Schiit Bifrost 2

I think it's the opposite actually (though I could be totally wrong, I'm digging into fuzzy memory from some whitepaper I read ages ago), where a single chip/board/whatever has a certain amount of inaccuracy, but stacking lets you average out and achieve higher accuracy/resolution/whatever buzzword is relevant. You just need to do the extra work to make sure the stacking/overlapping/mathemagic is done properly in order for the audiophile mojo to happen.

 

I would love for the guy from Schiit to come in and explain a bit to all of us how the transformers , output stages contribute to the sound.

Didn’t know the transformers were different. Good info

 

Eh, I dunno how much Jason would be interested in doing something like that. It's the sort of thing (opamp 'nervosa' etc.) that the Schiit guys have shrugged at before or remained kind of agnostic. Others here might be able to speak toward the sound of the opamps used, though -- one of them in 2/64 isn't in LIM or OG BF2 and has been used to mod other Schiit gear, etc.

The transformer is different, I think technically less "noisy" or better performing or what have you, but that doesn't mean better sounding, necessarily - just another variable for all the parts to interact with together for the final tuning of the component.

 

Agreed, I’m not sure how much of that they would want to get in to. It would be nice to know if a firmware update would be able to address some of the issues that some folks have with the sound.

 

Shoot if I made a DAC I would gladly allow people to modify it and make it more customized to their own liking.

Most people love that stuff.


But that’s just me

 

Well, if I made a DAC I wouldn't encourage mods if it meant the person expected me to service it within a warranty period, but I think as long as people understand that they are voiding their warranty, Schiit would shrug at someone modding their Schiit. So long as the person knows what they're doing and don't get hurt, of course.

I mean more that the main Schiit guys (Jason, Mike, Dave, etc.) seem less inclined to spend a lot of time, personally, rolling opamps and such, so I don't think they'd be much interested in speculating on how opamps are resulting in a particular sonic outcome, even if it's an official change. They also seem fine if others want to discuss that, though. They're mostly easy going kind of guys that want to get people enjoying their music/sound, however that comes about.

Besides, Jason wouldn't be the one to ask (he's the usual 'Schiit guy' around here), since Dave and Mike are on the digital side. I guess Mike sometimes pops up around here, though, in a blue moon...

 

I just plugged my BF 2/64 into my chain. Out of the box, connected to power for four hours first to warm up, and now playing for the first time via SE out. This is right after unplugging my Gungnir MB A2/Unison, so a back-to-back comparison of sorts.

Immediate impressions:

More treble clarity but not harsh at all. I am hearing more detail in the music. A lot more. More insight. Maybe slightly wider sound stage. For sure better blackground.

Does it perhaps lack the overall bass heft of the Gungnir MB A2? No. But the BF 2/64 feels more agile in a sense while not lacking in bass response at all.

I will post updates as the BF 2/64 warms up for the next days and I switch back to Gungnir. The BF 2/64 is sounding more "hifi" and is a great match to my NAIM Supernait 3/Dynaudio Contour system, which is very mids-focused/neutral (sometimes to a fault).

 

Based on the DACs I have heard including ones from Bryston, Musical Fidelity, Yggdrasil A2 & Bifrost 1 MB among others, the Bifrost 2/64 is not a bright DAC. I would say that the Yggdrasil A2 is perhaps a little brighter. I find the 2/64 to be pretty smooth and non-fatiguing actually. I do find the Yggdrasil A2 to be superior in every way especially in terms of resolution. However, I believe the 2/64 is excellent for the price and form factor. The Yggdrasil does not fit well on my desk in the home office while the 2/64 fits beautifully stacked with the Lyr+. Great combo with the Lyr+ in my opinion.

So just to balance things out a bit, I wanted to share my perspective. I find no issues at all with cohesiveness or brightness with the 2/64. When I bought the 2/64 I was not expecting it to sound as good as a Yggdrasil. Thankfully it sounds very satisfying in its own way.

 

The main analog stage opamp is LME49724 for both no? I definitely wasn't implying that they would sound exactly the same with just those shared parts, but was giving context as to why the discrepancy in impressions is so strange (most analog Schiit DAC to incoherent and forced). Another even stranger detail is that the Bifrost 2/64 measures better than LIM.

Oh if we're talking about stacking 18 bit chips and doing randomized selection between them for each sample, it will be better than one 18 bit chip. But 4 16 bit chips I don't think can match the resistor tolerance/precision of one 18 bit chip (there's math somewhere for this). The notion of whether more DSP magic with less precise chips will match more precise chips then leads to can of worms that is the ongoing Delta Sigma vs R2R debate...

 

Schiit website:

The latter wasn’t part of OG BF2 (and isn’t part of LIM).

I’m having trouble parsing why 2/64 measuring better is particularly relevant since we’re still in the realm of SQ impressions, I guess. It is interesting, though, sure. I’d chalk it up to the power supplies and/or some quirk of firmware implementation, but I’m out of my depth by leagues there.

edit: okay I might be seeing what you’re getting at there. It is definitely interesting to think of what “noise” in LIM’s measurements absent in 2/64’s might contribute to better subjective impressions. Some difference in pattern in the descending harmonic spuriae or something would be nice, but they don’t seem meaningfully different in that regard from a quick glance at Schiit’s APx555 reports. Idk, hard to draw conclusions.

 

I hopped in just to say that I don't usually comment on perceived sonics, other than to say "I like this, I like that, etc." Personally, I think 2/64 is fantastic, I use Bifrost on the desktop and with speakers. That's my go-to choice. In some other systems a different DAC will be better. But you just can't extrapolate a personal experience to all experiences. Believe me, I know--new toy (new design) syndrome is something I have to fight all the time.

Let us know how that works out for you.

 

2/64 is really good for me! This is not a bright DAC, it’s slightly warm, and produces a very nice, natural level of detail.

I’ve used Bifrost and Bifrost 2 over the years. It’s my DAC at the office and used through a Jotunheim 2 primarily with a Dan Clark Æon Noire and occasionally with HD6xx. I upgraded to 2/64 about a month ago and I think I am now comfortable enough with the switch to comment a bit about it.

The jump from 1 to 2 beefed up bass for me and in general added a nice warm flavor to it. I like my bass fast, present , and believable. I ended up trading by 1 for 2 because the owner has exactly the opposite preference - we’re both happy. 2/64 to my ears added a somewhat relaxed natural quality to the highs, and kept all the good stuff from the previous (vocals remain fantastic). It’s a bit airier - things sound a bit better placed to me. The bass got reined in a bit (not that BF2 was too warm). All this tinkering results in what sound to me as a win in terms of detail.

I tried NOS because it’s there. NOS is not for me, but thank you for the extra jalapeño.

With NOS I feel like the soul of the performance is just… less there than there. It’s like hearing a fantastic joke retold by a nervous up-and-coming comedian.

I tried upsampling in Roon and then NOS. No thanks either. Perhaps folks are getting great results with HQPlayer upsampling, but I’ll be sticking with the proto-chimichanga regimen for the foreseeable future. For the price, it’s really hard to beat its performance, feature set, and size…

2 vs 2/64? I think it comes down to how full/warm you like things. Remember, my buddy stayed with Bifrost 1

 

Oh god. This sounds both fun and maddening. I know I would go nuts if I knew how to design a circuit/component, at least. I guess this is why I've always ultimately steered myself away from DIY, I'm too neurotic.

 

ha yeah I over simplified that one you’re correct

As a musician of over 40 years imho it is a bright DAC however. Doesn’t lean on the rolled off type.

out of curiosity do you guys voice the output stages or make them completely linear?


Thanks for chiming in.

 

Folks is it safe to just cut power from/to BF2 or it has to be turned off/on with back panel switch?

 

My vote is it should be fine to cut power, sure.

 

Heck I’d cut the power from the space shuttle and not worry about it.

lol

 

I'm a little happy dude out here. Just upgraded my beloved Modius with brand new BF2/64 this week and bromancing it hard in all positions. Right out of the box the improvement was huge: a lot more details, instruments got space because I hear the studio backwall reverberations much clearer, soundstage is more detailed because every instrument is now positioned somewhere instead of stampeding all in one spot. I suppose the musicians also feel better when they are allowed to spread over the studio instead of sitting on each other shoulders.

I hear what people are saying about too bright. Whatever, it's dudes under 30 shenanigans. BF2 is made by dudes over 40 for dudes over 40, we just don't hear all this nonsense beyond 17k.

I also hear that some people complained about treble harshness. I hear it in about 1 recording from every 20, can't bother me with this ratio. Besides, I have only 2 days of burn in and I'm playing from regular USB. One day I will replace USB with Pi2AES and it shall be gone for good.

 

LOL 43yo mid-life crisis dude here with mild hearing loss in the left ear. Totally get what you're saying.

 

I'm using smart plugs so I can turn most of my equipment on/off by voice. A bit scary to do it with my precious BF2 but I guess you approved...