SCHIIT JOTUNHEIM WORLD PREMIERE: Schiit Show 2 - August 27, 2016 So Cal

I think a bigger problem in all of this, that I think a few of us have failed to realize (or maybe we just don't want to mention it?) is that...

If Schiit was serious about an all-in-one amp/DAC device, why not just move to a different chassis form factor?

Granted, costs will go up, but that was precisely what happened when Schiit introduced the Yggdrasil, and the accompanying Ragnarok: they introduced new chassis and new form factors. And those are considered "serious", so why isn't the Jotunheim a "serious" product?

From there, it is quite clear to see that the release of the Jotunheim in a familiar form factor (cut costs) is most likely to test waters and see:

1) If there are more Jotunheim sold with DAC units, then it's clear that's what the market want, and Schiit may be forced to think about a statement amp/DAC product.
2) If there are more Jotunheim sold with just the amp section, or with the phono stage, then it's clear that the market doesn't want an amp/DAC unit, and Schiit will be able to confirm once and for all that the amp/DAC is not a vaiable route. But they'll keep the Jotunheim around and give people the option either way.

There is a just a tiny issue that I see: the DAC module that's included in the Jotunheim is, from impressions (I still need to hear mine, which is coming today, hurray!!), clearly not "serious" enough for people to be convinced. Having a gimped DAC module in a device where you're testing waters is probably not the best way to go about it, me thinks. The reason why other companies succeed in the amp/DAC space is because they actually are serious about the DAC, and the coherence of the unit as a whole. Slapping an "okay" DAC on to an awesome amp unit isn't the way to do it, but... what do I know? I still need to hear the Jotunheim today...

So, just in my honest opinions, I think Schiit should very very seriously consider stuffing a multibit DAC module into the Jotunheim at some point in the future...

(but maybe all of that is just me being an asshole and trying so desperately to ask Schiit to do a multibit all-in-one)

 

I think you'll see this. You just won't see it this year.

One thing that's for sure: you will NEVER have an option to upgrade to multibit in any other combined amp/DAC (at sane pricing levels.) Nor will you EVER have any option to upgrade to ANYTHING in any other combined DAC/amp (at sane pricing levels.) That's one of the points of Jotunheim.

And, to be clear, this chassis is exactly the same size Valhalla, Lyr, Bifrost, etc. (6 x 9"). It's just shorter (2" vs 2.25"). And I wouldn't want to go to a larger chassis on a product intended primarily for the desktop.

 

And, I guess I should add...a chip output with insane levels of built-in current-limiting for protection is vastly different than Jotunheim's discrete, non-current-limited output.

I understand wanting to run speakers. But let's do it with a speaker amp.

 

It is also a way for us to move outside our current market. It's important to get outside of the echo chamber. Not everyone wants or needs a multibit DAC. Hell, not everyone wants or needs 24/192, even. For many potential customers, a one-and-done purchase is all they need to know. We've just sneakily included an insane amp section and made it future-proof.

And...hell, a hardware-balanced dual 4490 is what some manufacturers call "end game." Seriously.

Aaaaand...this is a hardware-balanced, passively filtered, fully discrete output stage DAC that's quiet enough to be used as "just a DAC" and with tons of power to drive headphones.

 

I'd say the Lyr is a better candidate for a card slot than Asgard, because Lyr can run tubes, which gives it a feature the Jotunheim doesn't already have.

As for the module slot on the Jotunheim, I think it's cool but for now the bigger news is the new topology. If you're ever able to fit a Multibit module into that slot, that would be really big news. Similarly if you thought of something new to add that greatly expanded the functionality of the device, also big news.

I like the idea of a backup DAC that sticks with the amp, especially since it's hardware balanced. But to me that's a very secondary feature, I would have bought the amp even if the module weren't an option, and there's also a reason I ordered a Modi Multibit with the Jotunheim, to compare the performance of that against the Joti's internal DAC.

Here's a question though, would it be possible to build a larger statement amp using this new topology that has more internal room for a larger add on slot? Could that give you the space to add a Modi Multibit sized add on DAC? Or am I way off target?

 

Thanks, Jason!

This is basically all the confirmation I needed.

I think I understand the philosophy behind Jotunheim, and that's why I purchased one. The versatility is definitely a huge draw.

I simply think the lukewarm impressions are a bit undeserving given that people only had the phono stage and the DAC section to listen to. I trust what Marv said... that perhaps the amp section is better than it's being received, so it's only appropriate to pair it with something it deserves.

 

One thing is obvious to me: Schiit makes DIY-ing for the sole purpose of saving $$ very difficult.
Can't wait to get some trusted ears with R-2R on this. (another project flushed down from my junk pile)

 

Hmmm... Is the spec wrong on the website re: Bifrost... it says 9 x 6.75 x 2.25 ???

 

Everything we make in that size is 9" x 6."

 

Can you just build a Ragnarok with a hole in it big enough for a Gungnir?

 

Ok cool, I was going by that, thought the Joti was shallower also. Thanks!

 

That's what I keep thinking, but as I said, I don't know what the future holds. A balanced tube Jotunheim is outside the realm of reality (in that size chassis), but a single-ended, high-power tube hybrid with a card slot is conceivable.

 

Yesh, sir. My bad. Poor attempt at provoking Schiit into admitting a multibit DAC module is in the work for Jotunheim, but at least he played along and gave me what I needed.

Seriously, yeah, it could be that I'm overestimating the average consumer. Most folks probably won't be able to tell the difference between different DACs...



^ ahem...

But hey, I'm a crazy mofo. I want impossible shit. Just like the Jotunheim... like somehow, Jason made an amp in this form factor that can play along with big boys in bigger chassis, and it measures better than almost everything else in the 2nd gen line-up. Whether that's an audible improvement or not, I still gotta hear, but it's quite an engineering feat to accomplish alright.

Now... why isn't anyone praising him for that??

 

Just FYI, Violectric have a similar add-on card system for their HPA-v280 (and probably other amps).

Edit: albeit, MUCH more expensive

 

Yep, while time constraints are the biggest factor for me, Schiit products are a real number two when it comes to my DIY efforts. In fact, I have put my speaker amp build on indefinite hold while waiting to see what Schiit brings to the table later this year.

 

The Joti as a preamp: Using the SE in/out is it then balanced internally (basically the cable is the only thing un-balanced), or does it use half the circuit?

Anything else interesting as a preamp, mixing BAL in, SE out... etc. etc?