Mechanical Keyboards...

Discussion in 'Geek Cave: Computers, Tablets, HT, Phones, Games' started by aufmerksam, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. Stapsy

    Stapsy Friend

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    Oh man that is such a tough question. I think it is getting down to semantics and personal preference, but the MX brown switches feel like they rebound faster. That is entirely unscientific and completely subjective opinion. It could be bias related to the hard "click" sound of the MX switches vs the dull "thock" of the Topre's. I do find that the louder click of the MX switches gives me better audible feedback and rhythm when typing, which does improve speed.

    That being said the difference is going to be minimal if at all. I will say the Topre switches are overall smoother and have less side to side play than the MX switches I have tried, which some people may feel lets them type faster.
     
  2. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    The actuation point on a Topre switch is around 1/5th[citation needed] of the travel distance to bottoming out (so less than 1mm on a 4mm switch) because of the capacitive nature of the switch as opposed to a rubber dome (which needs to be bottomed out completely) or a Cherry switch which tends to actuate at around halfway.. The keys also spring back very quickly (faster than any mechanical I tried at least) and so in theory yes, you should be able to type faster on a Topre.

    FWIW I tried the Novatouch and they felt too similar to Cherry Reds, I'm not sure if it was the stems being different or something else with the keyboard. (This was when I was originally looking into jumping on the Topre train).
     
  3. Jh4db536

    Jh4db536 Friend

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    RF87U at home though i might buy the 104U because i am a spreadsheet monkey after all and i really need the 10key
    Matias Tactile Pro 4 at work (Alps) it's loud, but im 15% faster on it (based on 'Typeracer' sessions)
    The reset on the Matias is much faster which allows it to be faster and lighter if needed. My favorite is the TP4 just because it works the best and has extra and optimized keys for excel. The topre is just nice but i could live without it.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  4. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    I've used my fair share of mechanical keyboards with different switches. In my opinion, the differences people describe for switches are mostly blown out of proportion. Make no mistake that there are certainly very subtle differences in feel, but I've found that when I've grown accustomed to a keyboard (including regular membrane ones and very low profile apple keyboards), that my typing remained around 100wpm with about a 5-8% typo rate. No keyboard and/or switch type performed better than the other in my experience, and that the preference for mechanical over membrane keyboards is more a matter of being quaint than seeking performance. I think most can agree that the sound of a mechanical keyboard being typed on is very pleasing.

    That said, my preference (for typing and gaming) is cherry mx red, and I currently use the 10keyless Corsair K60. I really prefer 10keyless form factors over full length keyboards, because it keeps my two hands closer together when gaming, which I find more comfortable.

    I have a tendency to press space before I finish typing out full words in every keyboards I've used. I don't know how to correct that really.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. ahn_anon

    ahn_anon New

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    I've owned a ton of (read: nine) different cherry MX keyboards in a variety of switches in order to find the best switch for me. Like the above poster (TMRaven) mentioned, I found that all cherry MX switches felt pretty similar. I didn't hate any, but no cherry MX switch surpassed the first Cherry MX switch I tried (brown).

    Finally, after a year+ of shopping through countless (read: nine) keyboards and thick PBT keycap sets, I give Topre a shot. It's not love at first feel... I was underwhelmed at first, thinking it was not at all worth the hype. But with a little time and an open heart, I feel the qualities of Topre that make it so spectacular.

    Good question, friendo. Typing quickly on any keyboard is a matter of practice. However, I think Topre switches are engineered to encourage faster typing. This is why:
    • A Topre switch's peak weight is at the beginning of the keystroke
    • A Topre switch pushes back up harder than a similarly weighted Cherry MX Switch

    Topre's peak weight is at the beginning of the keystroke

    What does this mean? It means that after you begin pressing the switch and get over the minimum actuation force, the key feels like it's falling by itself the rest of the way, almost as if it's sucking your finger down with it.

    Topre pushes back up harder / firmer 'reset' force
    What does this mean? It means that after you're done pressing the button, the topre switch springs your finger back up so it's ready to move to the next keypress.

    The combination of these two effects make Topre switches feel like they're designed to make you type faster, because they accelerate the process of pushing a switch down and 'resetting' your finger. This, at least, encourages me to develop a rhythm with my typing.

    On top of this, if what I read on the internet is accurate, Topre switches were designed to sound pleasant to the ear... or was it the HHKB Pro 2 that was designed to sound nice, and used Topre switches because of it? Point is, it Topre sounds so much nicer than Cherry MX (subjective!).

    After discovering the love and life that is the good feeling of oneness with cup rubber, I have given away all (but 1 [broken switch ;(]) of my cherry mx keyboards and have... somehow... amassed a bunch of Topre keyboards. Unlike Cherry MX keyboards, which... once you try one, you've tried them all (especially after you get a set of your favorite PBT keycaps that you will use with the keyboard anyway, and the keycaps determine like 70% of the feel of a cherry MX keyboard (assuming same switch), each brand and model of Topre keyboard feels and/or sounds quite different!

    Eventually, I ended up trying a 55g Topre Keyboard, and BLAMMO -- there it is. My Grail. I knew that if I would know it if I felt it, and I pressed on, no matter how long or expensive the journey got. It was all worth it in the end. But it wasn't all about what you get in the end, it's about the journey and the friends you meet along the way.

    ... Please send help...

    In all honesty, I think the Topre 55g is the perfect switch. It has everything amazing I wrote about Topre above, but just a bit (10g) stiffer. So it takes a little more force to get the switch falling, but once it reaches that point, it still collapses with the same ferocity, and I think it pushes your finger back up with even more vigor. Yummy. I think it makes the switch feel more refined. It's a shame the 45g is the default over 55g.

    True story. The End.

    Pics:

    Realforce 87u Anniversary Edition 55g
    [​IMG]



    Latest addition, HHKB Professional BT. This one's space bar sounds amazing, a sound effect second only to the L-shift on a HHKB Type-S
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  6. ahn_anon

    ahn_anon New

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    Sorry for the double-post, let me know if I'm breaking any rules

    Hey Jh4, do you ever use the numlock function on the Realforce 87u? I always thought that it's a well-thought feature, and I'm pretty sure it's a feature unique to the Realforce 87u. But I don't spend enough time entering numbers to get the most use out of it. Is the virtual implementation of a numpad still not close enough to the real thing in real-world practice?
     
  7. Jh4db536

    Jh4db536 Friend

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    i tried to use the numlock feature on the 87U, but i personally could not get used to it. I need the real thing whether it's a 23U or a 104U. I'm just used to the numpad keys being off on the far right and not staggered. I thought it might be more appropriate for gaming (since it is a Real 10-key output) but i found myself going back to the familiar matias which is pretty much traditional layout.

    Nice modifier keyset btw. I haven't seen very many RF custom keys.
     
  8. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.
     
  9. ahn_anon

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    Thank you for the reply. Makes sense.

    Actually, those are the stock keycaps that come with a Realforce 10th year Anniversary Edition 87u keyboard, which I believe were originally released in 2013.
     
  10. Vent

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  11. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Can't seem to find any Topre locally. How's TKL switch on the CM keyboards?
    It looks to have similar features, capacitive sensor with some mechanic action.

    [​IMG]

    Edit:
    @chakku ''FWIW I tried the Novatouch and they felt too similar to Cherry Reds''
    I missed that, thanks.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  12. Jh4db536

    Jh4db536 Friend

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    If your going to get a topre get the real thing otherwise better off to stick with the cherry mx (the switch is not end game). Imo what makes the real force special overall is the made in Japan build quality including the switches and caps ... There's no imitating that with the CM (upgraded metal frame, PBT keycaps, etc). You can easily get the topre on massdrop but you have to wait a little.

     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  13. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    Anyone got any impressions on the Leopold FC660C? People on the net are saying the black FC660C feels a lot like 55g although it is rated at 45g.
     
  14. ahn_anon

    ahn_anon New

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    Leopold FC660C was my first ever Topre board. I confirm that, for whatever reason, it feels like the switches are heavier than other 45g switches, and because of that, they feel a little better to me than the (seemingly) lighter switches on the Realforce and HHKB. However, they are not as heavy as actual 55g Topre.

    The Coolermaster Novatouch's switches and PCB are actually produced by Topre. The PCB says 'topre' on them (reddit source). The switches are bona-fide Topre, just with a proprietary MX compatible stem. They are not called Topre probably for marketing or copyright reasons.

    I do not own a Novatouch so I can't comment confidently on how they compare to a "real" Topre board. I have tried a Novatouch briefly at a convention (Pax east many years ago when the Novatouch was still new), and from what I recall (from a noisy, crowded sub-minute demo session), they felt pretty similar to a Realforce. I'd wager that any difference in feel is due to keycaps, as the Novatouch comes with pretty horrible thin ABS keycaps.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  15. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Argh. Just went through my 4th (count 'em - 4!!) Matias keyboard in the last year. I think the latest one is still under warranty, and I'll probably ask for yet another warranty replacement, but this is getting ridiculous. This time it's the "i" key. And while I type for a living, it's not like I abuse keyboards.

    Looks like hardcoded Mac mechanical keyboards are pretty limited. I'm not getting a Das, so I think I'll go with the Unicomp Spacesaver which has the Ultra Classic buckling springs. Looks like feedback in this thread is fairly good, but if other recommendations exist please do let me know!!
     
  16. fishski13

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    I picked up a Disco with Browns recently from: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/ . My 8 and 6 yr olds love playing SuperTuxKart and the RGB keyboard has cemented me as the coolest Dad in the Universe, albeit temporarily no doubt.

    This is my first mech keyboard, but my piss poor hunt and peck typing skills have improved. I feel like I'm playing a piano more or less with the tactile feel, more confident in my keystrokes vs sloppy mish-mash.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
  17. dubiousmike

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    I've been using a CM quickfire stealth (with mx browns) for the last couple of years at the office, and this morning, I decided to try adding O-ring dampers to all the keys. As I had hoped, the dampers eat much of the impact of the keystrokes as they bottom out and much of the noise - while preserving, for me at least, the benefits of typing on a mechanical. My day one impression is that this is a huge improvement over the stock board. Does anyone else use these or an analogous product? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HPQQLXM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
  18. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Yes, I am using them now in a new WASD with Browns. I like them. I took a few off to compare, and I actually preferred the feel with them installed. They offered two O-ring thicknesses, and I chose the thinner of the two.
     
  19. Vent

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    I use o rings and prefer them. My keyboard has brown switches.
     
  20. drez

    drez Acquaintance

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    For now I have settled on a Poker 2 with aluminium case - a 60% keyboard with plate mount PCB with red switches. It took me a long time to get used to the 60% layout and the many key combinations needed. I quite like the red switches now over browns I was using previously.

    The thing with this keyboard is it has a very sharp feedback to it. I might try one of the wooden cases to see if they have a softer feedback but still well damped feel.

    previously I have used:

    -Razer Blackwidow (blues)
    -Vortex TKL with PBT keycaps (browns)
    -Filco Ninja TKL (browns)
    -Code keybord (clears)

    Never tried Topre. For now I think I am used to the linear switches, and don't like the brown or blue switches anymore.

    If anyone wants to buy one of the above send me a PM with an offer. They are just sitting around in a box.
     

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