Schiit Bifrost 2

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by RobS, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Pretty sure that's foobar2k's event mode being ass. It hasn't been updated in years. I always use PUSH now and haven't had problems since.
     
  2. TazerMonkey

    TazerMonkey Acquaintance

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    I had this problem. You'll have to adjust the event buffer settings under WASAPI on the Advanced tab in Preferences. Mine is currently set at 10, but your hardware may require a different setting. (You would think increasing the buffer would help, but I actually had to decrease it from the default to get it to play nice.)

    If you can't get it settled on your own, contact Schiit's customer service and they can help walk you through it.
     
  3. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Various playback sources > Bifrost 2 > DNA Starlett > HD650KISS / HD800SDR

    Even with the thick stuffiness of a cold start, the Bifrost 2 (BF2) seemed immediately more resolving than OG Gungnir Multibit, which I previously owned a couple different times for a while and used single ended. Here was more clarity, smoothness, blackground, plankton and coherency across the entire frequency spectrum. BF2 also possesses a more analog like character. This was clearly a more resolving DAC and I'm continually astounded by Schiit keeping up its value market dominance by offering insane performance for (relatively) dirt cheap prices.

    And the sound only improved from there. BF2 has a much shorter warmup than Gungnir Multibit. It seemed to reach 90% after about 5 hours of being on, with additional refinement/clarity/extension happening over the next day or two, but the entire warmup experience has been substantially shortened from Gungnir Multibit (and of course Yggdrasil) to the point where one doesn't have to be nearly as paranoid about power outages as they might with those other two DACs.

    BF2 has almost the same easy going euphony as OG Gungnir Multibit, but without that DAC's bloominess and tendency to slightly smear over detail. Everything is tighter and more refined. Tonally it sounds rich, full, with dense timbre and excellent extension on both ends, though I somehow feel like it doesn't slam quite as hard as Gungnir Multibit... say 5% less heft overall. But all the plankton one could ever need, with spatial cues and room acoustics typical of the TOTL Schiit DACs, and notably a bit better than OG Gungnir Multibit from what I remember. Anyone new to the Schiit multibit DACs has to realize how good a deal they're getting for such a resolving link in the chain... it really does feel like we've entered a Golden Age of personal audio.

    The phase button was quite the revelation. I'd heard that a lot of recordings have phase issues but never took it seriously, mostly because I had no idea how to fix it. But on most of the naturally mic'd music I've listened to so far on the BF2, with the phase invert being on, the effect has been eye opening, immediately creating a more fleshed out, natural sense of space and dynamics to individual instruments and voices. More air and extension is revealed, as if someone hit the "decompress" button. The intensity of the effect varied from recording to recording... some slightly benefitted, others seemed to have new life breathed into them. These recordings by no means sounded bad before, but they clearly benefit from the phase inversion, and I'm glad Schiit included the feature. This has been wonderfully revealing for classical, acoustic and vocal music. Making these recordings quite a bit more enjoyable.

    I was highly anticipating Unison but found it to be a mixed bag. USB has been unadulterated garbage, all the more obvious the further up the resolving ladder I went with gear, and the idea that it might finally be on par with SPDIF was exciting. Is it? Yes and no. I did find it to be a huge step up from the awful USB that I'm used to hearing, and it was about on par with my Onkyo C7030 CD player (possibly being slightly more revealing), and that's a major accomplishment that Schiit should be proud of. For USB to sound anywhere near a decent/good spinner is revelatory. On the other hand... unison paled in comparison to SPDIF from the laserdisc player I recently picked up for cheap on ebay (Pioneer CLD-D703) which I started using as a CD transport soon after acquiring the BF2. The Pioneer was quite a bit more resolving, even smoking the Onkyo. I was actually quite stunned at how impactful an overengineered CD transport had on the sound of the BF2. Basically the entire character of the sound changed with everything gaining a weight, sophistication, tonal density and nuance that I had never really experienced before, things the BF2 excels at. The most obvious change being a complete lack of strain and effortless power, moving you one step closer to "I'm there". The lack of strain is one of those "aha!" moments you only realize when moving up the transport ladder... and realize how much jitter you were putting up with. There was an ease and effortlessness to the music that gave the impression of a grander experience. Bigger, wider, deeper, more separated stage that had more layering and a significant improvement in microdynamics... all the nuances and cues that were lost on lesser transports.... with the typical "I've never heard that before" moments coming regularly. And the stage was pushed in front of me, creating a more speaker like presentation (moreso with the HD800 of course). All this added up to a more engaging and musical experience. The Starlett, which is extremely transparent to source, massively benefitted from all this new musical information. The only downside being that the gap between well mastered and poorly mastered albums grew much larger, making poorer recordings harder to enjoy... at this stage it seems to come down to the mastering than any particular weakness in the chain.

    Granted there may be further benefits to Unison by daisy chaining gizmos or whatever people are doing these days, but Unison was probably designed for plug and play, so I feel comfortable about my opinion of it. People strictly on a diet of computer audio should be very pleased, as this is probably the best any Schiit DAC has sounded from USB. But those using even a decent spinner shouldn't feel tempted to change over. It'll be interesting to see how the new Schiit transport shakes things up, and if Unison SQ improves with any updates. Speaking of which....

    The modular nature of the DAC (both Unison and the analog boards are easily removable, as well the ability to update firmware via microSD card) really created another layer of comfort with owning the BF2. The idea of not having to send it back to the mothership for upgrades is definitely welcome, and another reason it's hard to say no to the thing.

    I could easily see myself keeping this DAC indefinitely, as it pairs wonderfully with Starlett, and is without a doubt endgame material. There may be a Yggdrasil 2 in my future to squeeze every last bit of performance out of the amp... but based on what I've heard, it is likely diminishing returns at this point so I'm in no hurry.
     
  4. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    @ColtMrFire good shit dude. Seriously throw that Onkyo CD player in the garbage. Your Pioneer LD should destroy it, as you now know.

    That's too bad the Bifrost 2 doesn't slam as hard as OG Gungnir MB. I find the bass impact much too soft and loose. Granted coming from the Convert-2 which has the best bass I've ever heard from a DAC yet.

    Does the Bifrost 2 make all recordings sound uniform like the OG Gungnir MB? As much as I am enthralled by the timbre of the Multibit stuff, there is this particular signature it imparts on all of the albums I'm listening to where it can be somewhat difficult to discern differences in recordings. It doesn't have the raw transparency of the Convert-2, instead there is this thin film of vaseline over the entire audio band, what you described as bloominess and smearing over detail. Yet I find the detail retrieval, especially how it resolves the low information bests the Convert-2. (EDIT: The Convert-2 definitely has its own sound, but I find it clearer and not as hazy as the OG Gungnir MB)

    OG Gungnir is pretty soft, it's an easy Mercedes ride with air-suspension. Not even close to how dynamic the Convert-2 is. The fact you say the Bifrost 2 has that same easy-going sound is a no go for me. I need a little more transient attack.

    So thanks Colt for your review.
     
  5. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    This is why the pioneer LD based Theta Data III is my primary transport via AES to Yggdrasil A2 and I have one of the nicer pioneer units from the time as a backup. Really solid transports in my experience.
     
  6. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    BF2 has plenty of slam, so its not something to worry about... these are splitting hairs at this level.

    When I had the OG Gungnir Multibit I could pretty easily tell differences in a recording's "wallpaper" so to speak... that DAC has its own distinct character, but I found it pretty accurate nonetheless.

    But BF2 is definitely more revealing, so you'll probably be able to discern differences in recordings.

    I did some reading up on this before buying it, and remember marv saying something about LD players making really good transports. I was initially going to buy a Denon LA-2500 from craigslist, but the guy seemed shady (literally wouldn't let me test it before buying it). Luckily a guy about an hour away was selling the Pioneer on ebay and he dropped it off. Was pretty blown away at the improvements.
     
  7. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    Have you also noticed negative effects from inverting phase on some recordings? It is equally possible for non-inverted phase to sound better. It can go either way with each recording, and depends on whether the phase got inverted during the recording or mastering process. Any component of a playback system may be inverting phase as well.

    There is a good discussion about phase inversion and its effect here:
    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-3671#post-15386152 (from post #55061 for about 10 posts).
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I had a discussion with Mike Moffat on the effects of soundstage with polarity invert. He put it very simply: one sounds like ass.

    Lots of factors, including recording, mixing consoles, playback amps, etc. Some gear will invert phase. I mentioned to @schiit that a remote control for polarity for their future TOTL DACs would be warranted, since it does make such a difference, at least with their MegaComboBurrito or True Multibit™ stuff.
     
  9. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    I would rather see the polarity switch on their preamps so it could be switched for analog sources too. A lot of phono preamps switch polarity and even some phono cartridges.
     
  10. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Is the Starlett capable of hard hitting slam?

    I find the OG Gungnir Multibit's bass wimpy. I have some shitty loudspeakers that don't go down far, but it was a huuuuge difference swapping out the Convert-2 with the OG Gungnir Multibit. I lost the tightness, impact, articulation, heft etc. It sounds off. I have not been impressed with bass on any of the multibit stuff I've heard so far. Granted bass has become lesser of a priority for me but it's noticeable. Would like to get my ears on a Yggdrasil. I really like a lot of what the Gungnir Multibit does, but it still leaves me wanting just a bit more.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  11. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Yes.
     
  12. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    I'm sorry to butt in, I think this is being a bit misleading. The Starlett uses the same sort of edcore transformers as the Stratus, they do many things well but low end response is not quite there. Plus you're using HD600 and HD800, not headphones known for slam.
    So saying hard hitting slam kinda bugs me, HE6, Abyss,Susvara,HEDD, some ZMFs do hard hitting slam when the amp is up for it. No senn will ever do it and if we say they do what does it mean for the true bass headphones?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  13. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    The only amp/DAC combo I've heard that can do hard hitting slam with Senns is Mjolnir2/Convert-2. Everything else I've hooked up the Senns to is featherweight shit compared to an HE-6. Donald's amps ain't really known for delivering slam. But you don't buy a DNA to do that.

    HD800 ain't the last word on slam to be sure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  14. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    I think we need to clarify definitions here. From what I understand slam is closely related to macrodynamics, which isn't limited to bass. This is what I'm referring to. So we're probably talking about different things....

    So the thread doesn't get further derailed, @RobS you should probably take any more questions about Starlett to the appropriate thread(s).
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  15. will_f

    will_f Friend

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    After reading about your SPDIF improvements, I decided to try it myself. My implementation may be half-assed. Someone please let me know if I’m committing an unspeakable act with the following: iPhone playing lossless from Tidal, going via WiFi to an old apple airport express with an optical out, to the BF2.

    Anyway, optical is noticeably quieter compared to USB in terms of loudness, but when I subjectively match the volume, the sound quality differences are imperceptible to me. On the plus side, no cables from the phone and I can use my iPhone or Apple Watch as a volume remote.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  16. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    In comparison to what?

    Compared to DSHA-3F, the Starlett's slam is decent, but gets blown out of the water (the 3F is just way better in this regard). I'd go as far as to say that if you want the kind of bass slam to rock out to, the DNA sound is not for you. The Starlett is more gentle, calm and refined. Note the lack of verbiage such as "athletic, explosive, etc." That isn't to say that the Starlett cannot deliver weight to bass notes when called upon, but class-leading it is not.

    As far as how I found the Bifrost 2's slam, I actually found it slams more than my X-Sabre Pro. The Matrix has cleaner, faster, more energetic transients sure, but in bass slam it loses out.
     
  17. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    I'm not sure a comparison is needed. If your amplifier and transducers can't do slam then you can't properly evaluate how the Bifrost 2 does slam.

    However I feel DAC impressions should be placed in the context of other components in the chain. For example I had my Gungnir hooked up to a set of speakers which sounded flat, boring, grey, and very dull. Switching to different speakers, with the same amps, it was a lot more punchy in the midrange, greater contrast in tone colors, and so forth. The speakers that sounded dull were dogshit and it wasn't the DAC.

    Or take a Valhalla 2/Mjolnir 2 with HD600. The Mjolnir 2 has much faster speed and control, where the Valhalla 2 is slower and can be a bit unfocused.

    Sure there can be a consistency with other impressions of the same DAC, but when you know the transducers and amplifier can't do certain things, and someone says they can it raises a red flag.

    Yep that is said by many owners of Donald's amps. That's why I was curious how the Starlett was able to do slam. Like I said, you don't buy one of his amps for bass slam. Heck stock HD650 and HD800 are garbage when it comes to bass anyway. But both of those headphones do so many better things so who cares how they do bass?
     
  18. haywood

    haywood Friend

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    Slam is a subjective term, without any comparison how would anyone know whether any particular piece is of gear was lacking or not? It’s like arguing that Slayer kicks more ass than Megadeath without ever hearing Megadeath.
     
  19. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Except I didn't mention "bass" anywhere in my review (because I have Sennheisers). I talked of slam/(macrodynamics), which is a lack of compression.

    I mean, the conversation can't go anywhere if you can't properly define terms.

    It seems like you value bass. The bass on BF2 seems tighter and better controlled than OG Gungnir Multibit from what I'm using, but if you're using speakers, I can't help you there. You may wanna check other reviews.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  20. Hammy

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    If you find that inverting the absolute phase on the DAC sounds best with most recordings then something in the system is likely also inverting absolute phase (the amp, headphones, headphone cable). Professional mastering engineers know how to listen for which way the absolute phase should go. I find most recordings to be correct. Only a small percentage of my recordings seem to benefit with flipping the absolute phase.

    It's also somewhat a judgement call. Absolute phase is most easily heard in the bass. But also can be heard in the midrange to a lesser extent. Flipping the absolute phase can affect the midrange and affect how an instrument is presented in the mix. If that happens to be a solo or important instrument the mastering engineer may decide to put that instrument in correct absolute phase even if that means the bass is now inverted.

    Hearing absolute phase in the midrange on headphones requires heroic gear. At least for me. LCD-2 makes it audible in the bass but doesn't quite have the midrange resolution to make it noticeably audible to me in the midrange. But something like a Carbon and SR009 can. I got to hear a DAVE with a Carbon CC and SR009S setup. DAVE has a phase button. I played with that while listening and oh wow! I was hearing the effects of flipping the absolute phase in the midrange. Imaging and depth of instruments would change. Wow. That was the most audible I've ever heard absolute phase changes with headphones.
     

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