Power Regeneration, Surge Protectors, UPS yadayadayada

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by Judeus, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

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    Just wondering what your guyses setup is for this and how important you feel it is?

    I persoanlly don't think it has much of a difference if any. Maybe if your power is realllly bad it could help. I think the most important factor is the quality of the transformer in your Amp/Dac/Pre is 100x more important. Of yours has a bad one then maybe it could make a bigger difference

    That being said, I have a direct AC line and I am using a hospital grade trip lite noise suppressor and isolator.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
  2. logscool

    logscool Friend

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    I have not played around with this stuff really at all but my thoughts are the following. A very well designed power supply in your components should be able to deal with most issues quite well and therefore getting components with quality power supplies should be a priority. A crappy switch mode power supply will always perform poorly regardless of how cleanly regulated the AC line voltage coming in is. Also poorly designed power supplies can be feeding noise back into the line which can be picked up by other equipment even if they have relatively well designed supplies. In short my view is to try and use good quality power supplies in all your equipment and if something has a poor quality switch mode supply consider using a well designed linear power supply to power it.
     
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  3. badf00d

    badf00d Friend

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    I've been wondering about this very topic.

    How can you tell if you have a poor quality switch mode power supply? Are all components able to introduce problems, or is something with higher current draw more likely to cause a problem? I'm not sure what to look for in this witch hunt, or how to tell that I need to, audibly.
     
  4. logscool

    logscool Friend

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    The amount of common mode noise put back into the line by a switch mode supply is not really dependent on it's power output, very low output supplies can have lots of noise. Without getting complicated the best way to trace down a source of common mode noise after you have determined that the noise isn't a ground loop issue would be to simply unplug everything unneeded and see if the problem goes away, then plug things back in one at a time until you find the culprit. If you don't notice a readily apparent issue and are just wondering if your sound quality could be improved through better power supplies I guess you could do the same as above but you obviously won't be able to test the effects of a better power supply on the components which are being used in the test. There are methods of measuring the noise but you would likely need a quality oscilloscope with a good low volts/div setting, bandwidth does not need to be very high though.

    Here is a very non-audiophile look at power supply measurements and common mode noise.
     
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  5. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

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  6. Nateman831

    Nateman831 Friend

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    I'm considering buying a UPS with active power conditioning for my computer and audio equipment because my home exhibits a few behaviors which indicate electrical problems:

    - The light bulbs in certain fixtures burn out every several weeks
    - dimmable lamp buzzes when set to max, and then shuts itself off after a few minutes
    - The power supply of my Wyrd USB decrappifier buzzes when it's plugged in at home - but not at work
    - Electrical heaters shut themselves off after a few minutes on high power. They run fine on their low setting

    Is this a good approach? I'd rather not go the route of asking the landlord to have the home's electrical wiring redone
     
  7. logscool

    logscool Friend

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    I don't really think the wiring would be the issue but I do think it would be valuable to look into what might be. One of the power meters that you plug into the wall might be a good way to try and look at voltages and frequencies of what your electrical service is running at and get an idea of what the issue is
     
  8. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    @Nateman831 An UPS is always nice to have with computer equipment, not so necessary for audio equipment as there is no potential data loss, but it also will not hurt your audio gear either, just keep it all on in the event of a power loss in the home/Apt. Also the surge protection would be great for your PC and audio equipment. The power conditioning may be of help for buzzing - I actually have the same issue sometimes with my Valhalla 2 and was suggested getting an Isobar.

    A UPS is a good idea, and would provide protection, and backup power, but even with power condition I do not know personally if that would solve the problem with the buzzing from your Wyrd at home. I still have to get an Isobar to try to see if it fixes my issue. If I figure out how to prevent the buzzing I get sometimes with my V2, I will certainly pass the info on to you so you can try it.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Building Magnis part time because it's peaceful.

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  10. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    Wow that looks extremely interesting - thanks for that link purrin :)
     
  11. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Derail inc...

    I don't have any idea why Emotiva isn't more popular. Made in USA, no-nonsense. I have their Big Ego at work and it's great for the price.

    I couldn't tell the difference between it and the Bifrost Multibit going to a Project Ember II or iCAN Micro. It took the Audio-GD Roc to discern differences.
     
  12. MrTie

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    I use a Belkin PF60 conditioner/surge protector, I picked it up on a closeout for I think $70, I don't think it make a lick of difference to sound in system, but the utility of trigger cable on, programmable bank delay, and the peace of mind from surge protection made it a good buy for me.

    [​IMG]

    It also looks nice in my av center.
     
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  13. firev1

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    Have a Tacima mains conditioner and for my experience, the noise source closest to PC audio components is actually the monitor. The monitor smps puts out quite a bit of common mode garbage. All my components share the same power point so what I do is keep the monitor on the non filtered part and have all my other stuff on the power strip.
     
  14. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    It depends seriously of the power quality if any filtration makes sense. Most of my equipment sounds better on my countryside home. I was originally sure it is just mental bias until I measured the ac quality on both cases.
    Some psu-s and following circuits are less affected than others. Yggdrasil and anything I have with shunt psu-s feel like they won't care about power quality that much while most amplifiers and Yulong dacs do.
     
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  15. Nateman831

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    @purrin Thank you for that info - I'm going to take a good look into that

    @logscool That's probably a good idea - You thinking something like this one? http://www.amazon.com/Volmate-Portable-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Ohmmeter/dp/B00TWTLYQE

    @The Alchemist My thinking with the UPS isn't so much for the time it affords to do a proper shutdown, but just my (uneducated?) best guess of how to cheaply provide an optimal electrical signal when you know you know you have an electrical problem. If I went that route, my favored approach is to get a UPS that produces a pure sine wave rather than a stepped one. Like this CyberPower for $214 http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Compatible-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W

    On a related note, my Tripp Lite Isobar arrived yesterday (8 outlets/4 filter banks, EMI / RFI Filtering ). I tested this on my work rig iPhone>Wyrd>ODAC>O2 and my home setup PC>Gungnir Multibit>Asgard2, and my first impressions with both is that it increased the clarity - and possibly made the hard hitting sections even harder hitting. I think the difference was more noticeable on the work rig - my guess is that the PSU on my home devices are more expensive and more sophisticated than the work rig and therefore more immune to a dirty signal, but I'm not an electrical engineer. This, plus the affect the Wyrd has on the ODAC, have convinced me of the importance of feeding your equipment a good electrical signal...
     
  16. Nateman831

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    @purrin If I got the Emotiva you recommended, any idea what the preferable setup would be considering I also have an Isobar? My first thought would be to plug the Emotiva into the wall, and the isobar into the emotiva, so I can plug the rest of my equipment into their own banks in the isobar, but maybe there's a reason that's not the best approach?
     
  17. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    I'll be getting a Tripp Lite line conditioner eventually, more for the $25,000 insurance it provides than anything else. If it cleans up power or whatever, awesome, but spending $125 on a component to protect a few thousand worth of equipment seems like a good deal to me.
     
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  18. DrForBin

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    hello,

    can anyone advise me as to the recommended Isobars in 4, 6, and 8 outlet flavours? i get confused with the options on the maker's site.

    thanks!
     
  19. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    I asked Emotiva. If you have a good surge protector that provides consistent power (like a good Belkin or APC), you can plug the Emotiva into that.

    Surge protection first then conditioner to clean everything up before your audio gear.
     
  20. UltraShock

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    The cheap power conditioners are fine in my experience. You can sometimes have good luck finding cheap ones at places like Guitar Center. Better prices than eBay before shipping even, at least in my area. Also got my Crown power amps from that Guitar Center too.

    I personally don't use a conditioner in my listening setup, just my recording setup. i've never felt like i should use more than just a surge protector for my actual stereo.
     

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