RME ADI-2 DAC

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Luckbad, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Abhishek Chowdhary

    Abhishek Chowdhary Friend

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    Had the priviledge of listening to the RME ADI DAC. Thanks to an extended loaner from @Arun Kumar .

    So this thing is much smaller than it appears in pictures. Same size as that as a set top box. Build is extremely light for a $1k product. To make it worse the buttons are not feather touch and the entire unit moves while playing with the software

    Speaking of DSP features, It has tonnes of it. Experienced digital filters first time and they shift tonality tiny bit. Much less artificial than using a software eq.

    How does it sound:

    Amp section - Warmish, easy, goes loud. Qualitywise its similar to the standard solid state portable chinese amps. But amp is just an added bonus so need not be critical about it.

    DAC section:
    1) Single ended fed by desktop USB - Thin tone and occasionally splashy treble, sub bass is present but doesnt have authority, some uneven emphasis on mid bass, searched for but dynamics and microdynamics are both absent leading to a boring sound that's very clean but devoid of life. USB isn't doing any favours to this dac. Paul Simon sounded like an 18yr old kid.

    2) Moved to COAX fed by an ancient Digigram VX222v2 PCI sound card - Not as thin, resolves much more than the USB, bass gains some body, but lack of microdynamics is even more evident now. Mids have more of shout due to lack of any richness, treble is not peaky but still edgy and thin with somewhat synthetic timbre. Fair dynamics (vs USB) but even a Modi Multibit would outdo. This thing is just flat, source change did improve it but barely effective.

    3) Single ended vs balanced - Balanced is much energetic but loses on nuances. It's loud all over , subtleties are lost that single ended regains somewhat.


    This unit excels at being very feature rich but if it's primary purpose is that of a DAC, better can be had for the price. I honestly think most of the asking price is due to the DSP and other bundled features. When I first saw it , that .1 lbs power supply for the unit was already an indicator of the DACs performance.
     
  2. Greg121986

    Greg121986 Almost "Made"

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    I have to agree mostly with the above. I only have USB option as a source, but this thing just does not give me any good feelings as I listen to it. Balanced out to Auralic Taurus MKII, Focal Clear and Elear with all sorts of balanced or single ended aftermarket cables. I'm trying it now with an iFI power supply. So, so dull. I'm impressed with it's tinyness, features, and outstanding measurements but it is not exciting to listen to.
     
  3. Abhishek Chowdhary

    Abhishek Chowdhary Friend

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    I was asked to write a balanced review, else could have summarized it into 3-4 words.
     
  4. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    Interesting. I found the RME USB implementation to be very good and the ADI-2 to essentially be input agnostic.

    The amp was a little utilitarian, but serviceable for easily driven headphones and IEMs.

    The DAC was resolving with a super black background and made no major sins of commission.

    What other gear were you using it with to form your impressions?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  5. Abhishek Chowdhary

    Abhishek Chowdhary Friend

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    Could have been noisy USB on the desktop but I remember listening to it via a Dell Latitude 5480 laptop USB and wasn't impressed either.

    USB vs Coax via digigram had stark differences, so ADI2 isn't immune to USB issues

    The DAC does have black background but doesn't resolve much. Detail is all there but for me if microdynamics are absent I cant call it resolving. Even sabre DACs are detailed but hardly resolve. And not the the missing richness , it sounds absolutely flat. I couldn't get any volume change in the tracks I am familiar with and know where the dynamics swing.

    What I am currently using is an Adcom GDA600 DAC, 6SN7 DIY OTL and an Aniso Yamaha HP1
     
  6. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    Resolution isn’t at the level of Yggdrasil or Pavane, but it seems to avoid the tendency towards hard-edges-as-resolution of other DS DACs that I have heard.

    I recently had Genelec 8351 in my setup and the amount of low level information they extracted from music with ADI-2 was pretty astonishing.

    Imaging was precise with reasonable dimension but spatial cues, ‘hearing the room’ and nuance are also certainly a level below the Metrum and Schiit R2R DACs.
     
  7. Collusion

    Collusion Friend

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    Sorry for OT: Wouldn't it make more sense to use the Genelecs with a digital transport, since they do A/D conversion for incoming analog signals? Unless, of course, you are actually using the Adi-2 Pro model with AES/EBU output...

    To not completely ruin this thread, I've also had a change to demo the ADI-2 against my Modi Multibit+Jotunheim stack. Short story is, I prefer the Schiit combination. RME has more artificial timbre, but it has some other strengths though. Will post more tomorrow after I get some ZZZZZs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  8. FishCommander

    FishCommander New

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    The built in amp on the RME would not be as dynamic as your jot stack but with headphones or speakers that are properly amp'd the RME will be more resolving and have better extension than the Modi Multibit.
     
  9. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    The AD in Genelecs appears to be really good. It makes little sense to use a bling-bling dac with those nevertheless.

    I have come to the same conclusion with the DSP Genelecs.
    The 'analog' ones surpass the DSP ones in microdetail and naturalness with totl source.
     
  10. Collusion

    Collusion Friend

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    More on ADI-2 DAC vs Modi Multibit+Jotunheim. Modi Multibit and Jotunheim have their own respective sonic characteristics, but for this comparison I am treating them as a combination. I am listening with Genelec 8030 monitors and HifiMan Sundara headphones. Both dacs were connected with a toslink cable to an ESI Juli@ sound card on a desktop rig. Schiit units were connected with Monster Cable Essential RCA's. Music was practically always played via Tidal. I feel my experiences below can be applied to both speaker and headphone listening... I also might just be too lazy to point out differences between these two right now, so it's possible more will follow later.

    Tonal balance:
    - The Schiit combination seems to have somewhat attenuated top end. This robs some air/sparkle from the presentation.
    - Upper midrange / lower treble on the Schiit combo is maybe slightly pronounced.
    - RME has probably the more neutral tonal balance of these two, but there is still some muddiness/darkness in the lower midrange / upper bass region.

    Detail / accuracy:
    - Overall, I feel RME has the edge here. Especially as we go upper on the frequency spectrum. You just hear minute details here and there, that seem to be omitted from the Schiit presentation.
    - Not sure if it is because of the tonal balance, but there seem to be detail missing from the top end of the Schiit combo compared against lower frequencies.
    - Schiits have a solid bottom end with good amount of kick and rhythmic drive. Not sure if it is actually on par with RME, it just might give this impression.

    "Musicality" / Sweetness / Glow
    - Neither one of these two has a "colored" presentation. If I had to point out one for being more euphonic, I'd say it's the Schiit combo, but not by a large margin by any means. Also, it may well be the other technicalities that make me think so.

    Imaging / soundstage:
    - RME renders its soundstage on a flat 2D surface, Schiit combo has some depth.
    - Everything is defined better on RME width wise. Schiit's depth information is quite sketchy, but it easily wins RME in this regard ( as RME has none depth ).
    - RME seems to have more height information.
    - RME sounds thinner, Schiit combo thicker/fuller.
    - Musical instruments have more air around them played through Schiit combo. This may sound counterintuitive, but it is what I am hearing nevertheless.

    Dynamics
    - Regardless of how much of detail these units can actually render, I feel Schiit combo has the edge here. Overall presentation seems to be livelier with the Schiit combo due to better macrodynamics.
    - Even if RME digs deeper, especially in the top end, I feel Schiit combo manages to present minute detail more convincingly by creating bigger deviations in volume [1].
    - RME just sounds a tad flat in comparison.

    Timbre
    - Schiit combo seems to have some tonal grayness / haze somewhere in the midrange. I promised to review Schiit units as a combination, but I happen to know this is because of Modi Multibit.
    - Schiit combo seems to present pre and post tone/pluck information more prominently.
    - Overall and IMO Schiit combo wins. If instruments were to be presented as paper shapes, the ones produced by Schiit would be cut with scissors and the ones by RME torn by hand. There is this weird, unnatural fine fizzle around tones produced by RME. Trademark of many D/S dacs for sure, but many devices [2], in my opinion, sound better/cleaner than RME in this regard, even if slightly colored.

    Summary
    I had two friends come over today. Both of them preferred RME over the Schiit combo. I do not share this sentiment, partly because I might be biased towards multibit dacs and even owned some serious kilobuck units [3] until very recently. But we all have our own preferences. This means, you should always demo devices before buying, if possible.

    Music used for comparison (for example, not a complete list by any means):
    John Coltrane - My Favourite Things
    Joan Osborne - Relish
    The Modern Jazz Quartet - Blues on Back
    White Willow - Ex Tenebris

    [1] I wonder if there can be such thing as exaggerated dynamics. There certainly seems to be a general sentiment about exaggerated detail produced by certain types of converter chips.

    [2] Like a Chord Hugo, for example. Unlike RME, It certainly has fucked up top end, but somehow it manages to sound better timbre wise, IMO. It is more colored though.

    [3] MSB Signature IV Plus. Didn't fully satisfy my SQ standards, but oh boy, wasn't it the cleanest sounding thing ever.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  11. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    Genelecs were connected to analog output of ADI-2 so I can’t comment on the performance relative to the onboard converters. My previous experience with DS DACs is that there is very little differentiation, assuming they haven’t fucked something up.

    EDIT: Actually, I am confused by your question. The Genelecs do AD conversion? I just assumed analog input remained analog and the AES input utilised onboard DA conversion.

    Have you compared Modibit/Jotun to RME/Jotun?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  12. Genlecous

    Genlecous New

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    Genelec first converts the analog signal into digital, next does some DSP, and finally converts it back to analog and into the amplifier. The sound quality, either digital or analog, is identical. But that doesn't relegates the external DAC to obsoleteness. If your outboard DAC is superior to Genelc's, you'll have better sound. It's hard to tell though. A lot of costly experimentations...

    If you want to feed the Genelec a digital signal it has to be AES. Yellowtek PUC2 or Tascam UH-7000 will come handy. No point to invest in a high end DAC with the same capability, as the process bypasses or internal number crunching.
     
  13. I_want_all_the_tacos

    I_want_all_the_tacos Friend

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    @Collusion - I second this question/request if you don't mind. I am planning on getting the RME and want to use it both as an all-in-one as well as just a DAC with some other standalone amps. I am curious to understand how the RME's DAC portion compares against Modi Multibit and to hear if your impressions of differences are more related to the DAC or the amp section. Pairing RME with Jot could shed some light on that and also help give a comparison of how the built-in amp stacks up head-to-head against Jot.
     
  14. Collusion

    Collusion Friend

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    I have, but mainly with speakers (using Jotunheim as a preamp, that is). This was mainly to evaluate the differences between the two dacs. I'll be posting more impressions soon on how things sound with headphones, as a Burson Conductor V2 will be joining the flock on Tuesday.

    So there will be at least three setups to be compared:
    RME ADI-2 DAC -> headphones
    RME ADI-2 DAC -> Schiit Jotunheim -> headphones
    RME ADI-2 DAC -> Burson Conductor V2 -> headphones

    By the way, I also happen to have Sennheiser HD650's and AKG K702's available for testing. I do prefer the Sundaras, but if someone wants to hear impressions about system synergy, it is also possible.

    Just now I've done some listening with Sundaras via Jotunheim using RME as a dac. I greatly prefer the Jotunheim as HP amp. Weird timbre of the RME seems to vanish, bottom end gains some more oomph and the sound seems to generally get more balanced and dynamic. The resolution increase provided by RME (vs Modi Multibit) can still be heard, but I've a feeling Jotunheim cannot fully resolve everything RME has to offer. I think Jotunheim has very slightly warmish midrange and bottom end. Let's see what happens with the Conductor V2...
     
  15. Anaz

    Anaz New

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    I agree with your previous observations about the ADI-2 DAC's amp and prefer the ADI-2 DAC as a DAC to an rHead amp (or MCTH). However, try the ADI-2's amp output with the DSP's loudness function switched on, you might like the added sparkle and low end - I mainly do this for listening to IEMs.
     
  16. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    I especially like the variable loudness for lower volume listening.
     
  17. FishCommander

    FishCommander New

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    I agree, this does have a positive effect. I didn't notice added sparkle (although I wasn't listening for that) but, I did notice it helped a little with the lack of dynamics.
     
  18. FishCommander

    FishCommander New

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    Very cool. I found 650's a bit thick and not very exciting sounding coming out of the built in amp. HD800(s) imo pairs really well with the unit, and only get's better (I imagine) with different amplification.

    I like to think of the RME as two things 1) a compact AIO 2) a good DS DAC. Although I think most people who would buy one would use it as an AIO or something they could travel with if needed, I could be wrong here. Looking forward to more of your impressions with another amp is what I'm getting at ;).

    Not to come in and take over the thread but here is what I am doing currently.
    [​IMG]

    Much like @I_want_all_the_tacos, I am using the unit as convenient, flexible AIO while I look around and save up for a better tube amp.

    Some initial impressions of mine... I posted elsewhere

    Trying out the Vali2 with the RME Adi-2 DAC: The RME amp is more resolving, very neutral especially over USB, good extension in both directions. The downside to the unit as an AIO is that it isn't dynamic enough for some. The Vali2 once warmed up is noticeably more dynamic, even on low gain. The Vali's extension, in both directions is lacking comparatively. Your mileage may also vary based on the tube used. I'm using a vintage Siemens tube and I find that (again) after warmed up there isn't much unwanted distortion.

    Also while its also just a convenience thing... I didn't realize I needed a remote until this unit showed up on my door.
     
  19. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Thought I publish some impressions from a recent mini-meet I was in.

    My goal was to check out a pair of speakers a friend of mine had built for some guy. The owner of these speakers wanted to hear if there's a difference between his CA Dacmagic 100 and my RME ADI-2 PRO AE.

    The basic setup was Dacmagic/ADI-2 PRO -> some QSC PA amp -> custom 4-way 18+12+5+1" ported speaker

    Source devices were voltage matched to hundredth of a volt. Test was blind with only the switch operator knowing which device is which. I and 2 other blokes were sitting approx. at the sweetspot and listening to 15 - 20s fragments of various music. Test tracks were some old jazz, Alphaville - Sounds Like A Melody, some audiophile male vocal+strings crap from a B&W demo CD, Norah Jones - Don't Know Why, Opeth - Demon of the Fall and Snoop Dogg Smoke weed every day (dubstep remix).

    Notes:
    1. Dacmagic always sounded about 1dB louder than the ADI-2 Pro, we actually had to recalibrate voltages to make sure nothing is wrong, even double checked on multiple DMM's
    2. Difference between the two DACs was proportionate to the complexity of test tracks, with Norah Jones, jazz and B&W male vocal test participants were most unsure of preferences and one actually liked the Dacmagic more as it sounded "more dynamic and music came out harmonically richer and larger"
    3. On Alphaville - Sounds Like A Melody with Dacmagic playing, highs had a pronounced glare, most audible on sweeps
    4. Opeth - Deamon of the Fall was unlistenable on Dacmagic and some of the listeners started blaming the recording being bad. After switching to ADI-2 Pro the difference was staggering with individual instruments appearing from what previously was a roaring mess
    5. The Snoop Dogg track was a crappy rip from Youtube, hence we weren't surprised to clearly hear lossy compression hash. The surprise came when the hash became almost inaudible on the ADI-2 Pro. This time we cranked the music up to nightclub levels and Dacmagic made our ears hurt, whilst ADI-2 Pro had that effect you have in well equipped clubs - you can converse with people, if no vocals or strings are present in the mix
    Conclusions:
    1. Unsurprisingly, RME ADI-2 Pro turned out to be the better device with differences being well audible
    2. High quality tracks with few isolated instruments proved to be unsuitable or even detrimental for determining playback device quality
    3. Counter-intuitively lossy compression artefacts were more audible (exaggerated) on the lesser DAC
    4. Higher THD will sound louder, make certain isolated sounds tonally richer, yet will fall apart with complex content as harmonics pile up into a sort of noise floor
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  20. knackedupdude

    knackedupdude New

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    I'm excited to have this come my way.
     

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