Passive Volume Control for DACs/Sources

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Madaboutaudio, Dec 20, 2015.

  1. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    Yeah thats completely understandable. I'd love to have a solution like the Freya for my Liquid Platinum too but 1. Don't want a preamp thats 2x the size of the amp and 2. I have no use for the active features of Freya. While the Goldpoint seems like a great size, the value factor is not great. If Schiit could do a fully passive balanced Saga or sell in-line static attenuators that are cheaper than the $50 audiophile stuff on the market, I'd be all over that stuff.
     
  2. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    I use Saga with some nice Lundahls connected to Yggdrasil a1 balanced and i have no complaints at all. The Lundahls take off a tiny bit of edge/smooth things out a touch. And for the price i think Saga is a great deal given the cost of remote controlled steppers and even then you have to include the other parts as well.
     
  3. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Yep but it comes with a pot so no reason not to use it. Bourns so it’s not some no name junk.

    Acquiescing to built in volume control and other features is the first step to curtailing audio ocd.
     
  4. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    In my world relay steppers reign supreme, mostly due to simple signal path (resistors + gold on gold contacts) and scalability to absolutely insane channel counts (and you can retain really good knobfeel). Of course, relay steppers are rather complex to implement and changing Zin or Zout can give headaches with some equipment. Next come decent digital attenuators, which can be used with resistive voltage dividers to keep bit slashing low (yet I've never actually heard it). Last come decent potentiometers which are a breeze to implement, but can get very expensive if one wants to use Penny&Giles or something like that.

    At the same time, I've NEVER experienced a system where volume control would be the limiting factor for sound quality. It's an easy thing to obsess over, but even friggin Nagra uses RK27 in their preamps. And Nagra are one of the more OCD mfg's out there when it comes to parts.
     
  5. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    Kinda like the blue pill in Matrix.
     
  6. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    If I understand it properly, a stepped attenuator in any fixed position is an equivalent of a fixed in line attenuator?
    Question mark is here for a reason. If that' not the case, you can stop reading right here :).

    Assuming that, I do not know why for example Rothwell balanced atteuator would behave any different than Goldpoint SA1X at -10dB. Mind you Rothwell at $90 (single level) is not exactly cheap comparing to Goldpoint SA1X at $515.
    Rothwell is just an example, but I have seen video where the @atomicbob approach was used to Shure in line attenuators, with similar results. Assuming that the attenuator is used with the amp input resistance it was designed for.

    Measurements for me is a reference point that, more often than not, correlates with what people can hear. Yes, in some cases stuff that measures well is not that good, but usually we are talking about more complex components than just a pot, or added in line resistor
     
  7. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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  8. damaged-goods

    damaged-goods Acquaintance

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    That's certainly a point. I'm using a Phonitor e and have talked with a SPL tech about the subject. He said they don't recommend passives because the sound of the amp changes with the impedance it sees. As every step on a passive has a different output impedance it's not a good idea to use them if you want constant sound quality. They recommend actives but these are also not transparent.
    SPL are pro audio studio people, they're not esoteric audiophiles.

    The Goldenjacks attentuator I have has 3K9 ohm output impedance The Rothells most likely have more. The SYS has max 5k ohm, depending on setting. My amps have 10k ohm and 18k ohm input impedance, that's not much.

    The question is at which point does the impedance the amp sees has an audible impact on the sound quality and how does is alter the sound? How do you measure that? (Serious questions)

    SBAF usually has a healthy viewpoint on measurements, Just becuase something measures transparent doesn't mean it sounds the same.
     
  9. allegro

    allegro Friend

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    As a rule I recall the input impedance of the amp should be minimum 10 times the output impedance of the preamp.
     
  10. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    I know this is blasphemous, but if you're listening digitally, how bad is it to lower the gain via software instead of through a pre-amp? I've seen people argue about this for ages via foobar, but don't know if I've ever read firm conclusions.
     
  11. damaged-goods

    damaged-goods Acquaintance

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    The quality of software volume control varies. If a software can use replay gain you can usually use the replay gain preamp. For foobar that's in the preference settings and it works very well.
     
  12. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    So is the Hattor the premium version of the Khozmo? Even though with all the upgrades, it seems the Khozmo costs more.
     
  13. lcmusiclover

    lcmusiclover Friend

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    For my config (Balanced w/ input select, remote and base Vishay) Hattor is about $200 more than Khozmo shipped.
     
  14. Ozarktom

    Ozarktom Nobsound Fever

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    Hello fellow passive lovers, I signed up just to follow your thoughts on passive preamps. Has amyone here used any of the Axiom II passives?
     
  15. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    What hilarious is that the Goldpoint SA1X is a steal of a deal compared to Tortuga's balanced offerings ($1,100 or $1,900!!).

    Still given the price of a SA1X + a pro dac like the Solaris, overall that seems to be a pretty darn good combo from impressions (have not heard personally) and two balanced outputs with variable output control -- essentially same price as Yggdrasil.
     
  16. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Hey I just remember that I've got a balanced Emotiva Control Freak sitting unopened in a drawer downstairs! It's about as simple as you can get with a knob and wires wires. I remember getting it as a sort of backup, then utterly forgot about it. I think I even "modded" it with a bit of bluetack to improve the knobfeel.
     
  17. Thenewerguy009

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    How did it sound?
     
  18. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    WIth the pro gear that I was futzing about with at the time, I only tested enough to determine that it worked and didn't do anything weird to the overall sound. I believe I was feeding coax/AES into the Behringer DCX2496 -> Control Freak -> whatever pro amp I was using in the rack at the time -> big honking PA boxes that were overpowering my basement
     
  19. Ozarktom

    Ozarktom Nobsound Fever

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    If anyone needs a used Warp Speed or Tortuga, a friend of mine wants to sell his. I finally talked him into the $56 Nobsound passive and he flipped out. He just wishes it had a remote.

    I highly recommend the Nobsound to first time buyers, Amazon sells them and can be returned in 30 days.

    I sold my $1800 tube preamp after buying one.
     
  20. Ozarktom

    Ozarktom Nobsound Fever

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