Metrum Acoustics Onyx (balanced Dac) and Jade (balanced Dac + Pre)

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by sacredgates, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,218
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Palo Alto
    Home Page:
    Yes, Metrum gear is expensive. I have the Onyx now because I had another not cheap R2R DAC (Holo Spring), was able to demo the Onyx at home for a while, and ended up liking it better given the rest of my headphone chain.

    If you skip MQA, there's a nice Danish R2R DAC that has the added benefit of a good USB receiver, to my ears indistinguishable from S/PDIF coax. It has detailed reviews elsewhere on this site.
     
  2. sacredgates

    sacredgates Audio-Technica's high priest

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Black Forest Germany
    Home Page:
    Granted, Metrum Acoustics is pricewise more along the lines of most big brands. Both Schiit and Soekris for example will offer you more for the money; but that doesn´t help when they might not exactly be the sound signature you are looking for.

    @earnmyturns / @AdamFrandsen: I own the Soekris 1541 and I happen to like the dac section a lot. But it is a very unique sound on its´own and quite different from the Metrum Acoustic house sound.

    Both Schiit multibit dacs and the Soekris do upsampling and filtering; Schiit has a bit more magic sauce in it, whereby the Soekris follows more common paths. Both won´t offer mqa unfoldment.
    Metrum Acoustic dacs are NOS and the brand supports mqa (mqa module option), if that is important to you.
    As @rlow stated the differences you hear with mqa might have to do with different masters, or you may be sensitive to the "watermark" problem when listening to digital non mqa file streams.

    Soekris 1541 actually sounds quite analytical, whilst avoiding becoming harsh. The metrum dacs are more smooth, more organic. The entry level models way too much to my taste. But things get interesting from Onyx/Jade onwards. And Ambre will offer I2S connection. As has been said before, USB implementation is not Metrum´s strong point (whereas both Soekris 1541 and Schiit Gungnir multibit are good with USB). When I had the Amethyst here on a loaner tour USB really sucked and no way I could live with that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  3. NDonchev

    NDonchev New

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    Hi guys!

    I'm trying to decide what DAC to buy for my headphone system. I have the Sennheiser HD800S and just got an Violectric v281 Amp. At this point I'm using the Fiio X3 II DAP as a DAC. I was a bit sceptical on how much noticeable difference can a DAC make, but several people on other forums assured me it is important to get a better DAC for my setup.

    I read a lot and I'm currently thinking about buying an Metrum Onyx or Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil. Basically, I want to get end-game DAC. Problem is, I don't have a option to audition the DACs without travelling around Europe.

    By reading this thread and others I got even more confused as there are some somewhat contradictory opinions. Judging from this detailed comparison between Pavane and Yggdrasil it seems I would like the Onyx better (as it should be close to the Pavane sound). At the same time @rlow's detailed comparisons here are very different saying that the Onyx has a way less extended soundstage then Gungnir Multibit and I presume Yggdrasil, also. I don't think I want to sacrifice soundstage and separation if it is so much worse on the Onyx.

    Unfortunately, I don't have much experience with DACs. Anyway, I think I will enjoy the most a musical, engaging DAC with wide soundstage, good instrument separation and detail retrieval. Also, with accurate timbre and realistic sound. This led me to this thread.

    So, Metrum Onyx or Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil? I guess Onyx is the riskier choice as it's sound is more characteristic R2R NOS sound. Also some have said that the USB of the Onyx is not good, so buying a separate converting device costs additional money and then the price of the Onyx comes close to that of an Yggdrasil (in Europe at least). As for the Gungnir Multibit, I'm surprised that some people say the prefer it to the Yggdrasil. I know it's a matter of taste, but anyway... On top of that, I have read some contradictory opinions on the Gungnir Multibit, too. Some say it's very warm and others that it's just a touch warm.

    Which one do you think is the best choice? Maybe at the end, I will be happy with either of those, but I'm trying to at least make an informed decision. Returning the product in 14 days period is an option, but with the Onyx they require to pay 10% fee when returning the unit.

    EDIT: I just saw that Onyx price of €2,099 is excluding VAT, so actual price is exactly the same as Yggdrasil's. And if I have to buy USB converter it makes it more expensive then the Yggdrasil. A comparison between the two will be nice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  4. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,218
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Palo Alto
    Home Page:
    I own both Onyx (headphone system) and Yggdrasil A2 (speaker system). What @rlow says about the Onyx matches well my impressions. Its "dense" tonality pairs well with the tube hybrid headphone amps I've been using since last year. The smaller soundstage is not as much of an issue with headphones. For my speaker system, though, the Yggdrasil A2 is a better match. I've never heard the Gungnir A2, but if I was shopping for a speaker DAC and I did not want to pay as much as Yggdrasil or Onyx, it would be very high on my list from all that I've read on this forum and personal communication with someone I trust.
     
  5. bengo

    bengo Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Divisive Kingdom
    Home Page:
    Reading between the lines of a few impressions/comparisons I've read, I think Schiit DACs may do better on 3D cues and staging on speakers. With headphones I wouldn't consider it a factor. Here's my own comparison Pavane L2 vs Yggdrasil A1 to add more fuel to the fire...
     
  6. AdamFrandsen

    AdamFrandsen New

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Denmark
    I am having a hard time destinguishing between the models. I have been searching for used offers, and found a few for the Pavane level 1. When you go to the Metrum website and purchase the Pavane from new, domyou get the level 1 or 3? And what are the main differences? Thanks in advance
     
  7. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

    Staff Member Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,145
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Exit stage left....
    the main (and well documented) difference is Pavane 1 has DAC1 chips, and when upgrading to level 3 there are more DAC2 chips in each channel. Pavane 1 isn't sold on their website last time I checked.

    ps. SBAF isn't here to do your homework. do research - these are not time sensitive decisions.
     
  8. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    The short answer is try and find a Pavane L2. Good luck, I've been looking for awhile.
     
  9. AdamFrandsen

    AdamFrandsen New

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Denmark
    Lol - whatever dude
     
  10. data.noodle

    data.noodle Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2018
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    NYC
    no offense, but if you're even considering a teak dac, metrum dacs are probably not for you. i personally love my onyx and it's my main dac (w/ a rag and hp-1), but maybe check out the adi-2 or something a bit more straightforward.
     
  11. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    Have had Onyx and Gungnir A1 in the house for a week now and feel like I have a decent grasp of what the pros and cons of each are in my speaker system. Preferences are in my signature but to be less cheeky and clear, I like an expansive stage, visceral bass and slam, and a top end that doesn't make me wince. Lots of crappy dacs out there will make highs and especially female voices do this for me, with an over-accentuated 'shhh' or 'tsss' in the name of proclaiming "air" -- I f'ing hate this (neither of these dacs are to that extent btw). So with that, here's the story...

    Chain: DigiOne Sig-LPS -> Coax -> DACS -> Freya -> KT88 amp -> Tyler Acoustic's take on the Seas Thor.

    Why I like the Onyx:
    • Voices and instruments simply sound more real and weighty
    • Simply comes across more delicate, less showy but not too laid back in the stage where the music isn't engaging

    Why I like Gungnir A1:
    • Layering and separation in spades
    • Bass is much more textured, less rounded and more visceral

    Depending on the music, I could listen to either. The reality is that the Schiit dacs sound much more separated/layered and technical, but I feel a result of this is slightly over-accentuated mids/highs that highlight this better, but when it gets really high that it just pushes it too far. The Onyx is simply more musically engaging for me but I do find its bass much more round, less slam and slightly more blobby stage. I personally did not find that the stage was that much smaller than Gungnir, but it is there. With headphones I found that Onyx was further L/R but Gungnir was less L/R and more depth pushing things out in front of your head.

    To insert some audiophool terminology in this specific comparison, the Schiit is more technical/analytical while the Metrum is more musical. With Schiit I feel like I can see into the recording more, get a sense of the venue/space but I focus more on "wow I never heard that slight ting-thing in the background before" vs. Metrum being "here's the main voice, isn't it f'ing fantastic?" For better or worse, I can see myself obsessing less about gear and more about music with Metrum.

    End of the day, Schiit is more upfront, showy and initially impressive. Metrum is more laid back, easy to kick it and listen to despite her less than perfect technicalities. To put another way, the Schiit might be a supermodel that you're dying to take home, but then you take her home and realize her stellar bolt-on boobs are not a long-term feel for you, but someone else will be more than happy with that.

    So what do I do now. I love the Gungnir bass and spatial qualities but love the Onyx for its timbre and engagement. Haven't decided yet but I really want to hear Pavane, but less eager to hear Yggdrasil A2.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  12. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Likes Received:
    7,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
    Sounds similar to what I found with them as well. Actually, Gungnir Multibit A2 gets closer in terms of weight and density through the mids to the Onyx (definitely not equal, but closer). And it has even more layering and separation than the A1, which as you said is already impressive. I found the Gungnir Multibit A2 tonally closest to the Onyx between the Gungnir Multibit A1, A2 and Yggdrasil A2. And it sounds a bit cleaner and quieter than the A1 as well. So the A2 might be the ticket if you can find one - but not sure.

    And I agree, I would LOVE to hear the Pavane. But the price...ugh.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  13. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    You could demo one, you'll just have to pay shipping both ways.
     
  14. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Likes Received:
    7,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
    Nah, if I know I’ll never buy, not worth the cost. The insurance alone would be insane. Unless someone dumps one on CAM for a steal, or one of my couple local dealers picks up the Metrum line, not going to happen. And I’m ok with that. Onyx is as high as I would ever spend for even a recent used DAC. Otherwise I’ll likely wait for the next gen versions to come out and hopefully the Onyx level Dac will contain more of the supposed Pavane magic.
     
  15. Roman

    Roman Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Moscow
    I used to have Gungnir Multibit A2 for some time and loved it. But NOS nervosa forced me to buy Onyx. I initially tried to compare both while having both DACs at home and then sold Gungnir just because I don't like collecting gear and more important I don't have enough space. I'm not experienced in audio terms but I have the same feeling as you. On some tracks Onyx is wonderful but sometimes I feel that closed sound stage and really miss that layering and holographic presentation of A2.

    There were some personal decision factors involved also when choosing which DAC to keep - size and Gungnir clicks. I'm trying to be compact as much as possible so Onyx is better on my desk. The other reason was Gungnir clicks when changing sample rate. I have mixed content in my audio library and clicks quickly become a concern to me while listening. On top of that I use my DAC as my primary audio output from PC and that makes things even worse. But all those factors are just my personal bees.

    Gungnir in the form factor of Bitfrost and without clicks would most likely be my end game DAC.
     
  16. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,218
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Palo Alto
    Home Page:
    I own both Onyx and Yggdrasil A2. Onyx for my headphone system(s) (currently juggling an amp cost escalation: Lyr 3 < Apex Peak < Phonitor XE), Yggdrasil for the speaker system (Hegel H360+KEF Reference 1+REL T7i). Your impressions of the Onyx (thanks for the report!) match mine. However, the Yggdrasil A2 sounds to me quite different from your description of the Gungnir A1. What you like about the G A1 I also find on the Y A2, but I don't find the upper mids/highs overly emphasized/showy. I love the Onyx's somewhat more liquid and romantic tone, perfect for long sessions on headphones (jazz double bass, sax, kick drums, guitar), and it pairs beautifully with the tube-hybrid amps I've been using the last year (although the Phonitor XE pairing has more grip, maybe too much for working along with). But the Y A2 is ultimately the more realistic when listening to well-recorded ensemble works at the levels I experience in live acoustic music venues.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  17. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,268
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Buy a modi MB and tap its DAC feed to the onyx to benefit from Schiit’s filter! Best of both worlds :D
     
  18. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    @earnmyturns Comparing Onyx and Yggdrasil A2 in your stereo system would be great!
     
  19. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,218
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Palo Alto
    Home Page:
    Yes, been meaning to try it but I've been too busy doing other things and listening to music. One day when I have an idle weekend...
     
  20. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    It'd be a valuable data point for the community that's for sure.

    I A/Bed last night except with some RCA grey glass tubes in the gain stage of Freya (vs. Sylvanias before). Both dacs are a bit more liquid and the stage spreads out a bit more (which I like and welcomed with Onyx). These tubes muddy up the bass and round things so the visceral authority and texture I got before from Gungnir wasn't really there as much. With the RCAs in, they took a bit of the edge off up top of Gungnir, and provided more body to voices. Overall Onyx seems to agree with me more despite not being as technical which just errks me -- it's the same thing I noticed with MCTH vs. Valhalla 2. I can only equate this to preferences, like knowingly driving a slower car but it's just so much of a riot to drive! The Onyx reminds me of playing my old Mesa/Boogie tube amp with the Gibson vs. a Fender and Peavy combo.

    While playing some old Metallica records, the heaviness of it all was better with Onyx while the clarity of the bass guitar was much better on Gungnir. Cymbals and chimes surprisingly had a lot of shimmer with Onyx but does it in a tactful way.

    Of what I can gather going up to Pavane, it's the spatial queues that option up a bit. My only concern is that the bass definition stays the same. It's really my only complaint about the Onyx, the slam, authority and texture of bass is painfully lacking while directly comparing to Gungnir. Everything else about Onyx I'd happily take over Gungnir.

    Now I'm wondering if getting rid of my DSJ was a good idea after all. From my fuzzy recollection, bass definition was never an issue, nor were things being too clinical. The richness of Onyx sticks out in my mind as a key attribute over anything I've heard and I think that is a huge appeal/"in the feels" factor for my preferences.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019

Share This Page