MrSpeakers Ether 2 measurements and thoughts

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by Vtory, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    It seems that Dan and MrS finally achieved acceptable product to product variation. At least the loaner pair and mine look very consistent (small discrepancy still exists but it would be easily accounted for by EARS variation and measuring placements). That's good to know.
     
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  2. brencho

    brencho Loves pumping iron (Moderator)

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    Probably way too early to make that call imo
     
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  3. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    why is Dan so paranoid? is it the only decently tuned unicorn ether2 pair he has?

    good. SBAF shouldn't lose $ when some fanboy scam get's the pair "lost".
     
  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Why are you so mad? Old age getting to you? Sick and tired of @zerodeefex already? :p I know it's because you miss me.

    Maybe at RMAF you could ask Dan about shipping logistics and how many things go missing. (He made me fearful of USPS long before SBAF did.)

    Let's be honest, some of our loaner tours are hairy, have people in them we actually don't know all that well, hold onto things longer than told (of which I am guilty, horribly so), fail to follow repeat directions to use specific companies + insurance + signatures, and are not unknown to end with a product in rough shape. If a manufacturer is worried about their flagship, I get it. It's their call. We could buy it if we really wanted to and then do with it what we will.

    Oh, and if I slipped the Ether 2 on your head without you knowing what it was, you'd love it. :cool:
     
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  5. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Dan has done squat for deserving our help to peddle his wares.

    and I did slip on Ether 2 at RMAF and no, I didn’t love it.
     
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  6. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I could smell your incoming opinion hours before you got near that booth. That's why I said without you knowing what it was.

    Alternatively, we can agree your head is grossly misshapen and can't get a proper seal, which the E2 requires.
     
  7. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    I’m pleased to hear that the Ether 2 seems to be a good headphone. But, perhaps some of us should re-read past posts regarding Mr. Speakers past product problems and reactions to said problems. Just thinking of the old saying “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.” Sorry, but I am cautious at this point.
     
  8. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    Can I ask which thread or what keywords to search for? It seems that there exists a certain hatred toward either mrs or dan. No idea where it came from. Did Dan ruin one of previous sbaf meets (guessing from zerodeefex's comment)? I know one efc measured terrible (according to Hand's result) though.

    Like already posted in the other E2 thread, I've experienced an initial product failure of E2 last November. While it was kinda traumatic to some extent, they were kind and responsive in communicating. They even offered me product return without restocking fee if I don't like the fixed one. So, what are said about them largely contradicted what I actually experienced.
     
  9. brencho

    brencho Loves pumping iron (Moderator)

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    This particular horse has been beaten to death and back again. Interested parties should not be lazy and just look for threads relevant to past mrS headphones and their endless iterations and screwups, with a trail of tears and screwed over customers, and IP theft accusations and offers to buy others mods for their own profit.

    Btw who names a headphone company mrSpeakers... Already making promises you can't keep. Just saying.
     
  10. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    The EARS measurement of the Ether2 kinda reminds me of the old LCD-X measurement. Although I remember not liking the X all that much because its upper midrange seemed super scooped, and treble spikey. It's been a long time since hearing an LCD-X though.
     
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  11. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Apples-to-apples comparison with LCD-X. Flat plate coupler.
    Note: LCD-X measurement was recorded at 88.2kHz sampling rate hence extended D2 measurement.

    Ether 2 Distortion in %
    [​IMG]

    LCD-X Distortion in %
    upload_2019-3-30_22-31-45.png
     
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  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I did measure one of the Ether Flow headphones...I think it was the open one? It was a real oddball. No idea if there was anything wrong with it.

    The loaner Ether Closed from way back when arrive at my door with all of the front damping removed. It was terrifying to listen to. I don't know if it was shipped like that or if a previous borrower messed around and didn't put back to stock.

    It was OK once I took the time to figure out how the stock damping configuration looked and then used additional inserts to taste. Nothing wrong with it other than the removed damping.
     
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  13. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Apples-to-apples comparison with LCD-X. Flat plate coupler.
    CSD

    Audeze LCD-X (early production) CSD
    LCD-X L.jpg

    MrSpeakers Ether 2 CSD
    FPC Ether 2 L.jpg

    Notes:
    • As in with the distortion plot, I didn't get a great seal on this rig. MrSpeakers Ether series are very sensitive to seal. The effect is that the CSDs can be a bit more ringy. This seems to be an ortho tendency.
    • A few others and I had observed (subjectively) sibilance and stridency with some tracks, particularly with neutral solid-state amps. The 9kHz ringing might confirm this. The EARS / SBAF frequency measurement really didn't indicate this would be an issue.
    • The decreased last octave energy of the Ether 2 in the CSDs in not reflected in the EARS / SBAF FR measurement. Usually, the flat-plate coupler will measure with lower highs compared to the EARS.
    • We talked about the ortho walls in the past: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/ortho-wall-for-lack-of-a-better-term.2119/
    • Could the ortho wall of the Ether 2 actually be that high up? Note that I have had a difficult time in the past hearing the effects of these orthos walls. But usually, they've been up high around 4kHz where I might have hearing damage. Hearing damage usually manifests as dips between 4-6kHz. Anyway, IMO higher ortho wall might be a good thing - less of that lazy sound that is exhibited the lower grade Audeze samples.
    • Otherwise, for the rest of the spectrum, the Ether 2 decay is fast and well controlled.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  14. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    Yay for the original CSD plots! It looks seriously clean throughout the midrange. Reminds me of how the HD800 looked in its midrange.
     
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  15. eIndi

    eIndi Rando

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    Don't mind me, just adding my E2's frequency response here. Averaged from four measurements, left channel, 1/24th smoothing. SBAF, HEQ and HPN compensation.

    [​IMG]
    Seems pretty in line with what other people have measured. I can also hear very weird treble on some tracks. I don't think it has anything to do with CSD or the ortho wall.

    Fastest decay of music that I have seen so far was 25 dB in 12 ms for a very synthetic hi-hat (or something like that) sound. E2 has a decay a few times as fast even in its problematic areas. I think it is just the frequency response in the treble that leaves much to be desired. 8 kHz seems to be on the high end, 10-12 kHz is really low, 16 kHz is very high again. 4 kHz is a bit low as well.

    Dependent on the music, this can sound just fine, a bit muffled, zingy or pretty terrible. EQing the 10-12 kHz area improves things, but I can't say that I am totally happy with the results. Given the pretty ragged look of the unsmoothed FR measurements, this is not surprising. This is not something that you can EQ away with a simple filter.

    I am the third owner of this E2. Looks like I am not the only one who has issues with this. If it was not for the alternate ear pads, I would be selling it already. I got a good deal on it, but the treble sound is just too inconsistent across different tracks to justify the full retail price for me. Currently trying to get some felt discs to attach to the outside of the ear cups.
     
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  16. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Here are the -45db floor measurements. Normally, I do -36db. For those not familiar, this digs deeper and and show irregularities that otherwise would not be seen.

    Ether 2 CSD (-45db floor instead of -36db).
    FPC Ether 2 L.jpg FPC Ether 2 R.jpg
     
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  17. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    Looks like the Ether2 is super clean even when the noise floor is dropped on the CSDs.


    I got my EARS in, and took some measurements of the Ether2. Getting the right seal for the bass extension took some playing around.

    These are with the HPN compensation I downloaded from the minidsp site, but with a slightly tweaked HEQ compensation from 7khz up to 20khz (slightly less aggressive than HEQ.) I tried the SBAF compensation, but did not like the results at all.

    Ether 2:
    [​IMG]



    For reference, here's the PM3 I received from Oppo when I participated in their beta test. I've kept it as I felt it had a reference type frequency response:
    [​IMG]


    And just for kicks, this was my very first audiophile headphone I got all the way back in 2011 for gaming, and I still use it regularly, the AD700. The AD700 has a very good midrange considering its price point:
    [​IMG]



    Here is my previous headphone, the Aeon Open:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  18. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    Congrat! Like all sbaf measurers, you will have hard time in thinking how to achieve internal-reliability and handle positioning variations .. and maybe channel matching. Have fun.

    Speaking of compensation, as you said, you need to generate a text file with a consistent delimiter -- either space and tab works (meaning you can copy and paste from spreadsheets). Typically applying deltas to the calibrated presets (e.g. flat) can be used.. but there might be small tricks that may improve the result. This is another fun to think of various ways. Enjoy.

    I liked some audio technica headphones very much -- ad700, ad1000, and ad2000 (all non-x) -- for their beautiful midrange. Your result reminded me of that good memory.
     
  19. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    Changed scale to 80db, and lowered graphs so text didn't intersect. I'll try to fiddle with fine tuning compensation a little bit, but I do feel the HPN is pretty good already. I definitely feel it's closer than HEQ to what I hear. If anything, mid-high treble is a tad low to reality. HEQ does a bit better at this.

    A couple things I noticed while measuring. Firstly, the Ether2 seemed to either have a huge but narrow notch at 9k, or not, depending on how it was positioned. Seal or no seal didn't affect this abberation. I'm not sure if that's inherent to the Ether2 or just some kind of interaction between the Ether2 and the EARS. Both the AD700 and PM3 didn't exhibit that notch. The particular graph I posted is without the notch.



    Both PM3 and AD700 were hooked up to computer onboard audio, while Ether2 was ran balanced from Jotunheim w/dac. I'm thinking the 'noise' or ringing in the low bass on PM3 and AD700 graphs is a result of the onboard audio. PM3 exhibits the subtle ringing in the midrange sometimes as well too. Ether2 didn't have this issue.
     
  20. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    ^
    This.
    100% agreed, and that's why I mixed hpn for low-lowmid and heq for highmid-high (before I settled on sbaf comp).

    Angle might be a determinant, too. Be aware that EARS's ear it mounted with nearly zero angle while real ears are a little angled. Trying to mimic this angle in EARS can change the result. This behavior is particularly evident in Ether 2. And way less so with senn 6x0 and 800.

    Not every peaks(dips) or rings are attributed to headphones. Some are due to EARS's distortion (i.e., artificial ear gain, canel drum resonance, etc), and others from "interaction" between such things and earpads inner space. Discerning is not trivial and takes time. Recommend you to measure as many headphone as possible with lots of different setups. You may need senn headphones (particularly 6x0) no matter whether you like it or not. They behave so normal that measuers can focus on measuring tool's tricky behaviors. I personally regard my 600 as a must-ish "calibration tool" (I hardly give my head time to them.. maybe EARS had them more than myself for these three months haha)
     
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