Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    Make sure to have them close to a wall. Passive membranes like this A LOT.
     
  2. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Unfortunately that also tends to kill soundstage, especially depth and layering but we’ll see. I’m not concerned about reinforcing bass really, I have a sub for that.However I will certainly be experimenting with placement.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  3. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    rlow, what other speakers have you owned before? I'm really interested in the buchardt s400 as well.

    considering it looks so much like the amphion argon 3s along with the low crossover frequency, i was wondering if they sound similar
     
  4. Forza AudioWorks

    Forza AudioWorks MOT: Forza AudioWorks

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    There's the S400 review at 6moons. I was also very surprised what these monitors could do with bass if positioned near wall.
     
  5. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Why? If it’s omni radiation, the SBIR will amplify it.
     
  6. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    If close, flat spaces extend passives' reach to pack more punch on the bottom. Audible differences between having passive membranes very close to a wall and in the middle of a room can be huge in this regard. Not all passives are the same, but many like coupling with a wall.
     
  7. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    It is. And it's scary to go in there, the place was designed to spend money left and right :cool:.
     
  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    A lot of rear ported speakers prefer being near the wall or far from the wall with a no go zone in between. See the Genelec placement guide.

    [​IMG]

    Placing them right up against the wall sounds horrific with anything not designed to be boundary loaded, eg Yamaha 70s NS Line. Those are voiced to do that and still sound horrific!
     
  9. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    I just watched a youtube review saying that this is definitely not suitable for nearfield listening due to the space in between tweeter and woofer. prolly need at least 2 meters to really show its strengths.
     
  10. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    When placing speakers near a wall there are generally three considerations, only one of them is specific to rear ported speakers. The other two work the same for all others.

    1. Distance to wall will determine where the first room mode notch will manifest. The closer you put the speaker to the wall the higher the null will be. Genelec recommend 5cm - 100cm distance.
    2. Boundary interference will amplify all omni-radiated sound. This happens for all speakers, unless they employ radiation control to limit backward bass. For all speakers tuned for flat free-field bass this will result in a bass boost. Luckily this is trivial to EQ out.
    3. Now this is for back ported speakers only - keep them at least 5cm off the wall to avoid port airflow restriction. Otherwise you'll be changing the tuning of the port and might get noise at higher SPL's. I imagine that speakers with a passive radiator on the back can also be placed too close to the back wall, if the air behind the radiator cannot freely move and thus could spring load it. Haven't seen any measurement to confirm it.

    [​IMG]

    This is true for all speakers with omnidirectional bass. Unless a speaker is designed to be wall or corner loaded, it will have exaggerated low frequencies. As far as I know, most speakers are designed for neutral free-space low end, to avoid sounding anemic when positioned far from a wall.
     
  11. uncola

    uncola Friend

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  12. Ferrum

    Ferrum Acquaintance

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    I use these old Tannoys and they are excellent nearfields. Better than most new I´ve heard. Distortion is low, imaging is very, very good, tonality spot on

    [​IMG]

    Ferrum
     
  13. Ferrum

    Ferrum Acquaintance

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    When I bought them they were in a sorry state, used as portable monitors for on location recordings.

    [​IMG]

    Ferrum
     
  14. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Ages ago I recall reading a paper that studied wall spacing for ports pertaining to acoustic impedance, tuning, blah blah. I can't remember many specifics, but I think the generalized finding was a minimum spacing equal to the port diameter, and recommended was double... which intuitively feels about right as a "rule of thumb".
     
  15. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    They look like they've been through hell in there alright :eek:

    Nicely restored work btw.
     
  16. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Too bad Behringer owns Tannoy now.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    So basically for small monitors with a rare 1" port, keep them 2" off the wall, which means don't worry about it.

    The HF stuff I used to read regarding the dangers of placing speakers with rare ports too close to the wall was total misinformation that completely neglected what was truly pertinent: free, half, quarter, eight space loading and the design (or adjust-ability) of the speaker in terms of baffle step compensation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  18. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Genelec gives distorted advice to their own customers.
    For example, the 8050A sound best at least 1.5m from the wall, given that the room is large enough. In this context I have found the golden ratio to ceiling and walls distances to be quite good approximation. The placement in relation to all walls and ceiling is in sum more important than just the distance from the back wall. For some reason the other reflective surfaces often tend to be ignored when seeking speaker placement advice.

    The distance from the back wall advice in isolation is only helpful when the side walls and ceiling are super far away.
     
  19. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I think their guides give only estimations of the effects of certain room placements. Without knowing the exact dimensions of a room no concrete recommendations can be possible in my experience. For rectangular rooms the best recommendation is learning how to use REW room-sim to find out what's what.

    Did you find out why?
     
  20. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Well, not strictly.
    Soundest explanation so far is that it blends the bass modes most evenly.
    It must be stressed that it is in context of placing them at around 1/3 of rooms length front to back, laterally at least a meter from side walls in length dividing something else than 3 or 4 from the lateral width.
    Also, ceiling to floor distance, sometimes makes a difference not to put speaker onto exactly half the distance.
    Close to wall I get sharp null and closely after a bump at around 120 Hz in various rooms.
    (16 m2 up to 120 m2).
    I don't measure much the response in these days, I can trust my ears just fine so far.

    Condensing such advice to strict simplified expressions doesn't seem to serve too many people.
    I agree that REW and a mic is closest to universal advice for those uninitiated.
     

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