SBAF DAC Talk II

That sounds dope. I cook my steel cut oats until the water all evaporates and then eat it with buttermilk's. I’ll have to throw in some liquor sometime.

If they can kill velvet sound veil and get AD1955, pre ds+r2r hybrid TI/BB dynamics, or Wolfson type dynamics then this could be dope. American muscle car sound steamrolls Fiat.

The problem will be cost. AKM spiked the chip prices post AK4490 halfway to ESS Sabre for stuff that sounds worse than Analog Devices at least 15 year old AD1955 and with less balls than the also old CS4398 or let’s face it, a Cirrus codec chip. AK primarily makes fertilizer so I don’t get it.

 

Tbf some DIY person could probably make an opus with the convert 2 I/v and output stage and a decent usb receiver, could probably be as good as Wolfson will get without overspending. Even stuff like that teddy dac with upgraded usb looks overpriced.

Whatever that Jetpll clocking thing in seems to work wonders outperforming these ultra stable atomic clock things, which are atomic clocks for long term (decades) and not short term stability (usually inherently good)
It seems to provide the results without needing pricey exotic components.

On a side note I've found burr brown has this consistent timbre which I just can't stand. It's very hard to describe. Mid decay is smoother than ad but doesn't trail for long and sort of sounds a bit humped.
I should probably take some notes next time I hear one.

Akm "veil" is more how they describe it themselves, "velvet sound".
Most of the cheaper stuff is just hazey and warm, which is why I use my geekout instead, I can live with it's compromises better.
I could live with the rme though, since it doesn't have the haze and over the top soft warmth.
The tone was on point, the bass levels were normal and I could hear body and texture. It just carried on the softer impacts from the cheaper gear. It's not like it decays way too fast or had the plasticity of ba iems.
It's dynamics are sort of similar to what you hear when you compare an active and passive crossover, where the transients are a bit softer, it doesn't sound as dynamic. I would not purchase it with hd6x0 because I just don't think they complement eachother with their limpish dynamics. I enjoyed it a lot more with hd800 and stuff which was more dynamic because they weren't hampered by that flaw.

I would say the adi 2 did decay a tad faster than it should, even on the normal sharp filter and it can bother someone who's sensitive to that on a headphone which decays a bit too fast as well, like the hd800.

 

TI / Burr Brown DACs didn't used to have that. Only the current production, "Advanced Segment" chips that are hybrids of R2R and DS do. The Dangerous Sources uses the PCM1789, which seems to be just a standard multibit delta sigma chip that TI describes as "Current Segment". It isn't nearly as colored as anything with the Advanced Segment stuff that is consistently mediocre.

I mean the AD1955 stuff is just good. Lavry DA11 (over AES) the most normal, Dangerous Convert 2 (haven't heard but still gotta be the most dynamic with the standard dangerous analog design), and Bricasti M1 which is "more special". These guys just know how to make good DACs. They're all different and much better done than the Emotiva DC-1 and the Apogee MiniDAC and 16X. The Bricasti is massively overpriced with a ton of gimmicks like gold plating, random color filters, three separate LPS, and a discrete output stage.

Even the RME is much more neutral with more detail than anything from Schiit, TASCAM/TEAC, or Grace. It's just compressed as hell and RME doesn't try to fatten up the AK4490 like the other guys, which makes those products sound even more off in comparison. Still why buy it when you can get the Dangerous Source, Lavry DA11, or even Prism Lyra (if you want more features and don't care about color) ?

That being said if stuff with stock Velvet Sound and Advanced Segment chips that are otherwise neutral cost well under 500 bucks, they would still be good buys. All the cheap stuff using them like Schiit, Grace, and the Audiofuse (at least you get features) just tries to sound euphonic and not accurate though. Lipstick on a pig ain't worth it. I'd rather mess with some interface and save for real deal stuff.

 

I always prefer euphonic than accurate. Some of the Ayre stuff that I dabble in at times cost $$$$ is on the euphonic side. Who cares about accurate when it sounds like utter shit. Is it the point of this hobby is to enjoy our tunes in higher than usual quality?

Or maybe I'm getting too old.

 

Well being non euphonic alone doesnt tell if it's accurate
While accurate sound is definitely preferred, no one knows how accurate.
Instead of accurate , references should be set and each individual has their own references.
For a person making music, his recording gear is his reference
End user wasnt there to evaluate that reference so will never know how "accurately" music was produced.

What left for us is options.
Warm, euphonic, rich, neutral, flat, dynamic, part warm part bright, bright, neutral bright, warm neutral etc. etc.... There are just so many ways we decribe sound and the reason is we just dont know how accurate to the recording gears reference are we listening to.

That leaves just one option to eval gear: Look past the default factory tuning of the gear and if the gear in long term is capable of tone swing (over and above the factory tuning) across your music library thereby telling recording quality apart (60s, 70s, 80s....90s....each decade had distinct tone/timbre).
Next level is if the gear can also tell differences between various releases of the same album
Last level is how effortlessly is the gear able to tell above differences.
Still not content, open your own studio

 

I don't want to make a new thread for this thing, but I at least want to mention it because I haven't seen anyone talk about it yet.

I just picked up a Khadas Tone Board DAC. https://www.khadas.com/tone Scroll down the page and pay no mind to that idiot DJ in the stock video. This is a very neat little device. There was some talk over on the Audio Sinad Testography Forums on this thing. Most hilariously was the relationship between a company that is putting this into their own device and marking it up a lot, having not mentioned their affiliation until after controversy developed. They are serving a market that is a little bit isolated, so I think their approach is somewhat justified, though. After I got over how annoying that DJ picture is on the Khadas website, I continued to look into this device and it was just delivered to me yesterday. I ordered from Khadas, but this is also available from Amazon in the USA, and there are several other resellers who appear to be rebranding this device or at least putting their own name onto it. I assume Khadas is the OEM but this is suspect since there appear to be so many outlets to purchase the Tone Board. At any rate, it doesn't matter because it's a great piece.

It has USB-C input, as well as a SPDIF input which as far as I am aware, can also be used as a SPDIF out. It also included an RCA to 1/8" adapter so that you can use it to power headphones directly. I was not aware of this feature but it's a really fun party trick. This little PCB does a lot of things. I intend to use it on top of a Raspberry Pi, for a DAC/Preamp into a stereo power amp. However, it can be used as a stand alone DAC/Pre due to its USB-C or SPDIF inputs. Lots of fun can be had with this thing. Khadas makes an SBC called the VIM2 which I nearly impulse bought. The Tone Board is meant to stack right on top of it like a HAT. However, I read some troubling information on its excessive heat production and requirement for the included active heat sink to be used. It also does not have full support of the latest Volumio or Rune Audio releases either. So I will avoid the VIM2 for now and put the Tone Board on top of an RPi. **EDIT* I realize now this has a very different GPIO pinout than a Raspberry Pi, so even stacking it with a GPIO height extender is not possible! I will look deeper into the option of a VIM2 now, or just bite the bullet and use USB-C from the RPI to the Tone Board.

I am waiting on a GPIO riser and a new RPI 3b+ to use this as a make shift DAC HAT. It will not fit on top of an RPi otherwise as it is not HAT compliant. Until then, it's plugged into my RPI 3b with USB A to USB-C. Rune Audio recognized it right away and playback worked immediately. It's running line-out into a Sony TA-A1ES integrated amp to ELAC Unifi UB-5 book shelf speakers for my bedroom. Early subjective impressions are very positive. I would characterize this DAC as very resolving with impressively low jitter. That is to say that detail, separation, and sound stage are far better than they should be for such a simple device and front-end setup. The Tone Board is meant to be driving a NuForce STA200 in my setup, and I will swap that back in sometime in the next couple weeks. I expect that to color the sound quite a bit, but with the detailed, low jitter signal from the Tone Board, I think I will still enjoy the final result. This is not meant to be a reference system so I'm not trying to create something that will win awards. I am just trying to create a simple setup for passive background listening. At $99 the Tone Board so far is indicating that it's an excellent choice.

 

Has anyone put ears on the Denafrips Terminator or Venus and can compare to the Schiit DACs?

 

So it's been over a month since you had the Convert & Solaris. Which have you been reaching when listening to music in your free time? Or still using the Yggdrasil/Gungnir Multibit in your main rig?

 

You should know already, that his main rig involves vinyl.

 

@purr1n

See you mentioning the topped out internal I/V conversion in the Yggdrasil AD BRUZ chips here and there... but maybe it's never in the current domain, or super simple? Also no talk of internal I/V in the datasheet.

Looking at the sample circuits, lots of external voltage references needed for the R2R network, then external AD op-amps to up the Vout (Schitt must be doing this discreet).

When I saw you talk about this--> this came to mind:



A paint-by-numbers BB PCM5122 chip... with built in I/V OPAMPS, ready to route straight to the RCA's. Not much you can do to enhance the output stage.

It can't possibly be that bad? (or is it, or somewhere in-between) hmmm...

 

TI recently integrated everything (iv stage and analog opamp) onto one piece of silicon to better compete with Cirrus for low end stuff. It’s still the euphonic TI “advanced segment” chips and you’re not going to see it in better, less colored gear due to the actual sound of it being uniforming as Taisseroots described.

Advanced segment doesn’t compete soundwise with the better for audio, separate IC dac chips like AD1955 and CS4398 in well everything I’ve heard.

An internal I-V stage isn’t necessarily worse; it makes the chip easier to implement but allows less room for tweaking the final sound to be a better sounding or at least more distinctive in the marketplace product. This on chip analog stage is just even more so.

Breadboard some spec sheet TI and CS stuff or buy some diy kits, compare to real products and you can hear how limiting this must be if the ic just comes like that for cheap stuff

 

Has anyone here heard the SPL Director? I'm not really interested personally, but just curious how their standalone dac offering holds up. I remember reading Torq's comments on the built in dac in Phonitor X that it was ok but nothing to write home about. There's an updated dac module in the Phonitor XE, but the only info that seems available is that it handles higher sampling rates (and who in the world needs 768kHz?).

 

https://www.headphones.com/products/spl-director-dac-preamplifier
$3,299.00 for the Director? Yikes

For that kind of money, I would search for a used PS Audio Directstream.

 

Can't really knock something without at least trying it.

 

What the hell? So wait you're bashing a slightly overpriced product that you haven't heard due to the price and recommending something else as it's grotesquely overpriced. Not only that, you're recommending a box whose sound changes dramatically constantly through firmware updates as the manufacturer couldn't get it right the first time, the same as with PS Audio's previous box, the PerfectWave DAC.

Prism Sound's boxes are priced on features and have f'ing everything. If you need all those features in that level of quality and do not care about the "Prism sound" then everything else is overpriced. But we're not accountants running project studios buying for just features; we're buying this stuff for the perceived sound quality and as we like that sound. PS Audio has tons of sound changes as they are incompetent designers, making their own products poor buys for anyone buying it based on the sound and not a brand's cache. Their products do not come from a manufacturer with a consistent sound or a history of sheer excellence to warrant a higher price for what you are buying.

PS Audio isn't Bricasti or Lavry Gold where it's flashy but excellent.
PS Audio is for people who wear Polo everything as they think it makes them look like they have money.

 

True, but there is a thread with 1,400 replies with owners talking about the Snowmass firmware upgrade & how they think it sounds.
https://forum.psaudio.com/t/snowmass-directstream-sr-upgrade-available-in-the-downloads-section/7705

Let alone other forums & reviewers who compared it either favorably or better over the Chord Dave, Denafrips Terminator & the Schiit Yggdrasil.

Vs. zero owners or reviews of the Director as far as my search led me to.

 

That's the weird thing ain't it? I can't find anything online either... at least not in English. I did a bit more digging and managed to unearth these:
https://spl.audio/lowbeats-de-im-test-die-neue-professional-fidelity-serie-von-spl/?lang=en
https://www.lowbeats.de/test-spl-director-profi-dac-preamp-fuer-zuhause/
https://www.hifistatement.net/tests/item/1779-spl-director

google translate...
https://translate.google.com/transl...t-spl-director-profi-dac-preamp-fuer-zuhause/
https://translate.google.com/transl...ifistatement.net/tests/item/1779-spl-director

 

Director has an AD1955 at least.

 

That delta-sigma chip appears to be about $9 at volume on Mouser, and used in at least one Emotiva budget DAC from 2011. Of course implementation matters, and not saying it’s not a great sounding chip for the money, but in a product that expensive, I don’t know that really says much by itself.