Monoprice Monolith Liquid Platinum Headphone Amplifier by Alex Cavalli

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Vtory, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. nickwin

    nickwin Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I just switched over to balanced and its a lot more of a difference than I anticipated. It sounds fuller timbre wise, it doesn't really have the thinness in the mid-bass I experienced with the SE output. The timbre actually sounds really good. Im still trying to wrap my head around what Im hearing but the soundstage seems quite different too. My initial impression is the stage from the balanced out doesn't seem to wrap around my head as much and has a little less precise placement, but it sounds bigger and more fleshed out. Weird.

    This is my first experience using a balanced cable on my HE500s so Im not exactly sure what's responsible for the differences Im hearing. Can switching to a balanced cable change the sound at all on its own (vs single ended)? Im using this cable (but with old style Hifiman connectors): https://www.venusaudio.net/product-page/6-foot-balanced-cable-for-audeze-or-zmf-headphones Its made from Canare L-4E5C.

    On a side note, with the balanced out Im back to listening in 8:30-10 o'clock volume range with my HE500s.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  2. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thanks for the bridge recommendation. For Dante and interface questions, I'm going to start a new thread, which is why I haven't responded yet. I've been doing research on Dante networks in my spare time.

    I'll try one out and I probably will keep the Source as it's so useful for routing, powered pre, and headamp functions as you said. The converters are just a bonus.
     
  3. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,426
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The balanced output is giving your 500s significantly more power, which is something the 500s enjoy. This is how the LP is supposed to sound. The SE output is only there for convenience and is pretty awful with the 500s.

    I've been borrowing a pair of 500s the past few days and think it that the LP is a good pairing. I agree that the soundstage is pretty large but that instrument placement isn't all that precise. But, the large stage gives you a good feel for the venue the music was recorded in. It has an addictive quality to it and really shines with the right recordings.

    Going back to the HD650s sacrifices some staging but makes for a more coherent/accurate sound, overall.

    Having owned both headphones for a long period of time, I feel that the LP is simply showing these headphones for what they are.

    I'll take the 650s for my preferences, which wasn't the case a few years ago when I was listening on an inferior setup.
     
  4. sheldaze

    sheldaze Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    May 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    977
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Land of Merriment
    Intro

    I’m going to step onto a limb, and hope it does not break under me. The truth is, this is the third time I’ve started to try to write a review of the Platinum. I’m still not sure how to explain what I hear. Better than the Vali 2 and Massdrop x CTH - that’s affirmative. Not as good as the Aficionado, Balancing Act, or Zana Deux Super - that’s also true. But this leaves a swath of options between. How’s it sound relative DNA Sonett 2, EC BW2 and S7, ECP T3? I had scheduled a meet event, where I planned to compare it direct these and the OOP Crimson.

    Then, I heard a bad electrical sound during the initial Platinum setup - I had followed the steps. The amplifier was not powered on, however there was a visible spark between the power cable and the main amplifier body. Lesson learned, I should connect amplifier to power cable, then power cable to power supply, and last power supply to power. Reverse these steps to take apart. The amplifier ran perfectly for 2 months. However, when I last turned it on, there was a similar pop sound (from the same area, where the amplifier connects to the power cable). This was when I pressed the power button on the front of the amplifier. Nothing was disassembled. It was still plugged in, as it had been during the previous listening sessions. However, the amplifier did not start its power-on cycle. As I write this, I cannot go back to reference its sound. Aww...snap.

    Basics

    No problems with the packing, and I dislike that we’re talking about packing. If there’s damage, that’s an issue. Packing was good. Amplifier arrived in pristine condition. Tubes - I do wish the tubes inserted flush against the surface, as they do on DNA and EC amplifiers. However, I learned how to “rock” tubes when I owned Valhalla (1 and 2). Tubes are not an issue. Heat is not an issue. Power-on cycle works effectively to prevent damage to the headphone. There’s a mild “tick” sound sent to the headphone, if the headphone is plugged in. I’ve heard much worse. There are complaints about the gain. I personally do not own any headphones that could benefit from its high gain. However, the gain was sufficiently low for use with more sensitive headphones, such as Utopia. It’s not an IEM, but I had more trouble with Utopia on Cavalli Liquid Gold, due to high gain. A friend suggested I use the unbalanced output. But the topology of the Gold was meant for balanced, and it was too loud for my listening. The potentiometer was also more audible (left-right balance was bad on the Gold), so I pushed the volume higher, until left-right equalized but then volume was too high. I can use Utopia on Platinum. I owned Glass too - problem I had with it was tube noise. I’ve used the EH stock tubes, JJ, and Reflektor Holy Grail 6N23P SWGP on Platinum. I heard no tube noise. Summary, I had problems with $3500 - $4000 amplifiers. I had no problems on Platinum.

    Audio

    I next wanted to talk about the audio quality step-up, but this is also where the review becomes a little complex. Just dive in - I don’t know why people on SBAF are posting, suggesting the Platinum is not worthy of Gungnir as a source. Gungnir Multibit A2 is the source I used. And in certain parts of the frequency, the Platinum was clearer than BW2. While I enjoyed the tonality of the Massdrop x CTH, it was sufficient to drive that amplifier from a Bifrost. Contrast that with Massdrop x EC ZDT Jr., which I only felt I understood once I connected it to a better source. I had a friend stop by once, compare the ZDT Jr. and Valhalla 2. Unfortunately, I was using Bifrost as the source, and there wasn’t much difference. Platinum is ZDT-level clarity, and benefits from a good source. I don’t have much to say about the sound. There are many excellent posts that already describe the laid back, smooth sound of the Platinum. It is not as laid back as Gold or Glass. It probably fits between BW2 and S7. EC is known for dynamics, though BW2 is the least dynamic. Cavalli is known for being laid back, though Platinum is the most dynamic I have heard. I thought the sound was good with the stock EH. But I also thought the sound was a little shrill in a certain part of the frequency. The SWGP did not have the shrill, high frequency issue. But it lost the balance, highs to lows, frequency balance - keep in mind my source is relatively lean in the bass. So most my listening was through JJ. Last part of this section is a personal perspective. The character of the Platinum is enjoyable - the speed, clarity, and smooth nature are better for my taste than the BW2. For certain music, this was my go to.

    Deeper Listen

    This last section is the hardest to explain. Also, this is the part of the review where I will try to describe things, which if you have not heard for yourself, may be difficult to perceive. Fundamentally, the Platinum flaw comes down to decay and stage. The initial “pluck” or “thump”, origin of the sound, is quite clear. One evening, I fired up the ZDS, BA, and Platinum. The delta was too big to make any sense of it. Platinum was a pinpoint note. ZDS and BA provided a full instrument, with an initial sound, a view how the musician was playing the instrument, and usually the echo of the room bouncing back, allowing the listener to locate the instrument and the size of the room, and expression of the music. The setups were not identical:

    SD9200 > COAX > Yggdrasil A2 > XLR > BA > RCA > ZDS > 1/4" phono > Utopia
    BA > 4-pin XLR > HD800S
    DVD-V7400 > COAX > Gungnir Multibit A2 > XLR > LP > 4-pin XLR > HD800S


    The next time I created a fairer test, Gungnir Multibit A2 as the only source, feeding LP, BW2, and S7. I also played just one song, to focus on what I had been trying to describe imprecisely before. The song was the first track from the Chopin Project, Ólafur Arnalds, Alice Sara Ott, track titled Verses:


    1. First violin. Check.
    2. Bass instrument. Not as clear on the Platinum (this compared to the BW2).
    3. Second violin on the left. It is difficult to tell it is separate from the primary violin, as these two sounds continue to play, simultaneously.
    4. Third violin on the right. This is when the sound, between each violin, truly started to confuse me.
    When adding S7 to the mix of amplifiers, the delta was moar. The slightly lower dynamics and less clear micro-dynamics of the BW2 made back-and-forth comparison between BW2 and Platinum difficult. The improvement of BW2 had more to do with how each sound had a natural decay, thus allowing my ears to trace the continuous location of each instrument. Adding S7 was just “moar better” in every way. My partner even suggested some instruments just did not play audibly until later in the song, when played through the Platinum.

    The following is an extreme example. As a piano player, I once tried the digital pianos of the mid-90s. They were physically similar to their analog counterparts (the keyboard), but they had a problem. They could only play a set number of notes. Two algorithms allowed these to “persuade” the listener that they were hearing a real piano. One was to retain the last n-notes. Thus by the time note n+1 was played, the listener should no longer need to hear the first note. Another solution was to stop playing the quietest note. Let’s say note 6 was played more quietly than notes 1-5. It would be the first note to decay, and would simply stop playing sound when note n+1 was struck. This is similar to what I heard in the song through the Platinum. Problem is n was at most 1. It became more like a digital representation of the three violin sounds, where each was competing for an on-off primary-only sound, and the quieter sound ceased to play. It would show up, from nowhere, and disappear, and show up again, and disappear again. It was confusing.

    When I first compared BW2 to other amplifiers, it was for a Head-Fi review of the Simaudio Moon NEO 230HAD - the secret was the solid state was the BW2 and the tube was the LTA microZOTL2. In that review, I made a lot of noise. But one crucial piece of signal, which surprised me, was how deep into the music I could hear through the BW2. Sure it played loud, but it also continued to play clearly when the music became soft. I used track 6, from the Immortal Beloved soundtrack, Piano Trio No 5 In D Major, Op. 70, No 1, Ghost, featuring Emanuel Ax, Pamela Frank, and Yo-Yo Ma, and wrote the following in the review:

    Did I discern something from the roughly two minutes of introduction? Absolutely, yes. Though there is no change I can make to a solid state amplifier, I found my own to be quite sublime. I could turn up the volume without discomfort, but the volume I used was interestingly the lowest of the three. It has the most clarity such that even at the lowest decibel output, the sounds are smooth and easily heard. The strings do not disappear off into the blackness of the background, but continue to play.​

    Outro

    I would still like to compare the remaining functional amplifiers, to include Crimson, BW2, and S7. But for now, I can only summarize that the Platinum is a cracking-good amplifier. I hope whatever issue I had is uncommon. I heard it as a significant upgrade from the Massdrop x CTH. Though one must understand, they are stepping into the realm of limits to sonic gain from higher cost. CTH and Platinum have a similar character, as one might expect from two amplifiers by the same designer. More clarity. More power from the Platinum. No hum. Small footprint. One could argue it is still mid-grade, as I do not hear the same control, decay, space and depth perception from Platinum as I do from the better OOP amplifiers. At the same time, I would argue Platinum is a good step up from entry.

    TL;DR

    Good - Excellent tone, step-up in resolution, more power
    Bad - Less stage, less control, unnatural note decay (relative OOP amplifiers)
     
  5. nickwin

    nickwin Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    28
    My LP has some play in the volume knob, you can turn it a little either way before it actually starts changing the volume, is anyone else experiencing this? I remember the volume knob on the first unit I got being pretty tight. Its a pretty small amount of play, but with the very high gain it makes it just that much harder to dial in the right volume.

    Another potential problem, the tube sockets aren't perfectly aligned so the tubes almost touch the top cover in one spot (within a fraction of a mm, it looks like its touching). Does anyone foresee this being an issue in the long run?

    I realize these would typically be questions for the manufacturer, but it is Monoprice were talking about...
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  6. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

    Staff Member Pyrate Gearmaster
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Likes Received:
    10,827
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Complex
    1. No, I don't think mine has this trait. The only slight oddity of the pot that I noticed was that it doesn't output any volume until I turn it past about 7:00 (which I believe I read earlier on this thread as an intentional design choice). Granted, the gain does seem high and the knob is a bit sensitive, but I don't personally see this as much of an issue (I don't own any efficient, low-impedance cans, and if I did I'd use a different amp).

    2. It might be an issue if you decide to start rolling tubes and get tubes that are fatter than the stock EH 6922, but this shouldn't pose any issues.
     
  7. Greg121986

    Greg121986 Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    394
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Mine does have a small amount of deadband, or play in the volume knob. It's minimal and I would not worry about it. I would have never noticed if it wasn't pointed out above, resulting in me critically looking at the knob and giving it a test.

    So far my LP is excellent with Focal Clears. The gain is high and I can only use 9 O'Clock volume or less. This is not something that concerns me too much either. It is what it is!

    Sound wise, I am playing around with my Khadas Toneboard right now. I think the stale nature of the well measured Khadas is a good match for the LP so far. The LP is tremendous with balanced input using my Audio-GD NFB7.77 as well. I'm impressed by the expansive sound stage I get with excellent control and detail.

    As I do my best to recall the sound of my former Auralic Taurus MKII with my Focal Clear, I can confirm that the Auralic was a better sound to my ears. It is about 10-15% more of the things I mentioned above as compared to the LP. I am a bit salty that the Monoprice LP cost me $816 shipped. The Auralic can be found used for not much more. However, the LP is the flavor of the month so I was too curious to not try it. I'm happy I went with it because it's a great piece and will bring me joy for at least a few months to come.
     
  8. nickwin

    nickwin Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Just for clarification, are you experiencing the volume issue I mentioned, or what @ChaChaRealSmooth mentioned? ChachaRealSmooth was talking about how there is no sound output for the first few degrees of rotation on the volume knob. Im talking about slop in the knob (I swear this isn't dirty) at anywhere in the rotation, its the same slop at min and max volume.

    FWIW Monoprice doesn't really have tech support, its more "customer support" so Im not sure if its really warranted or not, but between the tube clearance issue and the volume slop in my unit they suggested a return/replacement. They are out of stock until mid April so I guess I have some time to decide. On a side note, Im going to follow the lead of the THX AAA, if anyone wants my LP for a nice fair $2000 just shoot me a PM. Just playing lol.

    EDIT: Thanks for the clarification. I wonder if the slop issue is as simple as a loose screw where the knob meets the pot? That what it feels like. The volume knob on the first LP I got was nice and tight.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  9. Greg121986

    Greg121986 Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    394
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    I have found there to be slop in the movement of the volume knob. The knob will move a tiny amount without any change in the volume knob.

    There is also channel imbalance until 7 O'clock on the knob.
     
  10. runeight

    runeight MOT: Alex Cavalli

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Likes Received:
    279
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Texas
    Hello folks. I'd like to address the possibility that some owners are thinking of using the 4 pin XLR output as a 3 pin TRS by tying two of the pins together as a common ground.

    If you are thinking about doing this DO NOT DO IT. EVER.

    The balanced outputs are two floating outputs with pos and neg phases. Connecting what looks like a 3-wire common ground will short two of the outputs together, one on each channel.

    This will damage the amp and possibly void warranty.
     
  11. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,268
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why would you even try that!?
     
  12. runeight

    runeight MOT: Alex Cavalli

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Likes Received:
    279
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Texas
    My understanding is that some owners, realizing that the Bal out gives better performance than the SE out (and it does) believe that they might harness the Bal out into a singled ended headphone rig.

    At first glance and, perhaps, for someone not thoroughly versed in amp topologies, this might seem possible. But for most balanced amps with direct connected, floating outputs this connects the wrong things to other wrong things.

    Some amps would allow you to do this. For example, if they have transformer coupled outputs. But not fully DC, direct coupled amps like the LP. :D
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    For the same reason people try this:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,637
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    He sold that amp after having serviced for a "warranty" issue. Which I'm sure was totally unrelated...

    ...poor new owner.
     
  15. Dzerh

    Dzerh Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    San Ramon, CA, US
    Do you mean non-matched pair in the front row?
     
  16. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

    Staff Member Pyrate Gearmaster
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Likes Received:
    10,827
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Complex
    Sadly, this was almost me. I'm so glad I checked in with @atomicbob and Dr. Cavalli posted this before I did something real dumb.

    I basically have the equivalent experience/knowledge of a HF rando, so.....XD

    That being said, I'm not sure if this was talked about in this thread, but the Liquid Platinum doesn't change that much in sound from the point that the amp does its self-check and the light turns white to some time warming up. The stage does open a bit and the sound relaxes slightly, but the differences are subtle.
     
  17. likearake

    likearake Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Australia
    Can anyone comment on the LP vs other amps (particularly zdt jr) in a chain with Gungnir Multibit A1 and hd650 and hd800 sbaf mod?

    Zdt Jr is mentioned a few times in thread but not really as better or worse. Is it too close to call / depends on preference at least for the senns?
     
  18. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Holly Springs, NC
    I think the Liquid Platinum is a league above the ZDT Jr.
     
  19. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    Generally better, yes, but not in all ways. LP is certainly very refined and balanced. For high impedance dynamics I think one could make arguments for the ZDT Jr.
     
  20. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,969
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Alamos, NM
    Home Page:

Share This Page