Psalm gives his opinion on speakers from his mom's basement

Discussion in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' started by Taverius, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. aamefford

    aamefford Nothing like chamberpot coffee

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Between SF and Sac
    In my younger days, that would have been the only range that mattered.
     
  2. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    233
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Fairfield, IA
    I have a friend who is raving about the Ocean Way Audio HR3.5 monitors. Horns cast in lightweight concrete for the mids and highs. Two 12 inch woofers. 3.4 Kilowatts of digitally crossed tri-amplification... EACH. At $10K per, seems like a pretty cost effective way to reach the @Psalmanazar Threshold.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  3. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Got rid of my shitty Fostex monitors a while ago. I am not the biggest fan of headphones in general now so most of my listening is on midnight on hd600 or during the day cranking car speakers.

    Listening and checking out potential buys now but I need to pull the trigger on something as a holdover. The non cheapskate KRKs maybe (most likely), used Adam, or the upcoming Kali 3 ways (if they don’t hiss and aren’t flabby warmpoo) are all possible. I don’t have a lot of free time right now. I need to go hear the Barefoot stuff vs dynaudio (not a big fan of the older lyd and the line before that monitors with the 6” and the 10” 2 ways but I’ve heard good things about the new core series 3 way) Neumann big boys (good but lack rap volume and extension not in beerfield and Kh420 costs bank) and Genelecs (bleh). I have some ideas but have to wait or travel to try some of the stuff I really want to hear like EgglestonWorks, HEDD, Geithain, and APS.

    Most of the hifi stuff I hear, I either hate or wouldn’t pay more than 100-200 per speaker for at a thrift store (B&W, old school pioneer and Yamahas, old JBLs) personally. I’m also too busy and lazy to diy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  4. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,130
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    Damn! I wish I could do that with the Grateful Dead.

    That does look rather superb. But: is that a stereo amplifier? Outputting mono? And the deck/records, surely shellac? Don't think that ever came in stereo?

    That's so old I can almost remem... Oh wait! More than almost: I actually saw Arthur Brown singing Fire once.

    Guys, guys... It's called an autochanger. That's how you listen to a symphony with just a few minutes per side.

    A good idea to drop your records on each other? Maybe not.
     
  5. ufospls2

    ufospls2 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    2,010
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Canada
    The dude from the craigslist ad I posted a couple pages back sent me a pic of his new set up. Oof.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What's that printer paper holder thingie on the front?
     
  7. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,894
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    The acoustic lense?
     
  8. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    233
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Fairfield, IA
    Diffractive acoustic lens... radiation pattern similar to a horn, but, back in the good old days, cheaper to make.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Not running a Crown, but the Aegir x2, which would like x2 Crowns in class A and bridged for differential input. But as you can see. I am running the Dangerous Music Convert-2 with the JBL 4698b (FR measurements and design analysis here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...98b-speaker-bwc-alert.7412/page-2#post-254866)

    DMC2w4468b.jpg

    Can you explain why this is torture or why I should f**k off for being a communist pig? This setup actually sounds fantastic! (Telarc Copland CD, Talking Heads, Motorhead, Mozart Requiem, Alicia Keys Unplugged, etc.) I am curious, you also mentioned in a nebulous way these kinds of speakers are "awful" and that you don't like "human voices" on them. What about them is awful? Can you be more specific? When did you hear such a configuration? What vintage big box JBLs again? I am trying to understand. To see if I can hear the things that you don't like or better understand your point of view.

    On your signature line, you also say that science is physics and everything else is stamp collecting. What about the 4698b FR plot below do you find disconcerting? More importantly, do you have scientific data (or even basic information) for this special "custom Omega" speaker that you are using?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  10. winders

    winders boomer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    No shit. The demographic of this forum is clearly way younger than I am.....
     
  11. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,894
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I know what an autochanger is and I'm in college.
     
  12. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,130
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    You were born before autochangers and missed them as you transitioned from wax straight to vinyl?
     
  13. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,659
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northern Californium Valley
    Ah yes wax. The sound was horrible and you couldn’t play them on a hot day! :D
     
  14. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    A Cell
    I listen to this:

    [​IMG]

    From time to time which I consider among the finest live albums. 85 dB is completely sufficient to me, my active speakers with notorious 6.5 inch double woofers can handle that, they can handle even more, which is IMHO also due to the fact that the signal must not travel through the abomination which some call a passive xover. This of course won't cut the mustard according to Psalm, it does for me.
    When I considered upgrading speakers I thought about:

    [​IMG]

    Open baffle, active, woofer downfiring Ripol 12" long throw. Someone in whose experience I trust told me that open baffle is tricky if you cannot place the speakers in symmetric sourroundings. The front wall in front ofwhich I need to place my speaker has one corner with concrete walls and one corner with windows. Open baffle do not sound boxy but due to the radiation pattern of dipoles ithe tonality of left and right speaker might not match in highly non symmetric surroundings.

    Having listened to Neumann KH120 and 310 and having been told by people in whose judgement I trust that the sweet spot of the Neumann range is the KH420, because the ease of the woofer makes the nice tweeter and the dome midrange shine even more:

    [​IMG]
    This was on my list, too. 10" woofer. Brilliant constant directivity (see @Hrodulf 's post). This helps if you listen in a rather small room with strong reflections, because all frequencies will be relfected in a similar fashion, which preserves the tonality. Havn't heard them yet.

    Up to now my all time favourite speakers (maybe also because the room of the dealer had good acoustic treatment):

    [​IMG]

    The washing machine aka Geithain RL901k (15" long throw woofer) quasi coaxial with a cardoid radiation pattern long before Kii or Dutch&Dutch even existed. 116 dB @ 1m @ 100 Hz, Going down to 25 Hz "only" because their designer agrees with @purr1n slam is more important than digging deep. Made for listening distance from 2 to 4 m. Sitting farther away? Listening to Slayer? This might fit your bill:

    [​IMG]

    2x 15" woofer, 3x tweeter for listenning distances between 3 and 8 m.
    For my listening room this would be sufficient:

    [​IMG]

    10" woofer

    I also listnened to these:

    [​IMG]

    Beyma 2" compression driver, 21" horn diameter,2x 220 mm wavecor woofer. That is where my search stopped. I listened to these for about half an hour at a show. I was impressed at how loud they go without sounding compressed or distorted. I do not consider myself a golden ear but I am very sensitive to SPL and distortion. When my girlfriend "cranks§ her PC built in "speakers" up to something like 50 dB it already sounds too loud for me. I do not know how loud the music played during these 30 min, however the result was and still is that my tinnitus has come back with a vengeance. Nowadays I still listen to music but rarely in the sweetspot and not very loud, so my speakers which make me part of the MWC aka micro woofer club will do for now. By the way the soundstage was too close to where I sat with these speakers for my liking and I had the feeling that the stage was very high up which made me crane my neck, that might be due to the mediocre listening situation at the show (small hotel room).
    Apart from being of the active kind the above-mentioned speakers are quite different in design, I don't think it worthwhile making a religion of how speakers should be built.

    By the way in order to tame the modal behaviour of your room there is always the solution of a double bass array. Needs a lot of space you think? Take four or even better eight of these:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.wavecor.com/html/sw280wa01.html

    Put them in closed cabinets a little less than 6" deep (they only need 20 l) add a plate amp like Hypex FA521 and stick these cabinets to the front and back wall and enjoy clean bass. Down with reverberation time in the bass region even in small rooms.
     
  15. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Likes Received:
    1,419
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    .
    This needs to go in the speaker porn thread. Good grief that is insane. And the JBL 2360 bi-radial horns behind those. Wow.
     
  16. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Some nice stuff there (KH420 is good but KH310 is the best Sennheiser speaker imo but only good in nearfield and the extension isn't great) and I want to hear the Geithains but are you talking about 85db peaks or average? One will be far easier to hit than the other at a reasonable difference.

    Some dual 7" woofer stuff can be good. Adam A77X is incredible like 2-3m away if you don’t need to hit ball tingling frequencies. It covers all rock band instruments pretty well. But if you want electronic or rap bass, more extension may be necessary. It also doesn’t do well very up close (imaging sucks) versus the A7X or further back (will struggle with headroom) with rock and metal and will never have the detail up close of a real 3 way.

    Even up close, it depends on the woofer. Some 8" woofers suck balls up close even without passive crossovers. The Dynaudio Lyd stuff is cheapish and not bad but doesn't extend. Kinda wimpy for what it costs too.

    6.5" woofers totally unsuitable for a room filling, mains sound with any sort of extension and volume.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  17. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    Does the Neumann KH voice sound more or less than same within the series? Doubtful a full blown 420 will be available to hear but if something smaller is, would be cool to get a sense of them.
     
  18. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Likes Received:
    1,419
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    .
    LOL no one wants to be the town where libidinal energy is not allowed to properly exercise itself and Kevin Bacon is what amounts to a hero.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Dammit. You can get x2 vintage JBL 4345 monitors in good condition, replace the diaphragms on the compression drivers (always assume these are bad despite "condition", unless recently replaced with real JBL parts), a Dangerous Music Convert-2 DAC, and a pair of Aegirs for x2 KH420.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  20. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No brand truly does across sizes even if they keep the same driver materials. Not even ATC.

    KH120 is muddy, boxy crapola but I’d still take them over almost all headphones. KH310 and KH420 are great speakers but truly overpriced for what you are getting without any of the insane technicalities of other brands and expensive stuff even if the KH310 is awesome at upper bass and low mids.
    theyre massively overpriced and boring. I’d take some cheaper stuff and a set of beer fields over the 420 any day or save for baller stuff that doesn’t use Irish made, Sennheiser qc passed clones of Chinese drivers
     

Share This Page