Ode to Schiit: Vali Coaster

I hope I hear a headphone someday and think “God I wish I made those”. That would be awesome. So far nothing comes close.

I think amplifiers are in a much better place than transducers. There’s no Cavallis or Craigs or dBels or Schitts in the headphone market.

 

I didn’t mean to be a downer. But to use it as an example. It’s important for history to be remembered to help as a guide for what to do as well as what not to do.

also good to hear clarification about the truth behind Singlepower’s demise. You should be proud of the path you’ve taken in this hobby because when you say something like this about Singlepower I know it’s not gossip, I know it’s not BS said in an ego trip like the baker and the master. It’s trustworthy.

And very cool to hear you were involved in designing the SOHA I didn’t know that. I’ll never sell mine! It doesn’t grab the transducer by the balls like much more expensive amps, it’s not enough for the HD650. But it just sounds really good. And it’s enough for my modded orthos which have their shit together and don’t need their balls in a vice like the overdamped HD650.

The EHHA. That’s the amp I was referring to in my earlier post that was the precursor to the liquid fire and which I heard two very different sounding builds of. The good one was astoundingly beautiful to listen to. Never heard anything like it before. The other was so boring. Might as well just use my iPod.

 

Tho I'm some rando I wanted to chime in to say how much I appreciate this thread.

I dove in headfirst in the "old days", but holy hell did I drink some kool aid. First Singlepower, then KG. Needing to follow the cool crowd because I couldn't give myself my own validation, an internet community trope if there ever was one.

I've been on the sidelines for years and years now, for a bunch of reasons, but feeling alienated from the pure fun of it has definitely been a part of it. Thanks all for reminding me of what it was like.

 

Sennheiser HD250 II Linear, not joking.

I have had and tried dozens of headphones and these had everything for me in sound. Philips (yes the light bulb company), AKG and Pioneer came close but everything sounded good on these. If Sennheiser would make these again, I would set the money aside and buy them a.s.a.p. and not look back. (Bonus, Sennheiser actually knows how important it is to continue the support/spare parts for legacy products.)

In the 70-ties, 80-ties and 90-ties manufacturers have experimented with headphones and drivers. There are some gems out there. The Pioneer Monitor 10 alone is severely underrated, that driver with a bit of power is seriously impressive.

The guys to follow on HF were the vintage, DIY and modification guys. Paying attention to those people really helped me to navigate this hobby. Vintage AKG was so much fun to discover...

Back to coffee.

 

A bit of a trivia (also a slight topic-of-interest for myself) - Shor's algorithm was what I believe the first algorithm ever to describe a theoretical implementation on an equally theoretical quantum computing model. That's 1994.

Thankfully we do already have quantum resistant cryptography these days.

 

This thread might be the best thread ever and is about so much more than one pcb and some DIY. It should be required reading for all new members.

I'm not exactly new here, having come from from Changstar, albeit the later days, but some of the personal-audio/group-audio history posts are real eye-openers about what you guys did, how, and why, and why you continue to feel strongly about this stuff today.

 

Thanks for all the nostalgia. I still remember when the Vali came out and Marv posted that preview thread on changstar. Ended up buying one as it came out. In the beginning I used it with my PCIe soundcard, which I later replaced by the Gungnir DS. That was my setup for quite a long time with the HD800, cycling through various mods. If it wasn't for this thread I likely wouldn't have tried this...

As I found out in my 'Entry-level USB Audio Interface comparison' thread the MOTU M4's headphone out sucks. I finally connected my Vali to the M4 so I could use it while gaming. I had it connected to my Gungnir MB before via a long RCA cable, intending to use it as a nighttime bedside rig. Ultimately though I never really used it in that way, instead still listening to my speakers at night (at lower volume). So my Vali never really got any use. This changes that.

So how does it sound in this use case? First the bad: This is not really a synergestic setup, in fact the tonal balance from the M4 headphone out was a better tonal match with the modded HD800: The Vali is a bit too lean sounding overall. It doesn't help that I am using a slightly bright sounding cable at the moment, which I will probably switch out for a warmer sounding one. I also find the Vali to have some weirdness in the treble. The weight in the lowest octaves is also somewhat lacking. It runs warm. You could say the Vali is too resolving and lets too much of the delta-sigma-ness of the M4 through. Switching between DACs is night and day with the Vali. Finally sometimes banging on the keyboard may trigger the tube ringing and the hiss is audible in silence.

However the good far outweigh the bad for me: Using it like this is far more involving than the built in headphone out. I have to admit I somewhat forgot about the good qualities of the Vali, but they are certainly still there: The microdynamics are far superior to the built in amp. The resolution and clarity are on a whole different level aswell. The staging is somewhat more expansive. Despite the much higher measured distortion it even seems to sound a lot less congested in busy passages. Larger shifts in volume level are also presented more convincingly and the treble is somewhat smoother despite a brighter tonality. I wouldn't call macrodynamics a strong suite of the Vali, but at least it's better than the built in amp. The built in headphone out may sound 'cleaner' in that it strips away more information and leaves music sounding sterile, but I'd even describe the Vali as clearer sounding. There's even a hint of sweetness in the midrange.

All the self proclaimed objectivists would be laughing now, using an amp with a THD and noise floor that is many orders of magnitude worse than the built in one. At higher levels the Vali has more than an order of magnitude more distortion than the HD800 in the midrange! Almost 30dB more D2 as I measured here. But it sounds good - I have a feeling I'll use my HD800 a bit more often now. BTW: The M4's large digital volume control knob works really welll in avoiding the channel imbalance for low volume listening.

Sidenote 1: When I used to use my Vali I would get annoyed at the noise floor with the HD800 whenever I wasn't listening to music. However for gaming where there really aren't any silent moments this doesn't matter in the slightest. And even when there's a moment of silence ingame the coil whine of my GPU and my CRT buzz aren't much quieter. Both my AC or spinning HDDs are a bit louder than the hiss with the HD800, however I only connect my HDDs for backups. Overall I am no longer annoyed by the noise floor in this use case. It's also possible I got slightly less picky when it comes to noise.

Sidenote 2: Not really relevant here, but in this use case I had to resolder my TRS to XLR adapter for reversed polarity, otherwise my voice and the sound played back through the headphones somehow cancelled out, likely due to sound travelling through the eustachian tube (hitting the back of the tympanic membrane) and sound through the headphones cancelling out.
This would indicate that most USB audio interfaces likely have a headphone out with inverted polarity, otherwise monitoring your own voice through headphones (when both the microphone and headphone are in positive polarity) would sound really weird.

 

@rhythmdevils Said this amp was special, and I have to agree! Turns out the issue was just a dead battery inside the chassis, the amp runs off a single 8.4 volt, so I ordered a rechargeable one and now it sings like a bird. This is absolutely the best I’ve ever heard the FDX1, and I’ve heard them on the Lyr 3, the Liquid Platinum, the GOV2+ Infinity, the ALO Rx Mk 3-B, and the Sony ZX300. The grip on the drivers is phenomenal, and the bass slam is out of this world. There’s a vividness and immediacy to the sound that is captivating, but it’s not harsh or etched or sloppy. This little amp the length of a lipstick tube and only slightly wider kicks some serious ass. Just thought I’d share since Philimon was kind enough to pass it along to me.

 

yup, best portable amp I've ever heard. It's a PPA built tiny into a portable enclosure. It can actually drive HD650's. Not like an uber amp can, but it's able to.

I sent mine to Anaxalmort to send on a loaner program, esp to @purr1n to check out and measure but he just kept it and is now incommunicado. I was tempted to PM Philmon to ask for it as a replacement since it was special to me, but I realized I'll be using portable DAC/Amps from now on. The gain on mine was crazy high! No headphone got it past like 11 o'clock and that was only my 600 ohm Sextetts.

 

I'm glad one of Pavel's PPAS's went to a good guy. They only made a small number of boards so that amp is basically unobtanium.

 

I’m sure one of these days we’ll discover Amir was on Topping’s payroll, or was getting kickbacks from them, or some other such arrangement.

 

the Project Polaris was the amp I decided to buy after owning an Objective2 for a while in 2015, to test the objectivist theory that was so prevalent on HF at the time. it turned out it was a complete illusion/farce. I sold the O2 and never looked at amplifier measurements again

 

The original Vali did sound quite incredible. I had a Vali and one of the limited production Beyerdynamic Chrome T90s(that came with the fancy Chesky records CD) back in the day. It was my first really hi end(by my standards) setup upgrading from DT770s Fidelio Xs and the like.

It sounded absolutely incredible, punchy fun bass, insane details, face melting guitar solos, had it all! Sure the t90 was bright but as long as I didn't crank the volume it was fine and the Vali took the edge of some of the highs compared to the o2 I also had.

I still have a very vivid memory of playing the Witcher 3 with the setup and having the absolute shit scared of me when I used the Witcher sense. Was just walking along through the woods, pressed that button and.... HOLY f'ing SHIT WOLVES THERE IS A GODDAMN PACK OF WOLVES IN MY HOUSE!

It sounded that real, I had to pause the game and make sure I wasn't actually beset by a pack of wolves. Incredible stuff.

Unfortunately I let people get to me and I ended up selling the whole setup after seeing so many t90 is shit, Vali distorted microphonic poop comments. I was full on convinced amps and dacs made no difference etc etc. Should have just kept it could have saved myself a lot of time and money!

 

That's actually the coaster schematic. The Vali (1) adds higher rail voltages, and a buffer stage before the output stage (not a true driver stage), but hey, it's more complexity. Vali 2 is quite a bit different. But that's to be expected with a totally different tube in there.

And...the buffer stage may be the majority sonic difference between Vali (1) and the coaster. Adding a driver stage to Asgard 3 turns it into a very Magni 3+-like amp. Something we played with before launch, and abandoned as not having the target sound.

 

I dunno, I still appreciate the mental image I have of some schlubby overweight IT nerd with a f**k load of money thanks to MS stock options shuffling in fuzzy slippers around his palatial San Jose home with all sorts of stupid entertainment-class contractor installed IOT home options with piles of stupid Chi-fi junk (along with loads of garbage speakers people keep sending him) in every unused room because he has no friends, and a mostly dissociative family, thinking, "this is it! I'm achieving the American Dream!" All the while, his subordinates at work think he's a mental kumquat, and they regularly belittle him to his face while he is unaware due to his lack of understanding current social norms in the tech industry, and is regularly undercut in deals because he's still living in 1998-2005 Silicon Valley. His only clients are his existing 50-year old schlubby mildly overweight IT nerd-friends, and his leads book is as empty as it's been for 5 years now.

But now he's got patreon (that he continually misspells) and throngs of idiotic inexperienced millennials and grudgey fake-audiophile 60+ year old ayn rand devotees who got bored with Audio Asylum slurping up his measurment-barf, so it's all good. He's "serving a purpose".