New Chifiman Playnar Flagship Unveiled!

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by OJneg, Jan 5, 2017.

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  1. pedalhead

    pedalhead Friend

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    HFM are an obvious target because they're not making the effort on materials and build to match the price inflation. They just build a variation on the same cheap parts bin crap, give it a new name and double the price.

    Similar to expensive two channel stuff these days, price and BOM cost + R&D have little in common (which sucks). An MOT told me a while back that Fang walked around a show with a prototype HEK before its release asking trade members "how much do you think I could get for this?".
     
  2. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    Even the Utopia is far from close to what they ask for it, nice feel or not. I remember a while back, the commonly accepted advice for people looking for an upgrade was: get speakers, stoopid.

    With 4k I'm pretty sure it still applies.
     
  3. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Do you seriously think your opinion matters that much ?
     
  4. Vorlon

    Vorlon self-important, pompous ass

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    Comparing this with politics to me is just far fetched at best. I´m not a fan of the "Chifiman" moniker used here, but I don´t see HFM being in any way unique for taking crap, the same thing applies to Audeze, Abyss etc. Audeze lost me as a potential customer at LCD-3, Abyss on the other hand is so niche and irrelevant in the industry grand scale of things that I don´t even think it merits that much discussion. HFM lost me at HE-1000 already. I can´t take Utopia seriously at 4k. Sennheiser on the other hand doesn´t deserve to be put into the same group, although the HD800S does indeed have a ~300 euro "market trend bonus". They deserve crap for that, but it´s still in no way comparable to what Audeze, HiFiMaN and others are doing. Plus for what it´s worth, a joke just as bad as these products are most of the stuff the USA-based Grado puts out. That stuff is probably the worst measuring in the industry, just bad engineering.

    The problem with Audeze and HiFiMaN is that unlike niche stuff like Abyss they actually have global distribution these days. Even audio stores on the other side of the globe here in Finland are pushing these 3k+ "flagships" next to Sennheiser stuff. Actually a significant share of them are pushing these more than Sennheiser - the dealer margins must be really good... This development worries me a lot and is a really bad situation. It´s only right that there´s a serious backlash against it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  5. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    No, just more than yours.

    You can look back at the entire thread and see that more than just myself were commenting on the Utopia.
     
  6. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Oh I see. You have a bigger dick than mine.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    It's ok, no reason to feel ashamed. I'm sure you're bigger than the typical nu-money Chinese bastard who will buy the Edition 6 to go with his Maserati. If it makes you feel any better.
     
  8. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

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    Hifiman build quality at that price....
    [​IMG]
     
  9. obsidyen

    obsidyen New

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. GanGreinke

    GanGreinke Friend

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    I think that Hifiman deservedly gets the most admonishment because of their blatant attempts at what look like pure money grabs. There is the recent update to the HE1000 about a year from the original release that improves on build quality issues that shouldn't have been there on the original version. Then there have been issues that people have had with Hifiman's warranty services and pricing regarding replacement parts (i.e. charging $200 for a replacement headband). Then there are the reports of emails bribing Amazon users for positive reviews in exchange for earbuds. People get tired of these shenanigans, and even the most foolish audiophile won't want to spend top dollar on a product from a company that continues to build a shady reputation. Say what you will about the Audeze quality control; I think the most recent versions have had less failures, and their warranty departments appears to be very easy to work with.

    I could be wrong. One gushing review could be enough for people to put their blinders back on.
     
  11. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    It's pretty dysfunctional, I feel like there are more worthwhile choices in IEMs than full-sized cans now- the willy-size fi "flagship" thing is totally out of control, and a lot of the fancifully priced cans aren't even that good. I mean, the SR-009 and the Utopias are pretty damned good.. possibly not worth the RRP, but still quite close to eargasm... but a lot of the others? Not so much. Paying thousands for yet another funny-sounding Mr Speakers, funny-sounding and uncomfortable Audeze or funny-sounding and self-destructing HFM that will be replaced in six months? Ninja, please.

    I don't feel that deprived with my modded HD650 and modded HD800, and my guilty pair of HE-560. The HD650 gets more head time than anything, because they're just better. The tuning is less weird, so they sound less like headphones, and more like music. I have little desire to "upgrade" transducers unless I was to go all-in with Utopias or high-end Stax (which worry me, with their reliability issues and the Stax's famously terrible support).

    The fact that the best cans for me seem to be some sub-£250 things that came out years ago feels like a sign of failure on the part of "the market". f**k those guys- at least the rest of the chain has had a chance to improve in the meantime (thanks, @baldr!).

    ..and no, my growing contempt for HFM isn't some anti-China xenophobia kick.. I love my UM Martians- and UM were friendly and helpful when I mailed them directly- unlike f'ing HFM. Both credit and contempt where they're due.

    (Plus HFM are the crack dealers exploiting poor @pedalhead - those bastards!)
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  12. jerg

    jerg Friend

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    Eh. Every company has high value and low value items based on merit. At worst this'll just be a low-value product and won't be so popular.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    1. JPS Labs, Audeze, Focal, etc. were also given a similar level of crap. Well maybe Focal less because Focal, being a more well established and professional company, better managed their launch of their 4k USD headphone.
    2. As others have mentioned, the other companies look to have at least tried. The problem with the HFM Edition 6 is that it does not look the part. Therefore it is perceived not just as a money grab, but a particularly egregious money grab. HFM has an established reputation for poor build quality and low cost parts for high priced items. See ohG's HEK disassembly post.
    3. HFM has a reputation for being shady and unprofessional. The gifts for positive reviews, their spying on private CS correspondence, their bungling of the HEK launch and preferential pricing of the HEK betas. There's a bit more on HFM behavior on Chinese language forums too.
    4. Anti-China sentiments and Donald Trump did not cause #2 and #3 above. HFM did that to themselves.
    5. This is a bitch thread. It will eventually be closed like all other bitch threads: LCD4, Orpheus Redux, HF, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  14. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    poetry.PNG

    Well said! Pure poetry!
     
  15. pedalhead

    pedalhead Friend

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  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It dawned on me that some members and many lurkers may have felt that we were treating HFM unfairly for personal reasons, anti-China hegemony, covert advertising (shilling), prisoner organ transplants, etc. Our "hate" may be be prejudiced, but it is not irrational. I never felt totally comfortable with @ohhgourami posting the innards of the HEK, but I am now glad he glad. It's for the greater good.

    P.S. Just be glad that stuff like that can be posted here without being removed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  17. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Indeed HiFiMan is not alone in providing low value to the market. The brands you mention are indeed good examples. HiFiMan is just seemingly trying to break new ground on lack of value w/o grounds.

    Lack of innovation may indeed be problematic. But it's IMO a bit of a different problem than unjustified price hikes. Note also HFM no longer offers some well liked headphones which seemingly were replaced by lower quality ones.

    Sennheiser is a bit of a different beast. Hopefully they will not follow suit and release an HD690 and/or HD890 at $7k because improved (or actually lower quality) materials, or just cuz. And then completely remove the HD600, HD650 and HD800 from the market.

    HFM IMO gets shitloads of negative comments, because in the beginning their focus seemed different. Look at how things were 5 to 6 years ago:

    http://www.innerfidelity.com/conten...lanar-magnetic-headphones#sDO4cBUHodLvXh6Z.97

    Those cans were not as unreasonably priced. All are discontinued and replaced by IMO lower quality and higher priced headphones. Of the players that had similar offerings 5 to 6 years ago, only HFM completely redid their offerings, and took a direction for the worse in terms of value and performance.

    Dude, I'm an American and I'm concerned. I can tell you that south of the border things don't look good either. And I bet France is not a rosy happy place when it comes to politics.

    I don't see it as Americans, French, Mexicans, Chinese, Russians, English think this or that way. It's universal human nature. And I'm concerned. Hopefully we will not blow ourselves to pieces one of these days.

    As far as HFM being Chinese, I couldn't care less. It's their current direction which I don't like.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  18. TonyNewman

    TonyNewman Validated by Tyll removing Utopia from WOF

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    Thanks for posting that link. Compare those internals to a HD6xx/800 or Utopia/Elear or Ether whatever. I would be embarrassed to put a 3K price tag on something so shoddily built. I think that says plenty about the HiFiMan business model.

    I have enjoyed my modded HE6 tremendously, and it is a keeper, but I will never buy another HFM product.

    And it is not as if a Chinese company can't do quality. I recently replaced my HM901S DAP with a FiiO X7 with AM3 balanced amp module due to the awful UI and regular reliability issues of the HM901S. The X7 costs around half (or less) than the HFM product, SQ is on par, and the build quality, reliability and UI are miles ahead. If FiiO can combine value and quality, why can't HFM? The obvious answer is because that is not what HFM is really about, at least not anymore.
     
  19. aufmerksam

    aufmerksam Friend

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    The (shockingly negative) direction the HF thread continues to take makes me wonder if indeed Fang thumbed his nose at Jude. No video from the god-emperor? No special zomg release thread? Shart making frank criticism about price : performance problems? Something isn't right over in the matrix...
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  20. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    I think (and I may be wrong) that here the whole "Playnar" and "Chi-fi" stuff are used as a joking stereotype/inside jokes, more poking fun at than serious. Most of the time. However, things like these have a bad habit of trickling through people who are just reading for the first time and polluting the popular opinion somewhat.

    I don't think the general skepticism and disdain towards Hifiman is uncalled for in any way. They have notoriously low QC, abysmal customer service, and do extremely sketchy things (such as encouraging customers to understate values on packages sent back to them for customs fee dodging purposes, which is not only usually illegal, but a felony offense in some situations and locations) in general. They need to do some serious work to regain any semblance of trust in their products, and their brand name, as I wouldn't even consider paying for any of their products past the 400i's at this point in time.

    While #NotAllChineseCompanies might make for a spicy meme, the location of the company alone shouldn't be a deciding factor in whether a product is good or not. The general reputation is probably deserved, but it's well worth for people to look past such things if they're making a serious decision.
     
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