. Not as sterile sounding as I expected even this 2nd time around (but the sound definitely leans towards sterile). All of this stuff sounds simple/dumb, but I imagine many others who have tried a significant amount of <$400 gear know what I'm saying here cannot be taken for granted in this price range.

    Transients don't impress at first, but once I listened to some rolling bass lines that I use to evaluate other gear, 789 does amazingly well for the price here. Just a shame that it isn't immediately apparent due to the compression. Can keep up with and handle busy music very well. Has control over the sound - doesn't let it run away or get sloppy/messy - I almost get a headache when this happens on bass heavy songs. However, I wonder if this happened at the cost of more compression.

    Flavor type stuff: Sounded neutral to slightly cool in the past. This still stands. Had a tiny bit of "edgy" harshness like so many (supposed) "wire with gain" amps do to varying degrees - this actually goes away with Yggdrasil. Has no euphoric natural sound like the Stellaris does. In other words, not steely artificial robotic, but definitely not an organic sound. Transients not rounded or sharp, but I would say lean slightly towards sharp (again, hard to tell due to compression).

    And very importantly, a thank you to @YMO for loaning out personal gear.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  16. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    I'm in the same boat and on top of that, I have really weird canal shapes. Makes me sad when everyone talks about whatever new IEMs and I can't even get the IEMs to even sort of fit and listen.
     
  17. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Additional thoughts - yep, 789 has a quieter out than even 1421 headphone out. At -50db output level on 1421 I can hear the faintest of noise... as a matter of fact, this is the first time I've ever noticed this low level of noise before and the noise is literally one of the quietest things I've ever heard before.

    Edit1:
    One thing I really like with UERR and to some degree on Auteur on 789 (surprisingly not as much on RM, maybe b/c RM is more transparent and showed the compression more) - this amp gives just about the perfect amount of decay with most instruments vs how the instrument would probably sound in a recording studio (of course, part of this is the Yggdrasil too... but even with other amps decay hasn't been this spot on before).

    Sound hasn't changed by any noticeable amount after amp has been plugged in for a day although not sure if it makes a difference - amp "warms up" quickly and it looks like it may completely turn off when powered down and not stay in some kind of very low power standby mode.

    Runs cool (big plus for me), chassis is pretty much the same as most other Massdrop stuff, buttons and all headphone connectors / sockets on front could be slightly better but OK for price (I completely get it - for $300-400, BOM cuts need to be made somewhere). Also kind of cheesy but I like the labeled wire wrap the unit comes with - very helpful.

    Edit2:
    This sounds a little less compressed with 1421 (SE out only) vs with Yggdrasil. Odd b/c 1421 (as DAC only, not counting headphone out) sounds slightly compressed compared to Yggdrasil. However, this combo also retains the relatively clinical sound of the 1421. No, the music doesn't go totally dead or limp with 2 clinical pieces of gear in a row, but you aren't getting much in terms of coloration. Also, the relative I guess "not in your face-ness" and softer feel of 1421 both come through. Minor oddities with some decay on 1421 are still present, but somewhat band-aided by 789 on some songs. On other songs it's just really weird - like it not only got worse, but it sounds really foreign to the song - like someone flat out switched out parts of a track. 1421 as expected is the limiting factor in terms of handling fast music, but not by much (1421 is still good for this, just not as good as 789) So, in other words, the amp does have some DAC synergy, but for the most part, it does more or less hit the "wire with gain" target.

    After listening with low, mid, and high gain on Auteur I prefer medium gain. Not a huge variation in sound, I have limited experience with adjustable gain amps, but the listening experience here roughly matches other the amps.

    Conclusion: Not a bad amp, but still not for me. Biggest problem is the amount of compression. Would prefer CTH from mass drop. ZDT Jr is good too but I preferred CTH over ZDT Jr for preference reasons. Another unreleased product (and IDK if/when it will be released) that I heard at a meet in the past would go here too. If we go SS at similar price levels, aside from A3 and rhead, I would also prefer the sound of some iFi stuff and the Chord Mojo over this (I no longer have mine due to strange intermittent noise issues that developed in the unit) - note that all stuff listed here is b/c it's common / popular, not b/c of absolute best / absolute preference. There is more stuff I could compare and contrast, but that's not the point of this review.

    RESERVED FOR MORE LATER
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  18. smileraidcall

    smileraidcall New

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    I am currently using Mjolnir 2 and THX-789. Both feeding from Gungnir Multibit using XLR cable. I actually do enjoy the 789 as it is a good complement with the Mjolnir 2. Both offered a different signature. THX 789 is slightly brighter and more sterile, while Mjolnir provided more bass slam, warmth and vocals are one step closer to me. Both amp have great deapth in the stage.

    Switch between two amps with such a different signature actually let me understand my music to a better degree. A leaner tone on the 789 allowed me to analyze the track more easily, then I swtich back for MJ2 for a more relaxed listening experience and picking up the same amount of detail. I didntI don't see the THX 789 performing poorly in particular areas, instead, I see it as a matter of personal preference and particular fuction. However, for casual listening I generally like to pair the THX789 with warmer headphones and those with copper cable (third party cable). While pairing the Mjolnir 2 with any headphone and both copper and silver cable.

    THX789 provided a good amount of detail and a good amount of separation, I don't really feel especially lacking in any areas compared to MJ2, maybe only in the bass slam. 789 is a very decent amp at it's price together with other Schiit alternatives. 789 is definitely a step-up for the headphone amp ecosystem.

    Headphone used: Utopia, HE1000, Clear, HD6xx
    I use the THX 789 especially for headphones terminated to 6.3 single-ended output because the single-ended output on the Mjolnir 2 sounded a bit compressed, lack in width.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  19. mk801

    mk801 Almost "Made"

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    After ASR and Zeos hyped these to death, I saw them on fleabay for $900 over a year ago when MD had production issues. Insane then and even moreso in hindsight.
     
  20. adeadcrab

    adeadcrab Acquaintance

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    I do the same. With the Focal Elex, the midrange is just too lean and sterile. I have a preamp between the Soekris 1421 and 789 with a swappable opamp socket. I have found great success alternating from Burson Vivid (clean neutral sound) to Burson Classic (warm tilt) when using the Elex and Grado headphones. A tube amp is on the way to complement the 789. Whatever gripes anyone may have with the 789, the amp market is a much stronger than it was just a few years ago.
     

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