Schiit Bifrost 2

Were you listening through headphones or speakers?

 

Speakers. Scroll up to my previous post.

 

Last month, I ended up with some unexpected free time and decided to spend it by switching my 2/64 to NOS and listening to music. I haven't switched back yet. I wouldn't say it's better exactly, but I think it sounds good, at least worth trying for people who have one.

All of this is with an Eikon, low gain Piety, over Unison.

The main difference is that there's more haze around the spatial presentation, not so much pinpoint placement of where everything is coming from. It's pretty obvious, side by side, that instruments are placed a lot more precisely in OS. Haze is not necessarily worse here, though. The OS can be so pinpoint that there's too much empty space for things that -feel- like they should be enveloping. NOS has a larger, less precise placement with a strong tendency to fill that space in. The relative placement of everything is still clear left-to-right, it hasn't turned into soundwave soup or anything, it's just not precise. I figure whether that's worse or not is up to the listener, and maybe the recording.

Also, the sound feels softer. Definitely this specific setup is not fatiguing at reasonable volumes (sounding good at low volumes and not tiring so my ears will still work in a few decades is an important sonic priority). At least on this setup I don't feel I'm taking much of a penalty on detail/clarity/etc - maybe it and Piety just play well together. And I'm not the best judge of tone, but people who have a 2/64 and feel it's too bright for them might try it like this, too.

I didn't like the NOS on original Bifrost 2, felt like it did some bad things to the sound that I didn't expect (but then, maybe I didn't give it enough time, didn't warm it up enough, who knows - could be the people who like that are hearing what I'm hearing now). On 2/64, I feel like it's more competitive. It's certainly different.

 

Tried it, no go.

 

Sibilance is a confusing audio gremlin. At times managing to audibly kill a lot of it off seems to make it sound inexplicably more annoying to me. I figure it has to be more about how it's delivered than what level it's at.

 

I also think it is baked into the way the recording is set up. Then we are left to deal with it at playback, when a small change at recording could've eliminated the problem, or at least allowed it to be mitigated at playback with minimal effect on the balance of the recording. . My 2 cents.

 

For those still rocking the original Bifrost 2 (OG), I would like to share my brief impression with its NOS mode (made possible by the latest firmware).

Also as consideration for my background - i listen to all genres of music on my gear - I do not segment any groups of music to certain headphones or gear.

I've run BF2 - NOS in two different scenarios:

BF2 > Woo Audio WA2 > ZMF Atticus
BF2 > iFi Zen Can Signature HFM > Edition XS

In a nutshell, my key takeaway from NOS mode with the OG Bifrost 2 is that it looses the sparkle from the top end, and instead, that magic gets peppered into the sub-bass. My initial impression is that the bass suddenly really came alive in the Atticus, i could begin to feel more added texture and rumble in the bass with NOS, vs the MCB with the same listening volumes. This carried over for me with the Zen Can / Edition XS as well (although a bit more pronounced on the Atticus) However, the notes in the treble do get slightly rounded in NOS, and the mids take a slight step back (every so slightly recessed) but vocals do sound slightly fuller and notes more weighted.

Switching between the two modes (for me / in my setup) did not result at all in drastically changing the core of the music - the details/resolution, PRAT, timbre, etc. remained no matter what. The modes just offered a different presentation -- one that lends to a bit more airy/sparkle like sound, and the other to a bit of rumble and sub-bass and more bass texture. Where it adds to one end, it substracted in the opposite end.

For those curious, my WA2 amp is very neutral with just a touch of warmth (Tubes: Philips Miniwatt E88CC/RCA 6AS7G/SER Sweden (Ericsson) 6X4).

I did not feel one mode was better than the other - both were enjoyable to me. I'm also not sure if what I am hearing here goes against the grain, but i'm writing about it nonetheless. The NOS mode and firmware update was something I did on a whim, and I completely did not expect to hear what I did from a simple firmware update - it was a pleasant surprise because prior to this, I was debating on whether or not the combination of my gear could produce more textured bass (i was starting to look at other possible DAC upgrades), and this update gives me just enough of that to be satisfied.

 

Tonight I was able to listen to the Black Widow 2 with @Erroneous ' Holo Audio May DAC, and thought I'd offer some insight for those thinking of going that route for an upgrade. I've been using @Joshvar 's BF2 as a DAC for a bit and have owned one previously, and am pretty familiar with its sound by now.

The May is considerably more "hi-fi" sounding in that it has a blacker, more contrast-y presentation.... whereas the BF2 is much more "organic" in comparison, and feels more seductive. The Holo May (and Spring, which I had on loan a while back) are more rock-n-roll type DACS, in that they are not trying to seduce, but dazzle. It is just a very different house sound in that sense.

I was surprised in how much the BF2 holds it own and is right at the razor's edge of TOTL for a stupid price, only falling short in a few key areas and not by very much. I feel like if the BF2 was $1,000 more expensive and in a bigger chassis, no one would bat an eyelash. It's one of the best deals in audio right now.

But it does fall a bit short of the big boys, in this case, the May, in that BF2 is decidedly shoutier and less refined in upper mids and treble. The May is more even across the board, and more refined, especially in the treble, with the BF2 losing a bit of articulation up there. The May also has a blacker background, in which sounds are given a little more breathing room and allowed to reveal greater differences... though I feel this blackground thing is a liability with regard to ultimate plankton, of which the Holo stuff trades in for more pizzazz and showstopper moments. The BF2 actually retains alot of the Schiit plankton found in their TOTL DACs, and you can hear more "grit" and "gristle" that the Holo DACs don't seem interested in. Basically it's like 4K digital projection vs. 35mm film.... a more vivid approach vs. soup-y organic gritty chemical stuff.

This blacker, more vivid approach I felt worked really really well with the Black Widow and it's similar tonal aspirations. But the BF2 also has a pretty black background (not as black as the holo, but still up there) and strangely also works extremely well with the Eddie Current, and I'm not sure I could choose one over the other as an appropriate tonal match for the amp. They are both taking full advantage of the amp's house sound.

The May is more relaxed sounding too, with the Schiit being a bit more aggressive and upfront (which is typical of Schiit DACs), and this combined with its slight shout in the upper mids becomes a bit of a liability with the very open mids of the Black Widow.

I also think the May has a deeper stage. Bit better imaging. More refined overall certainly. The May just feels like a classier, more technically capable juggernaut.

Where the BF2 completely destroys the May is in the value proposition. I would not say this is the case with the Yggdrasil, as I feel that DAC is worth the extra $1.2K or so... but the May is quite a bit pricier than that, and those pinching pennies may want to put more money into better transducers or amp, which will offer bigger performance increases (though even the value proposition of headphones also sucks these days).

The sum it up, BF2 owners should rest comfortable in the fact that they have a top tier DAC, if only falling short of true TOTL by several inches and not feet. But the May I do think is an "upgrade" in many technical areas (except ultimate plankton retrieval, but even that is not that much in the world of DACs).

 

Yeah agreed, BF2 really does trade blows with some heavy hitters, at least in the right chain. Crazy value. OG BF2, at least, has some of the A2 “grit” with a dose of blackground, which can be pretty alluring.

 

Same -- I had a DAVE for a few weeks and the BF2 is the main reason I no longer have it.

The value prop is spot-on where the BF2 can make anything more upscale difficult to fully justify.

 

Definitely. I had traded in the Yggdrasil for the BF2 at one point. The OG BF2 gave me conservatively 85-90% of the Yggdrasil. And on a headphone rig - the differences are even less. Just my opinion, but i've always subscribed to the idea of the BF2 being a mini Yggdrasil. That is still a hill i'm wiling to die on. And at its price point (new or used), it really is a true bargain.

 

I'll take Tarantinos 70mm Hateful Eight any day over all the digital (Marvel) shovelware, it's bigger, bolder - it breathes...
I got the OG Bifrost with a Violectric V226 as my desktop rig and couldn't be happier, it is an addicting sound, imho the Bifrost 2 still is an absolute homerun.

 

I just upgraded from the Modi MB to the BF 2/64 and I can only sum it up with WTF?!? Such a huge performance upgrade compared to the $ invested. I really didn't expect that much extra for the $500 difference in retail price. I'm hoping to spend some time investigating the NOS shortly but I'm quite enjoying the flavor of this burrito.

 

Bumping this because I hear this effect even more pronounced on the Ragnarok 1.5 during a recent brief DAC swap with @Joshvar, whereas while the LIM sounds very clear and crisp, it comes off a bit more sterile because it shaves off those last percentages of plankton, making things sound more "hi-fi" and a little less realistic to me. Granted, we are talking about small percentages, and I do not think this is a big deal on less resolving amps, but the Rag as I'm coming to learn is a crystal clear window into your gear and it highlights this differences and makes them more severe. BF2 is also impressing more alot more as the Rag reveals quite a bit more musical information this DAC is putting out than I previously thought was the case.

 

I just joined the Bifrost 2/64 club! Upon arrival, I unfortunately had a bittersweet start due to head congestion (and feeling completely shitty) from Covid, so a little anticlimactic at the jump. But this week my head has cleared enough to finally start enjoying this DAC, and man, what an upgrade!

I did also purchase some Snake Oil PYST RCA cables for the BF2/64 + Lyr3 stack just to clean things up. While I wasn't expecting a performance change with those cables, talk about a dumbfounding experience. Once hooking everything up and pressing play, I could only hear audio coming from the left channel of my LCD-Xs. Enter immediate freakout mode. I checked all connections, everything seemed solid, no changes to my signal path from the laptop. Then I grabbed the other pair of RCAs I had lying around - plugged in, all good - phew! So I went back and swapped the channels of the Snake Oil RCAs, and sure enough the right channel was playing while the left was dead. I checked the solder connections of the dead cable, and everything looked completely fine. No idea how a 6" cable could be dead.

Alas, I contacted Schiit support and asked them to just swap for the standard Straight Wire PYST cables instead. Between the cheap feeling nickel plated connectors and the dead cable from Snake Oil, I'm not interested in giving them another shot. I've never experienced a bum RCA cable before - so weird.

Back to the BF2/64, I'm definitely getting the vast upgrade improvements I was hoping for, going from the built-in ES9028 of my Lyr3 to the 2/64. Immediate improvements across the board in detail/resolution, deeper/blacker soundstage, gorgeous bass quality (quantity, punch, tautness, and speed), more focused images, and a considerable uptick in treble clarity. The splashiness of the ES9028 is so much more clearly fleshed out, offering more detail of the instruments up top while also giving actual timbral information. Good-bye, digititus!

The whole listening experience has taken on a whole new dimension of quality and FUN. I'm gonna get in trouble with work, cause I just want to keep listening to my setup (which was much easier to shrug off previously). This DAC is absolutely here to stay, and I'm so glad I finally have the ability to truly peer into music like I've wanted for so long - and now I've got it!

On another note - this hobby is a damn disease, because all I keep thinking about now is cable upgrades, some new headphones to the stable, etc. Ugh...it's gonna be a long while to save the cash for those things, but at least now I have a truly high quality stack to tap into those future additions with!

 

This is why I use Modius at work. Competence without too much engagement.

 

I work from home, and my desk faces directly at the listening area/setup...it's constantly calling to me...

 

I used to think this way. Now people in my office stay away from me because I file my TPS reports 6 days ahead of schedule while listening headphones that look nothing like Beats or Apple AirPods (wait, those things have wires???), plugged into big black boxes and things with burny-hot light bulbs sticking out of the top. They also filed a grievance with management because I used the term "rectifier" during our weekly status meeting.

Also, BF2 OG is ⬆️⬆️⬇️⬇️⬅️➡️⬅️➡️️️BAselectstart for 90%-Yggdrasil upgrade.

 

Maybe management can rectify the problem. Oh, wait…

 

I think there may have been some misunderstanding because Phil in accounting had also mentioned oral fixation with regards to his wife, Peggy's smoking cessation progress, during the same meeting. Karen, however, was seething when I mentioned my recent acquisition of a socket-saver for my new rectifier.