Schiit Lyr+ impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by jnak00, Sep 5, 2022.

  1. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    This is Schiit’s katest amp, a follow up to the Lyr 3 but without the optional DAC or phono cards. It has a few new tricks though, like being able to run in solid state or tube mode, a remote control, and a relay stepped volume control.

    I bought this to simplify my setup, which was a Jotunheim 2 and SW51+ handling amp duties, and a Saga S as preamp. This thing replaced them all. I use a Bifrost 2 and Mani OG for sources. Cans are Atrium and Aeolus.

    Let’s get the first negative out of the way. I found out that the tube, if installed, is always on. Even in solid state mode. I was running it in solid state mode and noticed the tube was on. Checking the manual confirmed the tube is always on. This seems like a huge miss to me. Why market an amp that can do both solid state and tube modes, but handicap it by always having the tube on? If the tube is burning, I might as well just run it in tube mode. You can remove the tube completely to go fully solid state, but that’s not real practical either, if you plan to switch back and forth a lot.

    Switching modes, either from the remote or the button on the amp, takes over 20 seconds. The sound will click off, and after that time period it will reengage. Switching gain also results in sound cutting out, although only for a few seconds. It’s a bit jarring if you are used to instant switching.

    Volume control, even in high gain, is a little off compared to something like a Jotunheim or Asgard. I go up to about 11 o’clock on high gain to get a normal listening volume. On Jot I usually ran about 8:30. But there is plenty of pot left so not a big deal, just a different.

    As for sound, it’s a bit early yet, but so far I’m digging it. It is clear and spacious. With Jotunheim, the sound had a bit of that “wall of sound” effect. Not so with this amp - each part of the music sits in its own space. Staging, both width and depth, is greatly improved over the Jot and a bit better than SW51. The bass is glorious and probably the highlight of the show. It hits hard and has such beautiful texture. You can hear the slight variations in sound as a bass string is plucked and decays. The amp tilts warm but the treble has plenty of energy and sparkle, without being sibilant or annoying.

    Solid state mode is actually quite good. It is similar to tube mode, with a smidge less magic. If @schiit completely removed the tube section this would make a killer Asgard+. Although I suspect the fancy volume system and remote control would also have to be cut to hit the price point.

    AE0CC803-C458-49E6-8CA0-F53774F035DB.jpeg
     
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  2. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    Glad to hear this little beast is holding it's own...I listened very briefly at the Texas meet and thought it was promising with HD600. I love the ideas behind the flexibility and the form factor. I look forward to reading more impressions and hearing it again myself with some different tubes.

    I asked Jason why he put so much effort into customizing this particular amp and he said, "because this is what I wanted on MY desk"!
     
  3. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    You said it was replacing a Saga S, how is Lyr+ as a preamp?
     
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  4. pure5152

    pure5152 Friend

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    Thanks for the comparison impressions with the jot 2 and sw51+, that helps contextualize the performance a lot and it's really great to hear the soundstage is a lot more expansive than the jot 2 and even the sw51+. If you can, how would you say the dynamics (micro/macro) and plankton compare to those amps and other amps you may have heard?
     
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  5. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    Honestly the speaker use on my system is about 5-10% of overall time, so Saga S was just overkill. Lyr+ works fine. I think it's not as transparent as the Saga but I don't mind the sound of the Lyr. My speaker system (Aegir to PSB Image B5s) needed a bit of oomph in bass so Lyr works rather well.

    I need more head time to fully process those. I'll update later once I've developed my opinions.
     
  6. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    This came up on Head-Fi in discussion. I think this is likely a safety feature, if nothing else. Protection against failures that might happen if you switch over to a cold tube that suddenly starts conducting. Might not be an issue in a pure tube amp, but could be a problem when you have MOSFETs in parallel. Also, a relay that could turn the heater on and off would also need to be pretty hefty to handle the initial inrush current; inrush that would normally be limited by the transformer energizing, or a DC regulator coming up slowly.

    So yeah, I think best practice is to pull the tube if you are in SS mode.
     
  7. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    So far (6 days in) I would say the microdetail and microdynamics is quite good, exceeding my expectations really. Like @jnak00 says, the stage/placement (which I believe relies on good micro's) is very good for a SS amp. Macro, though I'm not sure I'm the best judge of this, is good but not great given this amp's overall character, "smooth" (sort of the opposite of Jot).

    When I switch from Starlett to this amp with a good HP (e.g. Atrium or Utopia) I'm struck not by what's missing but by how the technicalities are not that far behind.
     
  8. futbutts

    futbutts Friend

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    Have had mine for about a week now and am really enjoying it. I think it's a worthwhile upgrade from the Jot 2 which by comparison feels warmer/murkier. Lyr+ SS is more incisive and detailed to my ear, with sweeter mids. And to my surprise I find I don't really miss the tube with it (though I ordered with one as well). The tube kind of opens it up and smooths it out a bit but at the expense of some extra slam, though this tube isn't burnt-in at all so that could always change. Both modes have a greater sense of clarity than either the Jot 2 or Lyr 3, and the Lyr 3 always sounded boring to me with my Bifrost, where that's not a problem with the L+.

    My only real grievance so far is the pot, from which audio kinda comes and goes and pops a little when the volume's being adjusted. Not ideal. Not a deal-breaker either... and actually the area where I usually sit volume-wise (about 12 o'clock on this) seems to be improving in that regard so maybe something's getting worked in. And changing the volume with the remote and seeing the pot spin on its own is old-school 2001 kinda fun (and there's no popping/drop-out then, funny enough)
     
  9. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    To address a few things:

    1. Tube always on? Yes. The Coherence topology means the tube is always connected to a solid state device directly (DC all the way thru, no interstage coupling caps, no feedback caps, no sneaky caps at all). This means that we could only turn off the heater. This is not ideal. HV supply on and heater off can result in cathode stripping (albeit usually at much higher voltages, but still, why take the chance?) So the tube always stays on. It's a single tube. And if you aren't going to use it, you have the tube cover.

    2. Delays in changing modes. Yes. Every operational point is monitored and nothing is connected until all is well, including DC levels. This may take some time. It's better than blowing things up, I think you'll agree.

    3. Relay ladder differences. Yes. If you crank the volume control too fast, yes, you can go faster than the ladder, so it has to catch up. It won't hurt anything, the sound will just drop out as this happens. Relay ladders don't "run in." You're just getting used to it. Just like you'll get used to an actual honest volume control--you have to turn it up farther than typical because it's still -40dB at noon. Most volume pots are -10 t0 -20dB. Relays give you completely linearity and perfect control at all points on the knob. They just work a bit differently.

    Hope this helps!
     
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    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
  10. Beefy

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    *thumbs up*

    Just curious if you are willing to share any details on the architecture of the relay attenuator.... Ladder, series, or shunt? Latching or non-latching relays?
     
  11. futbutts

    futbutts Friend

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    FWIW, the audio drop-outs happen even on the most incremental turns of the pot, i.e. from one volume 'notch' to another.
     
  12. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    Does it seem to mute, then change the volume, then un-mute?
     
  13. futbutts

    futbutts Friend

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    Basically. Audio cuts out, returns at new (lower/higher) volume.

    It actually seems to happen each time at one specific spot in the pot at right about 12 o'clock (which happens to be where my listening usually happens).
     
  14. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    Could be a mute. Could be related to the MSB switching; that would involve every relay switching at the same time. And if the relays are non latching they'll all potentially disconnect at the same time.

    Either way, this is not unusual for a relay control. Generally, a small price to pay for the perfect channel matching and improved transparency.
     
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  15. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    Mine also does this at about 12:00. The dropout very brief and in my opinion not a big deal compared to the benefits of the relay control.
     
  16. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    I really like this amp, very balanced, neutral good detail and slam. I prefer the tube rather the SS , its more spacious, both have good tone. I wish I had my old Lyr 3 to compare it with. If i remember ( take with very big grain of salt) I think the Lyr 3 had more bass slam, less delicacy . Will write more have only listined for an hour
    Now that I read the manual no problem operating the amp.
    best,
    Josh
     
  17. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    This is a very good amp, combines delicacy, good detail with excellent tonal balance, bass is quick, top end is not harsh. I think I am going to get one of these.
     

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