Schiit Jotunheim impressions

By the time you buy a Jotunheim and a Saga, you're looking at Mjolnir 2 money. Think about that.

 

Ok, you asked for it, so here it is.

Audio chain: PC running JRiverMC > Bifrost > Saga > Jotunheim. (I leave my Bifrost and Jot on 24/7. Saga gets turned off to conserve the valve.)

Method: I took a current production Northern Electric 6SN7 and put it into the Saga. Ran it for about 20 min before listening. Played Black Sabbath's The Wizard 5 times. (5 bloody times for you people... monthly dose of Sabbath met.) File is 24/96 FLAC. All I did was sit there with my eyes closed listening for treble details, staging, etc. I then took the NE out and put in an NOS 1953 Sylvania 6SN7 GTB and let it cook for about 10 min, then started listening again. The results are...

<cuts to commercial>

The tubes, from L to R: NE 6SN7, Schiit stock tube, Sylvania 6SN7GTB.


Listening on my Eikons


Confirming source quality


NE 6SN7...


Sylvania 6SN7GTB


<back to regularly scheduled programming>

And the results are:

Yes, there is a difference. One that I think could only really be discerned by A/B'ing gear. I started with the NE tube because on my Elise it presented a lot of treble and the sound stage was decently wide. I honestly didn't like them on the Elise. I chose the Sylvania because it was the warmest, most gooey sounding of the tubes I tried and had a kind of hazy yet wider sound stage in my Elise. I liked them and use them in my Elise.

The two biggest changes I perceived going from the NE to the Sylv on the Saga were a very slight decrease in treble energy and a slight improvement in staging. That was the expected result. As such, a certain amount of mental bias should be factored in. Either way, for me, it is an itsy-bitsy baby step in the right direction for my Eikons, but it didn't fix the Jot's somewhat narrow staging. I still do not perceive the Eikon as being bright on the Jot.

TL;DR: Using my 2 most different sounding tubes, only very slight changes were heard. VERY SLIGHT. I can't emphasize that enough. IMO, tube rolling a Saga isn't something that's going to fix bright headphones, or bring out lots of treble in dark cans. It just isn't. YMMV.

Thanks. And sorry for all the terrible pics.

 

Why I went Sagenheim: Mj is just too big for my desk, and I'm a sucker for trying the new stuff.

 

Reinforcing previous advice: get Saga / Freya if you need a preamp for speaker, otherwise get another amp.

Looks like Vali 2/Mojo 2 will company Jot...

 

It's funny, but some delta-sigma DAC implemntations come close to R2R in tonality. (None of the Sabre ones of course.) They're the rare dime a dozen ones though. And not the AKMs.

Why the heck do you say Jot has the narrow headstage? The thing is quite wide on equalized HD650s. The shape is different (instrument distribution L/R) than typical but width is correct.

Are you sure it's not something upstream/downstream of it causing the problem? Broken FR can cause all kinds of width and soundstaging issues for example.

That tube rolling on Saga affects anything (consider Jot's input buffers, Saga essentially is a noop in this setup) suggests FR issue somewhere.

 

Hi!

I didn't say it had narrow staging, I said somewhat narrow. Compared to the other amps I've used the Eikon with, this is true. Csp3, Elise, etc. The HD650 wasn't used for this test. I don't believe I have the issues you mentioned.

 

Hm, those Eikons are also 300 Ohm and I bet an uneven impedance curve much like HD650s. As I've mentioned, I clearly detected audible FR differences on Jotunheim. I'd recommend you use some sine sweeps and verify.

Maybe I'll bag one of these if/when they become available. There's a dearth of great closed headphones out there and I'd like one of those for my workplace. (rather than the studio)

 

That's a good point. I imagine all dynamics exhibit that trait though, yes?

Anyhow, for the purpose of determining how Saga changes with tubes, I think that's about the most objective of a conclusion as I can get in a subjective test. If I had a measurement rig, which I don't, it would be much better.

If you love the 650, I imagine you would like the Eikon! Hope you get to hear one. Loving mine.

K, bed time. G'night Friends!

 

Several of the older AKMs beat the Yggdrasil and Gungnir Multibit easily for tonality. Many current production DS DACs do too. Where they are usually inferior is retrieval of low level detail in recordings and instrumental separation due to the Burrito filter. Usually treble timbre too but not always.

 

I posted a question in the all purpose thread asking if a device exists that could switch the Vali 2 in and out as a pre-amp so as to not have to dis/reconnect if wanting to listen to the Jot directly. It's been a day and nobody's answered so I figure it's either a really hard question or a really stupid one.

 

I can only think of getting another preamp with a tape loop and putting the Vali 2 on the tape loop. Seems like serious overkill though.

 

Is this possible, and even recommended?

1. Buy a Jotunheim with USB DAC module and Saga.
2. Set the Jotunheim to DAC/amp mode, and turn up its volume control to the max
3. Connect PC to Jotunheim with USB
4. Connect the RCA outputs of Jotunheim into Saga's RCA inputs
5. Connect the RCA outputs of Saga to Jotunheim's RCA inputs
6. Enjoy the Sagaheim, using Saga's volume control and Jotunheim's own DAC

 

I doubt it. There's got to be something that forces the Jot's amp to choose either its DAC or analogue in. I would guess if the DAC has input, that's what has priority.

Edit: Looking at the manual, the input switch lets you choose module, SE, or balanced. You can't have cake and eat it too.

 

That would be fun to watch. I'm imagining something like spontaneous combustion.

 

Put the switch in the "inbetween" position? Jk, that would be hilarious if it worked though. Also, have a fire extinguisher near by.

 

Exponential oscillating cascade failure -- good times

 

Not going to happen. Jotunheim preamp output is downstream from input selector. RCA inputs are not sending signal anywhere but the input selector which has DAC output selected. If one mistakenly selected back to the RCA when Saga and Jotunheim are interconnected as described a feedback loop will be formed. Oscillation will occur. Might be benign or could result in maximum smoke.

 

You sound ridiculous. Which dacs are these ?
I have heard older and newer AKM chips (not in megabuck devices, though), I'd need to bang my head into stone wall while drunk to say such a thing myself.
Then again, I might have different reference for 'correct tonality'.

 

Ok how about this: get two Sys. Set the first up 1-in-2-out and plug the DAC in the input. Set the second Sys up 2-in-1-out and plug the Jotunheim in the output. Connect the two outs of the first Sys to the two ins of the second, one path directly and the other through the Vali. Now by flipping the input selector on both Sys you can toggle the Vali in and out of the signal path.

 

That's a great point, and one that keeps me going back and forth in terms of what to do with the jotun (if anything at all). It's perfectly fine for my use case, but when I'm feeling picky I wish for a little more (e.g., more 3d soundstage, more refined, smoother treble). Anyone here have experience with both the MJ2 and Sagaheim?