SCHIIT JOTUNHEIM WORLD PREMIERE: Schiit Show 2 - August 27, 2016 So Cal

Specs on their website show 7.5 W (!!!) into 16 ohm coming out of balanced, but nothing posted about how it performs into 8 ohm load.

 

Who wants to bet the 2 channel lineup is based on an amp very similar to this one. Maybe I should be taking notes if this is the baby brother of what is to come.

 

Thanks. I read all that, and calculated the E/I relationships. You can rely on increasing power into lower impedances until the current limit is reached. What remained was the unknown region below 16 ohms. All I need is about 2 to 3 watts (e.g. 2A3). I'll be interested to see what the "2 channel" amps are.

 

thats what im really interested in.
For me, speakers > headphones
I cant wait for 2 channel schiit.

 

Hmmmm, so, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the Jinkleheimer. I mean, it's not like we couldn't plug stuff like a phono or a DAC in before an amp stage before. So, unless there is something magical about the proximity and more direct connection between add-in-board and amp, I'm not sure I get that part.

But I _do_ get the idea of an all-in-one unit. This is a market segment. There are some people that really want it all in one box. For those people, this thing is a dream - excellent performance and upgradeable.

 

I can get where some of the disappointment come from. Very cool on the true balanced functionality at that price though, but that alone doesn't mean a whole lot if it doesn't sound the part.

The modularity thing is great too, ps audio and nad have done stuff like this before, albiet much more expensive. The 4490 dac and mm only phono stage are just teasers it seems. I wonder of the thin size and one sided pcb for the expansion card hold it back in terms of layout, at least the power is taken care of on the other side of the amp.

 

The issue I see is that this integration *seems* unbalanced (no pun intended). That is, a $400 amp with a tiny $100 DAC that excludes Schiit's flagship digital technology. With a shiny new balanced topology, this amp seems to beg to be paired with an equally capable balanced, multibut DAC; but Gungnir Multibit is over 3x the price and 2x the footprint. An AIO based on Magni+Modi would be easier to understand.

Either the DAC module is like a balanced Modi, at which point it's probably holding back the amp; or it's basically a balanced Bifrost, at which point the Bifrost + Asgard/Valhalla/Lyr starts looking like a poor value proposition.

Maybe the implication is that all the full-size Schiit amps will eventually get the expansion slot and the standalone DACs will become multibit only.

 

Does this mean Fulla could become Balanced Fulla?!

 

maybe the 4490 has good synergy with an asahi super dry amp and the flaws of each balance each other out. no comparisons yet so who knows. for all we know the dac is worse than the modi and the amp worse than the valhalla/vali/asgard twos for non playnarz with feeling of powerdrill drilling through your eardrum with kerosene soaked rag of flames. i am the crazy person who thinks modi 2u ak4396 is better than the ak4490 modi and bifrost (Bifrost Multibit sidegrade to old modi) with real upgrades being stuff like emotiva dc-1, the few non shit sabres, and Yggdrasil and that the valhalla 2 and rag are rough turds so who knows. anything uis possible for the jormungand.

 

This does seem to beg a balanced Bifrost Multibit to pair with in the same type of chassis. And I did immediately think of the DC-1 as a logical competitor for someone looking for AIO.

 

the amp sucks on the dc-1 though except for driving crappy cans like hd 598 and closed studio stuff so it's not really a good all in once choice; more like emotiva shoved some some cheap op amps in it as they could for more features so a studio that uses speakers and cheap monitoring cans might not need to buy an additional headphone amp.

 

Took me a while to get home and upload stuff and select a choice of words to describe it. i think the only people i recognized was T$, Jason, and Mike. Having never heard a Schiit product before, i thought i was in for a rude awakening at this event. That rude awakening was the Focal Utopia, which i know wasn't reaching it's full potential. The event seemed a little dead after the first two hours...i was probably at one station for an hour or two with no line..oh well more audition time for me. I really regret not being able to listen and compare Jotun against any of the other schiit product line i.e. Mumby, Yggdrasil, or AS2.

Not going to repeat what's already been said and i also am not in the target market as the equipment i already have is better. I am not a fan of the 4490 DAC (1st time i heard one) so i tried things to assess the amp by itself. They would've had a chance to sell me an Yggdrasil on the spot hehe, i was actually afraid i might walk out with one.




The Elear is no longer on my radar due to a staging/presentation flaw (game over). I will live happily with my HD6x0 which arent technically as good, but don't have such issue. I dont have any positive things to say about Playnars so i will abstain. The modded HD800 station had the longest wait.


Wanted to get away from the built in DAC and Testing the Photostage. Im not familiar with Vinyl at all. Since no one wanted to listen to the vinyl rig, i got to listen to an entire album. Sounded much better than the 4490 when it wasn't hissing and popping. If there was albums that i was more familiar with, i would've spent the entire time at this station.


Tried to assess the amp by itself with music and source that i was familiar with even if it was my really old EX1A. I couldn't get my W10 drivers to work so my DAC was gimped (Using my Crappy Ultrabook last resort). Honesty the amp yielded the expected midfi SS sound (my defN of midfi - except the noise, no game over technical failures - glare, harshness, clipping; staging/presentation usually not perfect, not very engaging, absent of 'desirable' texture) without that AK DAC messing it up, and i really wanted to compare it to the AS2 to understand where exactly in the food chain it would fall. My primary beef with the Jotun amp (regardless of its target performance level) was that it made noise when i turned the volume up just past 12oclock (about 50%) on an HD800; i would've thought they designed this to be quieter because all my other amps are dead quiet.

Conclusion - ignoring the noise issue, it is a solid average mid-fi headphone amp in my mind. Given meet conditions, I believe the amp standalone to perform sonically at approximately the same level as my single ended Ckkiii (see my diy thread) which I consider to be mid fi. (No global feedback, exotic toshiba input JFET, exotic Toshiba bjt cfp output stage)

Started to get more interesting when people brought out some home brew goodies and then after the raffle everyone left.

 

Here's some photos from the Schiit Show:



Got there around 10:30am and not many people were there yet.







There were two rooms. The front room had the Utopias, Elears, Ether Flow, and HD800S.
Every station had a Mac and a Jotunheim. No other Schiit products in sight. Kind of a bummer there was no way to compare to anything else.


Utopias sounded pretty good to me, but this is the first time I've heard them. Don't know how much better they can be on a better amp. They reminded me of an SR-009 signature.






Can't really see the great buffet that was available all day. That was really nice. Thanks Schiit!

 

I can see rev 3 versions of Asgard, Valhalla and Lyr adding on functionality for these cards. It streamlines their chassis and the cards wouldn't be limited to just one amp. The card being 'only' 4490 or a basic phono is fine for me. Schiit has always made it clear that a combo is a compromise and that convinience is the main point of a combo system. If I want multibit and multiple inputs guess what? I have that option with Modi, Bifrost, Gungnir and even Yggdrasil. For me the exciting part isn't the DAC or phono but the promise of wireless audio. Something that make a lot of sense as an all-in-one rather then a separate box.

Doesn't make a ton of sense to me that the Modi MB didn't at least make an appearance because it was just released. But hey, a $400 balanced amp(or $500 DAC/Amp) that can power everything competently is a big achievement. As far as solid state headphone amps go, this will likely be my endgame.

My one annoyance is that they still don't have a switch for different voltages. If Schiit is reading this, just add a voltage slide switch to the bottom of the PCB and then make people switch through the bottom of the chassis. No need to mess with your already well designed rear panel and minimal rework of your PCB. Plus since it's on the bottom, only people that really need it(like me) will access it.

 

BTW, for kicks, at the end of the day, I tried driving my AKG K1000's with the Jotunheim.
I was surprised it actually worked at all, but at full gain and the knob around 3 o'clock, the K1000's were pretty loud.

Not enough power for full bass from the AKG's, but pretty respectable for a $400 amp.

 

So... the Schiit Show today. What can I say, it was great fun!

First off, I gotta mention the people. Thanks to all the nice staff at Schiit who were extremely nice and helpful throughout the event. And also, I saw a bunch of other Head-Fi'ers whom I've seen around the other So-Cal headphones here. Like Stillhart, moedawg140, Warren Chi, and others whom I didn't mention. Unfortunately I'm not sure if I recognized any SBAF-exclusive members here since I haven't been here long enough. Definitely lots of animated chatter among them, the Schiit staff, and the other enthusiasts around here.

Speaking of chatter, while people were definitely talking this event was a lot more subtle and low-key than I thought it was going to be. This wasn't some kind of huge fiesta or anything like that, but rather a chill gathering of headphone and audio enthusiasts. I liked that.

This attitude also carried over into how the event was set up for listening. There were two dedicated listening rooms, and both were relatively quiet in that the rooms were relatively sound-proofed from the outside and most of the people inside weren't really chatting. People could actually get in some quality listening time here, which I greatly appreciated.

And I would hate to not mention the extreme generosity in food from Schiit. I mean seriously, there was both a full-featured breakfast and lunch for attendees, and all of the food was pretty good too. Come on, who else would be so generous to give all of this free food of this quality just for trying out their products? I think Schiit might've just convinced some people to come to their side just from this food.

I'll be definitely coming to the Schiit Show next year - can't wait to see what Schiit's cooked up by then while enjoying what will surely be another great event!

My impressions of the Jotunheim are on the next post just below.

 

So I got some good listening time in to the Jotunheim. Like for a good hour or two in relatively quiet conditions in the dedicated listening rooms.

I unfortunately did not bring my own source. I would've brought something along if I had known before they specifically encouraged people to plug in their own sources, but oh well. So I'm not really qualified to make a judgment on the DAC.

However, I will make some comments on what I think about the amp at this point in time. Specifically, I'm going to be doing some comparisons to the Cavalli Liquid Carbon ($800 in the 2nd run) which I do own and have experienced with a variety of headphones and DACs. This I'm more comfortable with talking about since I think I have a handle on the character of the LC, even though I've never heard the Carbon amp with the DAC specifically in the Jotunheim.

The five different headphones that I spent time with listening to the Jotunheim were: Fostex TH-X00, Hifiman HE-560, ZMF Omni, Sennheiser HD800, and the Mr. Speakers Ether Flow. So a variety of both dynamic and planar magnetic headphones.

First off, anyone who's not a fan of the sound signature of Schiit's other amps is still not going to like this one. That being said however, while still being on the bright side I felt the Jotunheim was slightly less bright than the other Schiit amps I've heard. But this could just be my tastes changing over time since I've last heard the other amps. And while bright, I never really felt the Jotunheim sounded harsh.

As for the bass, it was quite punchy and never got out of control. However, while the bass quality was good I feel that the Liquid Carbon has the slightly better bass - it has a bit more, but it's never out of control and more importantly, it seems a bit more textured and detailed than what I heard on the Jotunheim. Still, I don't think many are going to be dissatisfied with the Jotunheim's bass.

As for the mids, well the LC has more lush mids but the Jotunheim's is maybe only slightly less detailed with a brighter tilt. I think it's mainly going to come down to preferences as to which one is better.

Soundstage was definitely a highlight of the Jotunheim. Very wide (though not the widest I've heard from the very best amps) and pretty deep. When you combine this with the excellent imaging capabilities (both left-to-right and depth-wise) you have a very 3D soundstage that is the hallmark of a well-done balanced amp. Heck, even the SE out did a very good job in giving a 3D soundstage. I actually don't think it really loses out here to the LC much, if at all.

Comparing the Jotunheim and the LC overall, I'd say that the LC still has the edge but that is more due to being slightly more detailed and how it presents this detail with smoother notes. Plus it has a warmer tonality that I think sounds more natural, but I've tried to not let this influence my judgment here.

As for pairings with different headphones, I don't think any of the headphones I've mentioned sounded bad with the Jotunheim at all. In fact, the Jotunheim paired well with all of them. The Jotunheim never sounded like it was lacking power for any of those headphones. And though the Jotunheim is on the bright side, it still allowed the characters of each headphone to come through clearly.

The Fostex TH-X00 was very enjoyable on the Jotunheim. Very detailed, with nice seperation and soundstage, and allowing that bass to really come through cleanly and with great punch. The HE-560 sounded very clean and fast without getting harsh. Same for the HD800 surprisingly - the Jotunheim gave the HD800 the chance to show off its massive soundstage and accurate imaging without making it sound particularly harsh. The ZMF Omni's rather large soundstage and slightly warm character came through while still being decently detailed. And the Ether Flow sounds very good with the Jotunheim - punchy bass, a very 3D soundstage, and the Flow never sounded confused even during the most complicated passages due to the Jotunheim really allowing the headphone to demonstrate its speed and seperation.

However, I have heard the HE-560 and the HD800 on better setups before, and what I heard on the Jotunheim definitely is a step down from those setups. Today was actually the first time I heard the Ether Flow, but based on my experiences with the original Ether I'm willing to bet that the Flow has potential that I haven't heard for myself yet, not able to be unlocked by the Jotunheim.

Another thing I wanted to note is this thing runs cool. I'd say it gets only moderately warm, and is much cooler than the rest of Schiit's amps. I mean it's not even a comparison - the Jotunheim physically feels downright chilly compared to Schiit's other stuff.

Oh, and build quality is still just as good as on Schiit's other equipment. That is to say, it's functional and is solidly-built.

Overall, I think this is a win for Schiit, especially at the price. The amp IMO is definitely worth the $400, and the amp/DAC combo is definitely worth the $500.

However, I will also say that the Jotunheim didn't blow me away. Sure it sounds good, but for anyone who already has a killer setup I'm not sure if they're really going to be tempted to get the Jotunheim. I personally am not tempted to get this, and I primarily use a Nuforce UDH-100 (not well-known, but it has a well-implemented AK4390 chip inside) and Cavalli Liquid Carbon combo. And no, I'm not saying that's a killer setup.

I'm actually rather impressed that Schiit put out a decent-sounding balanced amplifier and balanced DAC/amp combo for what they cost. However, the Jotunheim IMO is no giant killer.

 

I think it was a mistake to not bring along some of the Multibit DACs, because I think a lot of the sound impressions we're seeing are more impressions of the DAC, which is limited compared to the amp. I plugged my Pono into a Joti and I found the sound became more laid back and refined, it took on more of the Pono's characteristics. I'm willing to bet once people start hooking this amp up to better DACs, we'll get more positive reactions.

I do realize that the MB DACs require warm up time, but even some Mombys would have shown off the amp-only side of the Joti.

 

I should add that when I say the DAC is limited compared to the amp, I mean that the DAC has its set of sonic characteristics that are unchanging, whereas I think the amp is more versatile and will show off the characteristics of the source. I actually think the included DAC sounds decent, but the Pono has a completely different sound and the amp reproduced it very well. Also I thought the phono sounded sufficiently different from the DAC, again making me think the amp is more versatile than the DAC has led people to believe.

 

You gave me a dislike for stating that I think "show" implies more than one product? And that, based on previous events, I fear people will travel there expecting more than just the Jotu on display?

Classy.