SBAF free advertising for Massdrop?

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by brencho, Jun 12, 2018.

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  1. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    They're huge now. They were a start-up, essentially, so they did have investment. But when that started running dry subscriptions were what kept them alive and allowed them to not become beholden to sponsors. There's more to their story, though. Also their community and forum are a large part of what they are, it's that dedicated community that drives those subscriptions.

    I'm not saying that it is a 1:1 comparison at all. It's just a good example of subscriptions done well.

    SBAF take donations already. Which is dependant upon people remembering to donate, or knowing how to set up regular donations. Convenience is crucial in people doing anything. If SBAF made it super simple and easy for people to subscribe, even for only $1 a month, many more people would do so, happily, even without any additional benefits.

    The most important thing is that SBAF be sustainable. I appreciate you have your reservations, but it'll all be for shit if you guys get to the point where you don't give a f**k anymore and pack it in.
     
  2. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Just wanted to say that I learned about Massdrop through Changstar (an enthusiast forum). I even met @Will at a HF meet (another enthusiast forum). After that I got a good deal from then on my HD600 (which I use) and my O2 (which I seldom use).

    I don't remember the last time I visited Massdrop forums. This comment is not to put down @Will, but it's a fact. On the other hand even may parents think I'm weird.

    (Also f**k you guys I want a Tesla. But it's too expensive.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Autopilot on or off?
     
  4. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    I need to relax. Think I’ll watch the nightly news. @brencho that was sarcasm in case you detector was still off. :D
     
  5. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    On definitely. 4 mile drive to work.
     
  6. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    4?! Ffs. Mine is 21.
     
  7. L'Orfeo

    L'Orfeo MoatsArt the Second

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    There are some good people here who have already demonstrated willingness to put cash into the game. I'm all for making donations easier and "set-and-forget" as others have suggested. Not that it's particularly hard atm. Maybe a "reminder" of the opportunity in a more prominent position.

    Let's assume that a pay-for-written-content model is lame. Is there something else that SBAF could give people in exchange for donations? And, no. Exposure of body parts is not acceptable. *You boy, down the back! Yes you! Stop your girlish giggling.*
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm warming up to @BenjaminBore's idea. Make it easy for donations. Offer hidden esoteric content for this, more as a gesture than anything else. I hope you guys wouldn't have a problem with me dipping into these funds. Currently keeping the donations separate for our loaner and meets warchest. This is something I would not want to make a unilateral decision on, and would seek members' approval.

    Regardless, I still feel that boundaries around vendors' activities need to be in place. If they want to use SBAF to issue product press releases, they can pay for that. Soliciting members ears for product development can be free.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  9. L'Orfeo

    L'Orfeo MoatsArt the Second

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    Difference between this and Patreon?

    It's in everyone's best interests that you get some money for this or at the very least mitigate your expenses. SBAF is an important voice in the hobby and we don't want you to stop.

    Edit: I believe that a trustworthy Friend (mod/admin) should take over administration, acceptance and disbursement of donations, continuing to regularly and publicly make this info available. This would be for the sake of appearances as I have no reason to believe that you'd act in a less than noble manner.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  10. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    I'd feel better about things if donations were for you and the loaner program and sponors paid for our meets.
     
  11. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Yep, I agree. I did say I absolutely think we need to have regular loaners from MD, and this is one reason why. I think the ZDT Jr thing really highlighted how much of an effect personal tastes really have. I try to mention product pitfalls like that but ultimately still have to write from my perspective and tastes. My hope is people know my tastes well enough to work with that.

    If we get good members in on the loaners, and from the start, that further expands the pool of data points to triangulate how something sounds. If we all know each other's tastes, that goes a long way. Hoping we can incorporate more voices for these review releases too, but, again, I know why MD does what they do and am not personally opposed.

    Also meant to reiterate and clarify I'm still happy as ever to go along with whatever direction we take.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Massdrop loaners are acceptable, but they need to go out to at least several people, not any of the well knowns, before the drop ends. Otherwise we would be in the same situation as now.

    A special Massdrop forum will need to be created for private pre-embargo access for people selected for the loaner. We would need to institute a system to select people for the loaner outside the private area, without totally giving away what the product is. Someone would need to be responsible for moving the loaner impressions thread to the public area when the drop goes live.

    Great ideas until we suddenly realize how we became unpaid Massdrop employees.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  13. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I believe letting other members know about these items is totally feasible. We've already had Schiit bring certain *redacted* products to meets that we were all able to try out but needed to keep quite otherwise. A secret loaner forum just seems like an extension of that concept.
     
  14. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    Once we have a solidified vision on what this would look like, I can manage the logistics of such a system.

    What I do not want to see is stuff like SBAF issued NDAs, nor do I want to see us put additional financial resources into such a system (other than the human capital we are already utilizing). If there are any special requirements for a program like this, I want to see MD fulfill them.
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I find this an acceptable solution that meets the spirit of the policies that I set forth. Again, gear needs to go out to a different group of people other than the usual suspects. Gear needs to get in hands of three or four people before drop ends. These requirements would better assure readers that Massdrop isn't gaming the system here on SBAF.

    Massdrop would have to be OK with this, knowing of the risk of leaks. Bringing secret gear to meets is one thing. Posting stuff on a forum, even a secret part, where people can take screenshots, is another. So is loaning out press embargoed gear to several people on a loaner program. Ain't signing no NDA nor guarantee of anything. SBAF shall assume no liability.

    And I'm not doing anything. So someone else please write a draft of formal set of requirements with indemnity clause for SBAF. I will review, provide feedback, and approve.

    And then Massdrop must be OK with the terms, which I highly doubt they will.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  16. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    As a total newb “Friend,” I can honestly say I’m not super concerned about SBAF appearing (key word) to be shills for stuff as long as the end result is informative content.

    Would a secret loaner program maybe be good? Sure. Would more (intelligently) critical reviews add some balance (perceived or real)? Maybe. (Is there any reason to chew through crap gear just to generate a “balance” of negative reviews? No. Might some selected reviews and measurements of more mainstream equipment have illustrative value and draw in some new audiophiles? Possibly.)

    Ultimately, the reviewer-reader relationship is built on trust. On thing that the Amir/ASR crap illustrates is that, regardless of the truth, some people will assert that any disagreement or difference in taste is driven by malice or corruption. But no one can expect perfect agreement when it comes to gear. The K7XX got good reviews from people I trust, but I hated them! That’s just life, not Massdrop handing paper bags with wads full of cash to SBAF reviews.

    After following many of them for years across multiple sites, it’s very clear to me that none of the major reviewers here is A) a moron who will fawn over each shiny new thing or B) willing to screw their reputation for a few bucks from a company. The same can’t be said for other websites.

    I’m at SBAF because I trust many of the reviewers here, and I appreciate the work they do. That’s real value, and I’m grateful for it. So I’m all in favor of anything that makes Marvey’s job easier and continues to facilitate and encouraged the creation of informed reviews by the many high-volume, high-quality reviewers on this site. (I can’t lose too many more reviewers with similar tastes now that Tyll has retired!)
     
  17. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    @Josh83

    Massdrop is gaming the reviewer-reader relationship here by getting 3-5 positive reviews at a product launch and not a single negative by putting everything into just the right hands. It generates way more hype than if things were to play out the natural, normal way of loaners and meets over the course of a year or two.
     
  18. monacelli

    monacelli Friend

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    I largely agree with this assessment, although you could say the same of the Eitr rollout. I've learned not to put too much stock into any of these insider reviews of unreleased products, irrespective of who wrote them (no disrespect!). But these press-release-reviews certainly have their place. My opinion is that this should be a perk reserved for SBAF sponsors. Other folks can wait until their gear actually hits the market (i.e., actually ships).
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The difference with the Eitr "rollout" was that it was the members themselves who bought it for themselves and talked it about it themselves. I intentionally stayed out of that one because I knew members were going to get super excited and the hype (probably deserved) didn't need my help. I only got an Eitr recently, like three weeks ago.

    Another difference is that I felt I had a choice to stay out of that one and I did. I got ZERO pressure, ZERO begging, ZERO cajoling from @schiit to receive it early and write something nice about it smack on the press embargo lift date and time. As far as I know, @schiit didn't send an Eitr off to each member of the "DAC triumvirate", that is @Hands, @Torq, and I, with each of us not knowing about the others' involvement until an a hour before the coordinated review, press release, product launch.

    @schiit doesn't game us. And he doesn't act like a narcissistic ass unintentionally intentionally belittling us. How you treat this community matters.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  20. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    Which reflects remarkably well on Jason, considering he was in marketing before audio.

    Sponsor or not, the way @schiit engages with the community here is perfect.
     
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