Schiit Gungnir Multibit impressions

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Bill-P, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    At this point I don’t even know if I need Unison, I run off a Pi hat using coax.
     
  2. Melvillian

    Melvillian Friend

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    From memory, the A1 is like Bifrost2 “lite”. Warm sounding but not dark like the Bifrost2. A2 sounds neutral with a “cool” sounding midrange that might take some getting used to. Would be a good match with stock HD650s. It’s a much better fit in my desktop system with P3ESR with the BBC tuning.
    My setup went from mid centric, shouty, and not very resolving with the Bifrost2 to much more even sounding across the board. Resolution is very good. Like gives you goosebumps good. Shoutiness is completely gone.

    I feel like I’m on the right path and now I’m curious about the Yggdrasil GS.

    With the A2 Gungnir Multibit, might want it just for the added softness and bloom. Not as a replacement, but for something different than coax. I’m considering it on mine even though it sounds great via coax.
     
  3. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Okay, after digging deeper into the thread, I think the A2 is more of what I’m looking for. However, I’m in no rush. I’ll enjoy the A1 for what it is and upgrade when I’m ready.
     
  4. Melvillian

    Melvillian Friend

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    Since the Gungnir A2 seems to be a good fit for my system, I’ve been curious about the Yggdrasil A1 since people are saying the Gungnir A2 is similar to it. @purr1n from memory, would you be able to describe how they compare?
     
  5. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I’ve had the A1 in my system since Wednesday morning, replacing a Modi Multibit v1. I’m feeding it coax through a RPi with Volumio via the 502DAC hat (I never upgraded to Pi2AES). I’ve got a Saga for my pre and a Lyr 3 for headphones, a Denon HT receiver for speakers.

    With speakers the biggest difference is in the low end. My speakers have dual 10” woofers and can push some serious air. With the Modi, I could certainly feel the bass, but with the Gungnir that bass is deeper, more powerful, more controlled. I haven’t done much critical listening with my speakers because they’re currently set up more for what’s convenient in the room than optimal listening conditions.

    Switching to headphones, with both my HD580s and JVC FD-X1s, the improvements are not subtle. Modi Multibit is a good DAC, in some ways it punches above its weight, but it simply cannot punch up to the level of the Gungnir. In every respect the Gungnir is the better DAC. First, the sense of space is greatly enhanced, not just in depth and height but in the sense of space around instruments and voices. Perhaps layering is more what I’m describing. Each instrument can be clearly heard while still remaining part of the cohesive whole. Listening to albums like Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band or Dark Side, recordings with lots of small, hard to discern details, not only does the Gungnir clearly reproduce those small details, but they occupy a defined space within the greater recording.

    And of course detail retrieval is just stellar. This ties into other aspects of the Gungnir that really struck me, its precision and immediacy. Something about the accumulation of so many small details, from intentional insertions to things like the clear thump of hands on tablas, the movement of fingers up and down the frets of a guitar, etc, gives the music both a precision and immediacy that frankly eludes lesser DACs.

    Tone and texture round things out, so the recordings sound more “real” for lack of a better term.

    There have been many wow moments in the last few days. The last time I’ve been this consistently impressed with a playback system was when I still owned a VPI Classic. This is the first DAC I’ve owned where I’ve felt like I’m not missing anything by using digital instead of vinyl.

    And the most important thing is that it all sounds so supremely musical, so even though I can critically listen all day long with the Gungnir, I can also just let the music wash over me and take me away. My big problem now is I want a Gungnir quality DAC in my home office, and my bedroom, and in the car, and in a DAP, and and and...
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  6. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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    Still loving my Gungnir Multibit A1 + Lyr3 (+ Auteur) combo as well, glad it's working out for you. Nice to keep getting lost in the music.
     
  7. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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    Well this is a shitty situation. I'm trying to use the Jensen Radial TWIN ISO 1:1 converter for balanced to SE with my A1, and the sound is tinny like the bass just disappeared. However, with the same cables and amps it works just fine when testing with my Bifrost2.

    The A1's balanced out worked absolutely fine with an amp I sold just recently.

    I'm not sure if this is something that could be fixed via warranty (couple more months before 5 years is up) or if it's worth paying the shipping charges to do so.
     
  8. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    two things

    1) the twin iso is actually just a line isolator, it's not meant for this application (conversion to unbalanced line). you would want the j-iso from Radial
    https://www.radialeng.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Twin-ISO-manual.pdf
    https://www.radialeng.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/manual-j-iso-pro-iso.pdf
    so I am a bit confused, are you using an xlr to rca output cable?

    2) the Radial twin iso uses transformers with 600 ohm input impedances, it was discussed a while back that the first generation Schiit DACs could not reliably cope with that load. to be totally honest, it's not really the DACs fault, you should use the right transformers for the job. the J-iso or Pro-iso have 1.3k ohm input impedance
     
  9. k1arg

    k1arg Facebook Friend

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    Also, if there is nontrivial DC on the XLR outs for whatever reason, it will likely saturate the transformers and the bass will drop off a cliff.
     
  10. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    At least a couple of people here on the forum are using the Twin-ISO using an XLR-RCA cable on the output. For me this has worked with all my XLR devices so far.. except on an Audial DAC that is not truly balanced. The problem with the j-iso is that it is 4:1 like the Jensen ISO-MAX PC-2XR... right? A 1:1 transformer should sound a lot better, if all goes right...
     
  11. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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    Correct, I'm using the Twin-ISO with XLR-RCA cables on the output.

    I missed that bit of info; explains why it works fine with the newer Bifrost 2 (though no reason to use it with that due to un-gimped SE).

    Thanks :(

    Will use the BF2 in my main system until I figure out what to do going forward.
     
  12. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    the J-iso uses a jensen JT-11-YMPC which is a 1:1 line transformer

    but, for the record, I would suggest for anyone not afraid to use a soldering iron to simply purchase the transformers of their choice and wire them up themselves. there is a lot better than Jensen and Cinemag, if one really cares about sound.
     
  13. hifiandrun

    hifiandrun Almost "Made"

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    Can you name a few? I read that Cinemag CMLI-15B was a decent choice. Some say the Lundahl transformers are the best, but some say they are not as good as Cinemag. Thanks.
     
  14. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    Jensen is safe, tonally even, but kind of bland
    after trying Cinemag line, output and MC step-up transformers, I can safely say I strongly dislike them, they sound sterile and unnatural to me.

    I have no experience with Lundahl input transformers, I had their line output transformers in a 4P1L pre-amp which were excellent.

    I linked these here before but these are really excellent for the money, about $40 each:
    http://audioalt.ru/product.php?product=2520&cat=97

    for myself if I needed such a device I would use vintage transformers but you have to know what you're looking for, not something I can recommend without knowing the source and destination loads
     
  15. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    So Gungnir A1 was slightly warm. And A2 is slightly brIght.

    does anyone find either to have a dry tonality?
     
  16. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    I don't find my A2 (assuming that is what I have, B S/N, purchased new late September 2017) to be bright at all. Dry? Yeah, maybe, if I understand what is meant by that descriptor. Definitely not warm though.
     
  17. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Interesting. I've read multiple people in this thread describe the A2 as being bright, saying the Yggdrasil swapped places with the Gungnir for the A2 versions.

    I have been thinking for some time to hopefully at some point save up for this DAC for my main speaker/full size headphone rig but if it sounds dry it's a deal breaker for me. I might get to borrow one at some point but I'm just curious what others hear.
     
  18. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    For context, I have pretty old ears, and presumably quite a bit of hf hearing loss, fwiw. I know I can't hear much over 13k, but i'm not sure that is very relevant, particularly with respect to whether it sounds "dry" or not. Left to my own devices, it is not the word I would have chosen to describe its sound. I have heard a few NOS (particularly a Pavane) dacs that had what I would call a tonal density that to me sounded kind of unnatural, though not bad, maybe just different from what I am used to. I am using "dry" to mean kind of the opposite of that, like the space between notes is more distinct with less impingement of one tone upon the other. I actually really like it, but am certain that that is a matter of preference, and I'm also aware that many prefer the A1. I have not heard an A1 version to compare them. @purr1n has written quite a bit about the differences. Think he might also have an A2. Hope that helps.
     
  19. bobboxbody

    bobboxbody Friend

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    I just got my Gungnir back from Schiit 2 days ago with a Gen 5 to Unison and A1 to A2 upgrade. After reading about A2 I didn't think I really wanted it, but there was a problem with my A1 board, so not much choice. The biggest changes I have noticed are in agreement with @Senorx12562 - There are cleaner transients and separation but still a great natural sounding decay. The other major difference(major in DAC terms, not like headphone differences) is a better sense of space, things sound more 3D. I haven't noticed any increased brightness, but my single driver speakers and Auteurs are both darker transducers so that could be filtering out some HF. I think I'm hearing more low-level detail as well, but I spent a month with Modi multibit while Gungnir was being repaired/upgraded, so no side by side comparison. The other variable is that I'm mainly listening to the balanced outs now vs SE before, so my comparisons are far from a controlled situation. I would recommend A2 over A1, but I was perfectly happy with A1.
     
  20. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    This reminds me of something I forgot to mention but might be important. The characteristics I mentioned are far more apparent to me on speakers than 'phones, but I don't generally pick up much in the way of spatial info from the latter, other than the relationship between different instruments/parts, which I would call imaging or image specificity. All still pretty much inside my head though. Maybe I just have not had a good enough pair of cans.
     

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