Schiit Jotunheim impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Bill-P, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. Mdkaler

    Mdkaler Friend

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    It is probably a bad idea to put it under a laptop. Adding a good 10-20C to the processor will throttle performance and shorten life. Then I see you're from Toronto, mmmmhm maybe it does need the extra warmth :rolleyes:
     
  2. Iron-Buddha

    Iron-Buddha New

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    It's snowing today.......
     
  3. supertransformingdhruv

    supertransformingdhruv Almost "Made"

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    Honestly now i'm worried you should be warming that poor PC up more. Consider stacking Jot -> electric heating pad -> laptop, or maybe sandwiching your laptop between two Jots.

    You know how you move more slowly when it's cold? Maybe it's the same for electrons...
     
  4. Corso

    Corso New

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    When I've searched for and read some reviews of the RSA Nighthawk it's quickly become clear that it's a highly regarded phono stage and supposed to be of tremendous value. It blows me away that when the Jotunheim phono stage is compared to the Nighthawk in this Jotunheim Phono Assessment that it is rated as being only a little bit behind the RSA - but not by much, and that it's only slightly more veiled.

    I think that this speaks volumes (in very few words) as to how good the Jotunheim phono module actually is for its price. At the moment there seems to be a lack of info out there about the Jot phono stage and It appears to be fairly underrated. I'd love to hear more reviews of it in greater detail.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  5. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

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    I've got a Multibit card on order for my Jotunheim.. be here on monday. I've been using the built in AKM4490 card since I bought Jot a couple years ago. I'ts regretful that they could not implement Gen5 USB. Though, I purchased a W4S Recovery for the original 4490 and saw significant improvements. Guess it will continue with the Multibit card as a "Half" measure. I've looked for an affordable usb conditioner product that was better then W4S Recovery in a meaningful way at a reasonable price, came up empty handed. Ifi igalvanic might be better, but it's way to expensive, I only paid ~90$ for the recovery (used).

    Really did not want to go down the Modi Multibit + Eitr + Jotunheim route. Trying to keep my system simple (Currently, Jotunheim, W4S Recovery, HD650 (phones) + balanced out to JBL LSR305 (speakers). A nice, compact and clean setup.

    It looks like Schiit is going down this modular path and it's pretty cool, but they are cannabilizing their own products when you can't use Eitr or Loki with these modules. They really should figure out how to do SPDIF input, they always say there's no room, well I say figure it out.. break-out cables should be doable. I find loki pretty interesting and I might give it a go if I could use it.

    Maybe we'll see a Multibit card V2 in a couple years, that implements Schiit's own in house USB tech they claim to be working on, that matches Gen5 in a smaller package. Not sure you can really beat Gen5, it's the point of diminishing returns already, hard to improve on something that good already, but it's a pretty complicated solution with alot of parts, relatively speaking.

    I don't buy that there's not enough Room for Gen5 USB on the "new" AKM4490 card though. It's tiny compared to the Multibit module. That would be a harder choice though for the end user, 4490 + Gen 5 usb, or Multibit + Gen2. I believe the benefits of Gen5 to be so great that the 4490 solution might end up actually being preferable to many.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  6. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

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    Actually, upon further searching, it looks like the Uptone ISO Regen, might be a suitable "upgrade" from my W4S Recovery, allowing for proper Galvanic isolation with the Multibit module upgrade for Jot. Used ones frequently pop up for 225-250$ on HF. I could then sell the Recovery for 75-100$.

    Thoughts?
     
  7. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

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    There's an interesting thread on a site called "audio science review" that measures the the ISO Regen, they are not impressed. Does nothing for well implemented Dac's, but they did test it on a Modi 2 and saw a big improvement in measurements, unfortunately that's because it looks like the Schiit Gen2 lives up to it's name... too bad. I suspected as much myself, as I noticed a larger then expected (ie significant) difference in performance when I added the W4S Recovery to my Jot, which also uses Gen2 USB.

    The Audio science review folks seem to think that it's a function of the USB power clean up alone, and the reclocking, and even Galvanic isolation do little to nothing. If that's the case, my Recovery already clips the USB power and inject's it's own (I currently use an ipower low noise brick to power it)...

    interesting stuff, it's somewhat surprising that Schiit did such a horrible job with the Gen2 usb. They tested 2000$ dac's and 79$ behringer dac's, they were both significantly better then Schiit's Gen 2 USB, and neither were much improved by a decrapifier, unlike the Modi 2, which was improved.
     
  8. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    yah, one thought comes to mind:
    SBAF doesn't give a crap anymore about USB decrapification.
     
  9. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

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    yeah I gathered that, but in my case, (Jot + MB module) Eitr is not an option. Was just trying to get a current sugestion for something that might improve some of GEN2's issues, at an affordable price (~200$). I've been out of the decrapifier market for a couple years, since I got the Recovery. I do wonder how a plain ol' Intona fares, never tried one, but considering it's original application, I have no doubt it works. Ideally whatever I got would be better then the Recovery, and I'd sell the recovery to recoup some of the price.

    I only recently found that ASR website, that fellow's pretty brutal on everything, you should see his review of the Bifrost multi-bit. Brutal. The fellow seems to have some kind of agenda.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Take everything you've read on Anal Sphinter Reaming Magazine and dump it into the shitter.

    The Regen is like any other USB decrapifier device. It has its own sound, like the Wyrd, Off Ramp, JK, Pedophilio - or whatever it's called, and the Brain Sinxger. I've experienced way too many to keep count.

    Whatever the Regen does in terms of measurements* to Schiit Gen 2 or non Schiit DACs, it's the sound that matters. I actually do not like the Regen in many circumstances. IMO, the Regen made things sound worse with the Gungnir Multibit Gen 2, at least with my chains and my perferences.

    Also keep in mind that USB transmitter also makes a difference. Dedicated USB PCI cards or ports on quality motherboards and laptops so sound better than shitty USB outs on shittier compter gear. Sometimes different USB out ports sound better than others.

    At Jot, Lyr 3, NFB1, iFi BL, Mojo, etc. AIO price points, it doesn't make any sense to get a USB decrapifier since it defeats the point of AIO. If you truly want performance, better off putting the money for the DAC module / card and decrapifier toward a separate superior DAC with better USB.

    * Measurements are awesome, but spectrum analysis in frequency domain via FFT of time domain information only tells us so much.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  11. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

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    Just to be clear I was talking about the ISO Regen, a newer uptone product with a better clock and proper galvanic isolation, not the older standard regen.

    The problem is I’m not willing to spend big money in a fancy psu for that product, and putting a smps -after- galvanic isolation seems dumb.

    Intona may not use fancy clocks but it does maintain proper isolation by not injecting an smps into the mix after isolation.

    I agree with not spending a ton of money on a usb transport for a 600$ Dac/amp combo. I bought the original w4s recovery used for 90$ and thought it to be a worthwhile tweak.

    In retrospect it would have been smarter to sell the recovery and ipower wall wart for 125$ and combine that with the 200 I paid for the multi bit module and use it to buy a gen5 Bifrost Multibit... but here I am now. I have not
    Even heard the jot with the module yet, as it’s due in the mail today.

    I get what your saying about ASR and I don’t take it as gospel, but it feels like -some- of Amir’s work is useful.

    If I gleaned anything so far it’s that schiit gen2 is pretty bad and there is some low hanging fruit there to be fixed, that jives with my own experience with jot og Dac module plus recovery...
     
  12. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    There is a standoff supporting post for the MB card, but it was missing from some of the shipments. Schiit will send it to you if you contact them.

    The topic came up on Head-Fi:
    You can see a pic of it in the instructions linked here:
     
  13. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

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    Module arrived today, I just got finished installing it, pretty simple, but I have some technical skills (not that they are really needed for this).

    I don't really notice any give on my USB connector, it's pretty firm. Seems about as stable as before.. fyi.

    I've only had the Multibit module turned on for half an hour playing music, but I really like what im hearing already! Looks like i've been missing out on what the Jot can really do for awhile now.

    I need to listen to this dac and live with it for awhile, before I experiment further with any kind of decrapifiers, I will let it warm up and burn in for a week or so, and try it with and without the current device I use (W4S Recovery) and try to learn it's sound signature before I consider other devices.

    Right away it reminds me of a more refined version of a dac I used to have years ago... some ebay teradak with old ass 90's chips.. it had 8 of them stacked. That dac had a naturalness and instrument separation and layering to it that i've not heard since, it had other problems that I could not live with so I moved on to other gear, but nothing ever quite managed to do some of the things it did well, im hearing some of that return with schiit multi-bit!
     
  14. Vordhosbn

    Vordhosbn Acquaintance

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    Mine had the standoff, but the window bracket wasn't included. Schiit is already sending me one.
     
  15. Iron-Buddha

    Iron-Buddha New

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    Just wanted to report that I had two incidents with the Jomby of ringing in the right channel. Sounds like a high pitched hollow metallic sound (meditation bowl). Easily fixed by a power cycle, but the first time I had to trouble shoot the entire chain (because, how could my new toy be defective?!) Not sure why this is happening and would be interested if people have any ideas for a permanent fix. Don't damage your hearing in the meantime. Cycle that thing!
     
  16. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

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    Your not the only one that has reported this, it has happened to me as well. It seems pretty rare, it appears to be software bug. The standalone Modi Multibit does it too. If a fix comes it will have to come from Schiit, I don't think there's anything we can do about it. I've not hears Schiit ever acknowledge the problem.
     
  17. HIFIDB

    HIFIDB New

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    Looks like their is a new version of the 4490 the original Jotunheim passive DAC module and the new Universal DAC module 4490 G2 has anyone compared the 2?
     
  18. Gruss Gott

    Gruss Gott Almost "Made"

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    I've been dicking around with mid-fi stuff for about 2 years (like the mojo, etc) and bought and returned a lot of stuff. In reading reviews / posts I've perceived this "musical" experience others are having, but I wasn't ... and I wasn't sure if it's the gear, my ears, or my head.

    Anyway, TLDR - the Jot setup I have now could be endgame for me because it's finally the point where the music is emotional again: I can FEEL the kick drum or, with just a tad suspension of disbelief, believe Lou Reed is right in front of me. I don't know what others mean by "euphonic", but for me this is it. (of course I'll make sure by purchasing ever more spendy hi-fi gear, but whatever, let's stay on topic as i'm trying to make a point here).

    (1.) Nice set of cans
    The key was first getting the right headphones for me which are the TH-x00 and to a certain extent the HD-600 which I kind of use as a reference; everything sounds "better" on the HD-600s, but it's not as musical as the TH-x00. It can depend on the track and blah blah blah, but in general the Fostex are my jam-cans. I tried the AFC, 650s, and lots of other sub-$1k cans and learned a lot, but those two are my keepers.

    (2.) Make 'em bounce
    The next thing was getting the right DAC/amp. I'll skip the details, but eventually I settled on the Modi Multibit / Jotunheim.

    (3.) Strap 'em in!
    It wasn't until I added the Eitr AND good cables that the magic happened. At first I went with "cables don't matter", then "sort of, but not with my mid-fi stuff", then "fuckit, I think cables matter. a lot." And at that point I added Audioquest golden gate RCAs, cinnamon spdif, and carbon USB. To be clear (pun intended), I tried a lot of cables. I tried flipping them around. I tried DBTs. They matter - if they don't for you, that's cool, but they sure do for me. And it's weird because when I critically listen it's not a huge thing, but when I emotionally listen it's a huge thing. It wasn't until the AQs were in place that I realized, "holy shit. this could be end-game right here. I don't even need an Yggdrasil or whatever!" (note: I'm totally still getting an Yggdrasil. let's not be unrealistic here). Final bit of "synergy"? I dunno.

    Here are songs that proved to me - the kind of tracks that you think, "holy shit, THIS. THIS."

    Crank it up.

    - Perfect Day, Lou Reed - classic, intimate track to get things started
    - My oh My, Punch Brothers - damn son! You'll forget you're not actually in the band by the end of this track
    - Hot Butter, Nathy Peluso - holy sub-bass something just melted
    - Big God, Florence + Machine - My wife for sure can never listen to this track, she's pissed enough
    - Hit 'em Up Style, Carolina Chocolate Drops - this blue grass / folk remake of Blu Cantrell is awesome on youtube, watching the violin bowstring hair fry off, and this chick at 3m+ just blasts
    - Tangerine, Rebecca Pidgeon - grab a cocktail, your best ascot, and watch the sunset
    - Empty Temples, The Sword (Low Country) - pull up a hay bail to the fire, bring your guitar, and get ready to play melody
    - Divine Moments of Truth, Shpongle - closest thing to a mushroom trip without mushrooms. By 30s you're hearing colors, and by 2m don't look at anybody! Snakes will crawl out of their eye sockets. I warned you.
    - In the Mix (orig mix), Funk the Beat - turn out all the lights and grab a flashlight to jump around with but be careful - there's no predicting what your ass is gonna do with this track
    - Last Night in Los Feliz, Niia - this chick will sing right through you on this track

    Bonus track:
    Back in the early 90s I was in NorCal and on Sunday mornings I used to go down to the ferry building area and there were these bleachers by the water and random people would show up with whatever instruments and just jam for hours. But always people with bongos. This track reminds me of that, and with the right system - whoa.

    - Sangandongo, Niagra

    MBP > Tidal Hi-Fi > AQ carbon > Eitr > AQ Cinnamon > Modi Multibit > AQ Golden Gate > Jot > SE TH-x00 or Bal HD-600

    More headphones coming, but not needed
    :Violin:
     
  19. dropadred

    dropadred New

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    I am interested too, reading Jason's chapter we know already "it sounds significantly better", but still...I guess from what I saw at Lyr 3 topic the new G2 4490 card will be the exact "sonic opposite" of the original card.
     
  20. psuKinger

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    Hello SBAFs. I've been doing at least Mid-Fi 2.1 stereo + whole home audio for a decade now, but I'm pretty new to the Mid-Fi/Hi-Fi game when it comes to Headphones. But over the last couple of months I've dived in head first without a whole lot of caution. I've got active drops on Sennheiser HD6XX's, Fostex TR-X00 Mahogany's, and as of today HiFiMan HE4XX's... The HiFiMan should beat the Senn's and the Fostex's to my door.

    This has all happened pretty fast. I bought a pair of Sennheiser HD1's back in January and they were such a step change from what I'd been using until then, that it clearly piqued my interest in "better headphones" pretty fast. And now 7 months later here I am.


    I think I'm about to pull the trigger on a Jot with built-in Multibit DAC. It'd be my first DAC/AMP of any significance (my FiiO Q1 doesn't count). My hope/intent is to just skip a few steps/expenses and go straight to a more "proper solution", unlike what I did with my first "big screen" HDTV, my first Front Left-Right's, my first sub, my first surround sound speakers, my first HTPC/Plex Server, etc etc etc.

    Before I do it, do any SBAF's want to call my attention to a different DAC/AMP combo that they think I should be considering that is similarly priced (or lower)? Any Jot+MB owners out there want to throw a relative newbie some caution that I might be making a mistake and I don't realize it? Just wanted to solicit input/suggestions from the community/owners before I pull the trigger... based on what I've read in this thread so far, the "Balanced" ($100) DAC isn't very highly recommended, which was disappointing (but necessary) for me to see, I've accepted it as the guidance from a more informed community, and unless someone steers me differently I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on a Jot+MB.
     

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