Realism, fullness, open-backs, and chasing the Orpheus.

I have Utopia and hd800 sbaf and sdr modded. Like Purrin says, the hd800 unmodded is not listenable. you need to first mod them. sdr is a good start but still not enough. it was only after sba mod that I began to be able to deal with the treble. Then, id still find them really boring due to too reserved bass so I use analog EQ via via my ifi pro ican, the hd800 actually sounds fuller then utopia now, with the mids a bit more recessed then Utopia, but id say its more that utopia have forward mids.

You say you have tried EQ'uing the hd800. how? via dsp and digital EQ? if so, digital EQ while solving one issue (hd800 bass) creates other issue related to digital trickering. best to use analog EQ

 

I would say Harbeths become unusable once recordings start to get real bass punch dynamics and sub-bass in the mid 80s, the start of CDs. Better solid state circuitry and speakers slowly getting better helped too. 70s studio Judas Priest albums are so flat; the live Unleashed in the East sounds way better. Compare early Iron Maiden to the Japan pressings of Powerslave and Somewhere in Time and there's just a massive difference in punch and weight.

Same with early Motorhead to the first Metallica and Slayer CDs. Dave Lombardo is whoa

Once you hear a good midrange dome, you can't go back and become relentlessly critical of two way speakers and headphones. Very few two ways are legitimately good; most are mediocre. Now three ways without compressed dynamics from shit tons of passive crossover parts or shitty early 2000s class dick? Whoa

 

I could not get into the HD800S long-term no matter how much EQ I applied. Weight/body/fullness was far too thin and once I heard what real slam was like on the Mjo2 with the LCD-XC it was an awakening. Plus I realized I want to enjoy the music and not evaluate it. Some people like that, just not for me.

Basically, just because the TV is 8K resolution doesn't mean I enjoy watching the movie more.

HD650 doesn't have the slam I'd love but has plenty of detail, timbre that sounds right and overall just enjoyable. Helps they're cheap, relatively speaking. It's also why I can't really wrap my head around $2000+ USD headphones when the 650 is like a 1/10 the price.

 

After this thread I aimed my sights at finding a headphone that could pull off these qualities and still be considered TOTL, which meant open backs. After attending an event and trying everything I could get my hands on I found myself with two options: the Sennheiser HE-1 at a ludicrous £50k (errr, nope), or hunting for a deal on a Focal Utopia. It has some trade offs to overcome of it’s own, notably it’s timbre, but I’ve been going strong with the Utopia for over a year now and for the first time since going down the rabbit hole I’m not constantly looking for something better. The other Focals are also great in this regard though not TOTL, and I’m thankful that they came on to the market or I’d have continued banging my head against a wall for quite some time.

I’ve not had a chance to try any but I reckon the semi open back ZMFs (Auteur/Nipnops/Verite) may be a good option too. I got an LCD-2C a while back, then demoed the Audeze and Stax TOTLs, and then spent some more time with the 2C. They’re not a viable path, nor Hifiman, well extended bass and all their presentation is just too light. Planar potentials I’ve yet to hear are the HE-6, Abyss 1266, and Verum 1.

So far these qualities seem to be most common in dynamics with powerful motors and stiff diaphragms + surround. Tending to be the most capable of dynamic punch and slam.

Stock HD800, EQ or not, still sucks donkey balls. It’s like a drag racer, exceptionally good if you’re only going in a straight line. EQ is helpful but it is no magic bullet. Some primarily instrumental genres are much less of an issue though, but for anyone reading this thread with interest they are by far the worst option possible out of everything mentioned. The HD650 has many positive qualities and isn’t bad with tactility and such but it lacks resolution, bass quality and extension, is limited in it’s treble performance, and congested due to the front foams. Mods are better but they only go so far. Many would be better off moving on from them if only they were willing to embrace a combination of EQ and a little soft modding.

Caveat: I’ve yet to hear either from a full tube amp, or a decent high impedance output. Keeping ahold of them until I do, but I am doubtful that my mind will be blown.

I’m using the Behringer DEQ2496. It’s lovely piece of gear with actual physical controls and a simple elegant interface. I’ve learnt plenty futzing around with it, being better able to focus on other qualities like timbre and presentation once tonality has been adjusted for.

 

the good thing with Utopia is that they are good everywhere, but they have issues on their own: metallic timbre, bit bright, small soundstage. I personally cannot say which I prefer between hd800 modded + passive eq bass boost vs Utopia: they are at the same level imo and very different.
Problem with hd800 is that I cannot upgrade my headphone amp, I feel im stuck with the ifi offering with their bass boost.

 

Which ifi are you using? If it’s one of their portables then you absolutely need a desktop amp with some voltage grunt to begin to hear what it can really do.

Half the reason I got the Mj2 was due to it’s reputation for bass and slam, in the hopes I could get what I wanted out of the HD800. It helped, as did EQ, but it was still very far from what I was after and still ultimately thin in presentation, even if technically not in tonallity.

I know a higher impedence output can thicken the sound up, and that the high voltage nature of pure tube amps are more suitable to high impedance dynamics. But given my experience would you say there’s any chance such an amp could change my mind?

 

Had a Mjo2/Gungnir Multibit-A balanced throughout with the HD800S. Hefty bass and slam were attributes that never came up.

 

I commend your effort in trying to find the answer. I always overlooked the Utopia because from what I read it didn't sound like it would be suitable. After having read on Inner Fidelity Bob Katz's thoughts on the LCD-4 and Utopia as well as that shootout with engineers I was further put off the Utopia and more interested in the LCD-4. But as I understand it, there was something wrong with the Utopia they tested.

I've just got the pre-fazor LCD-2 and the pre-fazor LCD-3 is also coming my way (both of which I've owned before) for curiosity more than anything else now that I've got my source and amp sorted. I doubt these will be the answer. Well, the LCD-2.2 isn't anyway, it's surprisingly more neutral and transparent than I remember though.

I'm probably going to have to try the LCD-4, Auteur, Utopia and the soon to be released ZMF cans.

 

when I compare Utopia vs hd800 modded, the hd800 lacks some serious balls. to me hd800 benefit greatly to bass boost.

ifi pro ican. the Xbass implementation is amazing and enough power

 

I wanted to edit my previous post but seem to be unable to. Now I've spent a bit more time with the LCD2.2 and am running on more than 5 hours sleep, I've got to say these are pretty damn good and are clearly better than I remember my old 2.2s sounding. This one is from 2011 and the previous one I had from 2013. I think this is one of the early 2.2s judging by the presence of wood connectors.

It has that upper bass, lower mids richness I'm looking for (although perhaps a tad overdone) that provides a good weight to instruments yet is also faster, cleaner and has tighter bass than I remember. There's treble roll off but the treble is smooth, and I'd take roll off over peakiness every single day, as I seem to be overly sensitive to higher frequencies. Anything that overly sticks out ruins the experience for me, which is also why this tightness in bass is another welcome surprise to how I remember the 2.2s sounding. Dynamic nuance could be better. If the LCD-3 or 4 manage to maintain the best points of the 2.2 while providing more air without being peaky as well as improving its dynamic nuance it could be a winner.

I love the HD650K for slower music, and in particular female vocals, but for music that has more of a bass emphasis, this LCD-2.2 gives me what I was missing. Given that female vocals encompass 70-80% of my listening this isn't an issue. But put the LCD-2.2 on with some rock or male vocals and it wins. Sinatra's voice sounds deliciously rich, for example.

LCD-3 pre-fazor and ZMF Auteur on the way.

 

There's a cynical side of me that can't help but wonder if what the OP is after is some kind of euphonic chassis resonance or something similarly esoteric that you wouldn't expect to make for good sound. Similarly, for awhile I've wondered if claims of the HD800 being picky about it's source is really just down to the HD800 getting a sizeable mid/upper bass boost from amps with high output impedance. I had this funny idea about claiming to be a long time audio hobbyist who had made an inline device that improves synergy with the HD800 and send a few out for reviews. The device would just be a resistor on each line hidden in a bunch of potting compound to hold onto my "trade secrets". I have a few sites who I think would be completely duped by it.

 

That may be part of it, but also let's be honest an 800 out of a chain with elevated treble is an experience akin to skull trepanning, and that's easier than not if you go for analytical source gear.

 

I don't agree with the HD800 needing an amp that boost frequencies. Stellaris/HD800 is a force to be reckoned with and that amp is as neutral as they come.

 

#1 is a good point, and the HD650 & HD800 are those references - I will try to remember this before I bitch next time

#3 is an important point as well. Fact is most hobbyist AND "professional" reviewers are not very good at this at all. I certainly can't do it very well.