Schiit Bifrost 2

Yeah, really seems like Schiit is at the mercy of parts availability here. One of the big rationales of the switch is the terrible availability of the Analog Devices chips. Bifrost used two AD5871 per channel, and had to switch to the TI devices to keep it rolling. Gungnir uses four AD5871.

Uninformed guess, I'd say the Gungnir is a lower volume part, with most people going for the cheaper Bifrost or more expensive Yggdrasil. A small stockpile of chips might keep the Gungnir going as-is for a quite a bit. But ultimately, I'm sure we'll have to see a Ti-chip-based Gungnir model.

Yet.... With Bifrost now having four 8812 per channel, and LIM having four 8812 per channel, wheres the point of differentiation for Gungnir if it goes the same way? Power supply? Analog output stage? Remote control? Different DAC chip entirely? It's a hard sell.

 

PC (Tidal) -> AQ Carbon USB -> BF2 (SE) -> Chord Clearway RCA -> SW51+ (RFT184 tubes) -> Stock Cable -> HD800S

BF2 vs Modius (SE) and BF2 -> SW51+ vs BF2 -> Jot2

Some time ago I wrote impressions of SW51+ against Valhalla 2 running off OG Modius and listening to Senns:
Shortest Way 51 (SW51+) Amp Impressions (Only)

To cut a long story short I wasn't happy with SW51 bass and Valhalla 2 haze. I felt Val 2 to be better pairing with Modius but I kept the SW51 because I thought there's more potential with it and I needed to find better synergy.

Well it seems it was as simple as upgrading to BF2 as suggested.

Bifrost 2 works a lot better with SW51+ than Modius. I consider the bass now fixed in my setup. It's not perfect - could be a touch less of it and maybe less round, but it doesn't annoy me anymore - in fact I think it sounds great! It almost sounds like it's in the room - my brain is sometimes tricked into feeling the bass in my feet touching the ground - It's ridiculous, I know, but I once stopped the music a few times just to see If it's not my neighbors making a ruckus - and no, once the music started again the perception of the bass was like it was in the room.


Some other notes:
BF2 stage a lot more 3d, width maybe same width but more depth and height, images noticably bigger without being in my face
BF2 center image better, on Modius some songs are noticably off center which can be annoying
BF2 A lot more resolving
BF2 More contrast to the sound, a lot more engaging
BF2 A lot more dynamic sound
BF2 more of a rythmic sound
BF2 sounds more realistic
Modius has a lot more midbass emphasis - main thing I hate about it
Modius sounds a bit soulless in comparison

With Modius I'm a passive observer of the sound but with Bifrost I'm jamming. With BF 2 it's a bit hard to get any work done at home now, my attention wants to be with the music : )


Side note on Jotunheim 2: I had it for a few months. I agree with most perceptions in the Jot 2 thread. I don't think it worked great with BF2. It was too bassy and contrasty. It seemed like this setup was working too hard to show off, like it was forcing drivers to work too much. I had a similar perception with Valhalla 2 - like sound is pushed but with Jot 2 it sounded somewhat strained. Initially when starting listening it can sound engaging but after a bit of time it sounds fake. I also hated how it shrunk the soundstage of my HD800S, especially via Nexus BAL to SE conversion - not what I bought this HP for. Images are large at the cost of stage size. That was bad for games and movies too - very in your head experience. It probably could be a great amp for people who don't care about stage size and have a leaner DAC than BF2.


With SW51+ there's none of these annoyances. It sounds fun without becoming fake after 30 minutes. The stage size is realistic and plenty for movies and games. I guess I could get more of a big boy tube amp for a bigger stage I always seem to be chasing but it's more of a curiosity now how much it can be stretched on HD800S and remain realistic without images becoming too small.

But it's not as important now. Why?

Well sometimes after having a few too many drinks I would be listening to some simple earbuds on my way home and thinking my gosh this sounds so clear, lovely and engaging. Now with Bifrost I get that without the drinking

Bifrost 2 + SW51 + HD800S is incredably satisfying. I had it for a few months now and am very positively taken every time I sit down to listen to it. Very happy with this setup. Thank you very much to this community for directing me to this gear. I could stop here, maybe I should : )

 

A TI based Gungnir would be great. The digital reclocking and discrete output stage is the main driver for me. You would have to go to the OG Yggdrasil before you see those features if you remove the Gungnir

 

FYI on Gungnir:

Gungnir just got a $100 drop in price.

"That's because it doesn't have VCXOs anymore, only VCOs. We can't get them. There are no ship dates. From anyone. For any option."

"you can take one with VCO-only clock regeneration now (with an "L" serial number to indicate the different firmware), or wait indefinitely. It's not just VCOs. No more AD5781BRUZ are in the pipeline either, so Gungnir is going on indefinite hold after this run is gone."

"limited run without VCXOs, then indefinite hold. There's no "Gungnir LIM" coming, I'm afraid."

source: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-6327#post-17019072

 

But even then, the LIM has a LME49724 OPAMP output stage. This was a 'loss' from OG, and would probably represent a 'loss' in Gungnir as well.

(I don't consider it a loss frankly, these new generation OPAMPs seem to have really exceeded the objective and subjective performance of discrete stages)

It's quite a quandary. Bifrost 2/64 seems like an incredible value, and anything new at Gungnir's pricepoint might cannibalise LIM sales.

Well, that answers all this other discussion, LOL! Part availability claims another scalp.

 

Ouch.
Kudos to Schiit for being transparent about it + providing a discount. SMSL and Topping caught swapping to cheaper parts without telling anyone or even reducing the price.

 

I actually don't remember a stated reason why LIM used LME49724's instead of discrete. Probably should re-read Jason's chapter on it/MIL. I seem to remember the implied reason being to keep costs down, but the TI8812's are are already cheaper than the AD chips in A1/A2/OG. Could also just be an engineering issue specific to the 8812's that eludes my comprehension.

 

oh daaaang

i wonder if the spot is unpopulated and if you can do an unauthorized mod whenever the part is available again

 

The Gungnir still does clock regeneration which the Bifrost does not do. It’s just that it doesn’t use a more accurate VCXO clock as it did before

 

TI parts are on allocation, too, though. I don't know specifically about the 8812s, but I'd be surprised if they were easily available while so many more-mainstream TI parts aren't.

 

Yeah, not sure. I guess that the 8812 and 11001 in the Bifrost and Yggdrasil aren't really mainstream though... at least in the sense that they aren't audio DACs. Maybe less competition for supply, depending on their typical usage?

 

Typical usage is for test equipment or to control motors, devices that are meant to last for a very very long time(like audio equipment) without upgrade. I think I remember reading that the biggest consumer of the Analog Devices multibit DAC chips was Schiit. I would not be surprised if Schiit ends up also being one of the top TI8812 consumers as well

 

Agreed with this. Some reason the SW51+ likes a DAC like the BF2, it didn't cut it for me with the Modi 3. I've since stepped down to a Modi Multibit at the BF2 magic is still there. Staging isn't as big, but that doesn't mean a decrease in enjoyment for me.

 

Well, that's a shame. The middle between Bifrost and Yggdrasil was already being squeezed; now it'll just be gone, with 3x price jumps from Modius to Bifrost to Yggdrasil. Hopefully this new 2/64 fills the space suitably, because it's about to turn into the endgame for most folks.

 

Well I don’t think A2 upgrades are too affected so I’ll see if I can find a good deal on a used Gungnir and upgrade

 

I think you're right in terms of making Bifrost a default headphone endgame there. Bifrost makes a very compelling/pretty desktop stack with any of Jot, Lyr or Valhalla. The only similar stack you can make with Gungnir (or Yggdrasil) right now is Folkvangr, and that's in highly limited supply. Almost pushes a lot of people down the price range.

I guess we need another bigass desktop amp to pull people up to the next level.....

 

A next Level Vali 2+ without the power death stroking sound of the Jot/Lyr on your IEMs/Headphones.

 

I don't know if we'll see another big ass Schiit head amp. If I recall Jason's comments, the big form factor limited sales on Mjolnir. I'd also have to imagine that the material cost is way higher, especially now, and especially for silver. Folkvangr is a unique scenario, but again, one that wasn't driven by business so much as engineering zeal.

 

Mjolnir and Gungnir used to be their statement products, developed before Yggdrasil/Ragnarok. The form factor is a bit of a legacy thing. I guess I can see how a low end Yggdrasil or high-end Bifrost could fill in that space.

But I don't really think they need to be concerned about a headphone amp that's the same size. Gungnir exists just fine on it's own and the Freya stacks on it just as well.

 

High quality pic to confirm: