Raspberry Pi2 and Hifiberry Digi+: A cheap transport that made me happier

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Vastx, Apr 26, 2016.

  1. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Yep, was a little anti-climatic ;)

    https://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/articles/213227645

    If you look closely at my piZERO, 5V & 3.3V are not connected anyway :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  2. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    ...In relation to the Kali FPGA, re: the iffy, this is after the fact (it's already spdif) -- have more to say later on the Kali--
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  3. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    I read the thread but still have a few questions....

    Background: I currently use a recent Mac Mini with external HDs, running Audirvana. I mostly use use Audirvana to access Tidal as my iTunes library likes to regularly lose stuff. Probably 97% of the stuff I own is on Tidal, so I thought I might just rip my other CDs to a SD card and try a Raspberry Pi. Currently I use USB out from the Mac to a Yggdrasil, but would just connect a RP3 via coax.

    I just bought a RP3 plus the HiFiBerry Digi+ with transformer. It should arrive this weekend. I'm going to start off with a basic SMPS and maybe upgrade to better power later.

    1. microSD comes with NOOBS. Do I need this to get started or can I just go straight to loading a music OS?
    2. Which Music OS is preferred now? I know this may be a loaded question and maybe some still won't work with RP3b. Sound quality is the highest priority, next priority is the UI.
    3. I'm going to re-rip some cds with this. Maybe that influences the choice for #2.
    4. I have one of those Apple USB Superdrives. Can I use that to rip my cds on a RP3b or do I need to buy something else more suitable?
    5. I want to start off with the (limited) music library on microSD. If I like whats going on I may upgrade to a NAS later. Is there any advantage/disadvantage to this approach?
    6. Do any of the Music OS distros incorporate Tidal, or will I need to do a web interface?

    Thanks guys.
     
  4. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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    Answers from me somewhat limited Rpi experience, assuming you're kind of new to the whole thing (apologies if I'm talking below your level of experience).

    1: You don't "upgrade" operating systems with the Rpi the way you might be used to with a laptop or desktop, you just use a flash writer app to write over the top of the old OS on the flash card you're using for your Pi. Some people keep multiple flash cards around so that can use different OSes.

    2: That's the $10,00 question for sure. I've used Rune (not Roon :) ) and Volumio and find Rune to be more mature and stable, while Volumio has a beguilingly simple, clean UI. Overall I prefer Rune. There are many other choices though, and I hope others contribute their favorites.

    4: I rip CDs using dbpoweramp software (runs on my mac, not on the Rpi) and a plain jane external USB CD reader/writer. I can recommend this approach because the ripping engine dbpoweramp uses is really good.

    5: You should be fine either way. In my experience some builds of Volumio have had trouble inventorying a large NAS file share over ethernet but have inventoried the same file share fine over wifi. So aside from OS build-specific peculiaraties like that you should be fine either way. If you're updating your music library often with new music you'll have to pull the music card from your Pi, update it on your computer, and then move it back to your Pi or use a network-based update approach like ssh+rsync (I use this and it works but is mega-slow).

    6: none that I know of, though some incorporate spotify. Almost all Rpi music OSes have a Upnp/DLNA/Airplay endpoint built in, so you can use one of those protocols to send music from your computer to the Rpi and on to your DAC.

    Edit: also, if you have a Schiit Wyrd around, that can serve as a pseudo-LPS for a Rpi, though the extra power required by the Rpi3 vs the Rpi2 might be a problem with the Wyrd.
     
  5. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    Thank you @philipmorgan that was extremely helpful.

    The Tidal thing isn't a big deal because I can just switch sources on the Yggdrasil between USB (Mac) and Coax (RP3).

    I'll have to look into dbpoweramp. Are there some settings that you can tailor so that when you try to rip a CD it doesn't try to default to loading iTunes? And maybe my existing USB Drive will still work (without iTunes) for loading up the SD card. I'll give that a go before I buy anything else.

    I don't have a Wyrd. I have a Regen that I think is around 6v or so...was maybe considering that $50 iFi power supply if it anyone knows how it compares to a cheapo, or I might go to a LPS eventually.
     
  6. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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    Probably, but I haven't bothered to figure out. I pop in the CD, wait for iTunes open up, close iTunes, then do my thing with dbpoweramp.

    Mad respect to those for whom it is not, but for me comparing different LPS's is camping too close to the capital city of Audiophilianervosastan for my comfort. Also... my chain is relatively laid back and may not accentuate the small differences that make one LPS sound better than another.

    Anyway, the general consensus is that the Digi+ does benefit from an LPS. I think @Vastx has tried enough options there to offer an informed opinion. I actually have one of those iFi wall-wart LPS things and can't really tell you if it lives up to their marketing language or not. Their "quieter than a battery" claim comes across a bit hypeish to me.
     
  7. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    I agree with you on the LPS. It seems a bit silly to spend several hundred dollars on a PS for a ~$100 computer. Then again, if it really made all the difference I might consider. But my first approach is to try the basic system and see where it goes.
     
  8. Kolohe

    Kolohe Facebook Friend

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    @crazychile , I would agree with everything in @philipmorgan's response. I've added a few comments of my own:

    1: It's a good idea to have a spare uSD card already flashed with the music player OS as the cards can become corrupt when not properly shutdown (e.g. power outage).

    2: I too use Rune and like it quite a bit. Have heard good things about Moode Player and might play around with it the next time I'm bored. I'm not sure if any sound better than the others, if they deliver bit perfect data I'm happy with that.

    4: Another dbPoweramp supporter here, I've ripped over 7000 CD tracks to FLAC, it's fast and I've never had a problem with it.

    5: I would be hesitant to load my music library on the same uSD card as the OS since corruption is not uncommon. Perhaps you could load your library on a thumb drive instead. I've taken a different approach than most people by directly attaching a USB powered hard drive directly to the RPi. The goal was to avoid transferring the music files over the network thereby eliminating some of the noted problems (clicks, pops, stutters). Configured this way, I only use WiFi to send UI commands. Music files are loaded on the hard drive by either directly attaching it to my PC or over the network (via samba).

    6: If you have any Android devices you could use the BubbleUPnP app to send Tidal to Rune (with UPnP/DLNA enabled). Airplay is an option for iOS users. I don't use Tidal so I can't attest to how satisfying the experience is.
     
  9. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    More great info, Kolohe. thanks.

    Thanks for the tip on multiple SD cards, I figured I would do that anyway. How big does a card need to be to store the OS? Initially I'll probably only need 32GB to store the ~50 cds I can't get on Tidal, but if the OS will fit on 4GB it's cheap enough to keep a few of those around. How important is it for the card to be class 10?

    I like your idea of connecting the hard drive directly. I might eventually do that as that's what I did with my iTunes library.

    I plan on ripping to FLAC from now on. I've been using WAV in the iTunes library but want to have the embedded metadata with FLAC. Has anyone tried a WAV to FLAC converter? Wondering if they might funk up the sound, but it might be easier than ripping a bunch of CDs again.
     
  10. Kolohe

    Kolohe Facebook Friend

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    IIRC, Rune suggests at least a 4GB card, but I went with 8GB just because they're so cheap. I tried a Class 4 vs. a Class 10 card and the difference in bootup time was only a couple of seconds. If you're going to be loading music from the card then it might be better to stick with the faster cards.

    See pic below of my USB HD attached to RPi3 w/Digi+. It's great for transporting my entire music library when demoing other people's DAC/amps/headphones (as long as they let you on their WiFi networks!).

    dBpoweramp comes with Music Converter and Batch Converter utilities which allow you to converter between just about any format you can imagine. I've only converted a handful of files from wav to FLAC and could not detect any degredation in the sound quality but haven't done enough conversions to swear that's always the case.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    Nice looking case. I got a plain black steel one but its kinda fugly.

    Thanks for the dbpoweramp utilities tip. I was looking at another program to try the conversion but thats even better.
     
  12. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    So all my parts came in and I got the RP3b assembled with the HiFiBerry Digi+, put the RuneAudio image on the card per directions, and it went full on Kernel Panic when I tried to load it. I tried to repair my SanDisk card, but it's just plain bad.

    Have any of you guys had exceptionally great results with certain brands of cards? Any to stay away from?

    I've got some lab equipment at work that seems to despise Sandisk USB sticks, but Kingston always works. I'm wondering if these micro SDHC cards follow any similar patterns.
     
  13. MrButchi

    MrButchi Gear Master Europe

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    @philipmorgan : Audiophilianervosastan
    Nice one. I hope this one sticks!
     
  14. Kolohe

    Kolohe Facebook Friend

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    I've used Samsung EVO class 10 and Kingston class 4 without any problems from either.
     
  15. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    ...achievement, ..... *unlocked* :p

    I give you one standard hifiberry digi+

    * forced into hardware config mode

    * set to slave mode in hardware

    * kali MCLK pin29 --> digi+ MCLK pin36

    All with jumpers ;)

    sitting & working on the Kali (using the generic ES9023 driver) note... this is usually dead air, kali can't deal with master mode hat's

    ( it did take an oscilloscope to slowly figure this out, the wm8804 datasheet & pin layout. What can I say, was bored this morning )

    It's playing music!


    (signals look crappy 'cause resolution goes down on the scope the more channels you use... can't get the full 1Gig samples/sec)
    channel4 is spdif, then continues on to a Dac, listening now:

    [​IMG]

    May be very interesting option for Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil -- hard to say if this is worthwhile yet, up against what the WM8804 limits are, it may inject 50ps timing no matter that, we'll see!

    FYI, the kali is an FPGA FIFO buffer designed for, and measured at 2ps timing that is clocking i2s with a few logic gates... effectively decoupling it from any linux OS, networking, etc's influence.. it's like a mini RTOS with a couple logic gates.

    @Iancanada has a similar non pi version, and he's working on a pi version.

    ...and PSAudio's DMP has this concept in it, they even have a video on it... big bucks & SACD of course... all I keep thinking is, their fpga board is in the wrong place... they make you use an expensive HDMI cable! ugh!

    also post here:

    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-new-fifo-buffer-rpi-sbcs-52.html#post4910946



    PS. yep, did add i2s to a moby, and that's ultimately the format it should stay in... any conversion out of that is potentially a compromise, right?!?, but let's see how pure we can get spdif :D -- still love my PSAudio DL3, and bet you guys could get interesting results with Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil & others.

    And this is a bit of prep work I did before explaining myself to @Michael Kelly. His boards are close to baked/finalized, would be nice to have a jumper to simplify setting ext MCLK/i2s in like I did here, and to coordinate GPIO pin's

    ---There is actually a baby piZERO hiding under that kali.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  16. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    The Soerkris R2R DAC has I2S input and a bazillion other customizations. Maybe using that would save some headache of messing with the Modi MB, at least for the experimental phase.
     
  17. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Nothing so exotic as that soerkris, but do have a tiny "sacrificial" sabre ess9023 dac... that has i2s in only. It is helping me along the way. I'll take another look at the soerkris.... Thanks!

    It's that little yellow board:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  18. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Feels good to remove things ;) no need for that buzzing 27Mhz onboard crystal (X1) anymore in this mode, on top of the Kali...booop, removed:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  19. dorkus

    dorkus New

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    Hi Scott - I have a spare Digi+ and a Kali sitting around now that I'm running a Digi+ Pro, so I'm interested in this mod. If I understand correctly, it only requires jumpers and (optionally) desoldering the crystal?

    btw, I noticed the most recent description of the Digi+ Pro mentions a "low noise regulator," and if you look at pictures of the latest production version (which I have) there's an extra device U2 which could be a LDO?

    https://www.hifiberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/digiplus_pro.jpg

    When I have a chance I can trace it to confirm.

    cheers,
    marc
     
  20. Sherm

    Sherm Acquaintance

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    For a few years now I've been looking for a quieter transport than my desktop computer that doesn't rely on USB, and thanks to this thread I've finally found something that doesn't break the bank (I'm looking at you, USB defuckifiers). I've been using SPDIF out of my desktop and resorted to using the USB out of my laptop to get away from all of the ambient noise that my desktop puts out. Just received my Digi+ Pro yesterday and got everything set up, and initial impressions are definitely good. I wasn't expecting much of an improvement other than a silent listening environment, but I'm pleasantly surprised to say that there is an improvement over the SPDIF out of my desktop, and definitely an improvement over the USB out of my laptop.

    I just finished doing a side-to-side comparison between the USB out from my laptop and the SPDIF from the Digi. The sound stage is just a hair wider, the leading edge of instruments clearer and sharper (particularly cymbals and electronic guitar), bass resolution is better without the hint of "mud" I detected before, and the impact of percussion is improved. I don't even care about the mid-bass bloat induced by the HD650 rear foam removal anymore. I daresay I'm finding more of that plankton everyone talked about here and at CS. The best thing I can say about this pi and Digi combo, though, is there are some songs that I've been skipping in the shuffle for a long time now, mostly because they're either overly compressed or just not very high resolution, but I find myself enjoying them again now that I have something more transparent on the sending end.

    Other than the sonic improvements, it's honestly been fun tweaking with Linux again. I've become too complacent with Windows these last couple years, and brushing up on my command line knowledge is a nice change of pace. This is easily the best $100 I've dropped on audio gear in quite some time.
     

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