Schiit Mjolnir 1

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Azimuth, Aug 8, 2021.

  1. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I did some comparison listening between the Mjolnir1, Super7, and Stratus. I'll be abbreviating these MJ1, S7, and Stratus is special, no abbreviation.

    TLDR;
    I liked all three amps, they are interesting and enjoyable. I didn't find the MJ1 sterile, cool, or shouty which are my big concerns with SS amps.

    Tone
    : Stratus > S7 > MJ1 (exception, "less accurate" tone helps HD 800 become fun with non classical. Slam is probably a factor too)
    Clarity: Stratus > MJ1/S7
    Slam: MJ1 > S7 >= Stratus
    Air/Separation/Layering/Presence: Stratus > MJ1 > S7 (I realize these aren't the same thing but I tend to listen for them together and this was easier than listing each separately).
    Vocals: Stratus > MJ1/S7

    That summary looks like I liked the S7 more than the MJ1 but that is not the case, they were close and I ended up feeling like the MJ1 fills gaps in my lineup better than the S7.

    Chain
    Roon/Qobuz/Redbook -> Pi2AES -> SFD-MK II SE+ -> Freya S (passive mode)

    Auteur
    • Stratus and S7 wake these up nicely, the Auteur can be boring
    • Stratus clear winner overall, especially air, separation, presence
    • S7 a touch more bass and slam
    • Female vocals more elevated and better on the Stratus
    • MJ1 kinda meh. Tone is a little off but not terrible. My brain adjusted with more time and liked a bit better but not an ideal match for the Auteurs
    HE 6se
    • While the Stratus wins in air and separation, my modded 6se is already superb in that department (due to RD's skills), and I didn't necessarily enjoy this as much with the Stratus compared to the others. This was music dependent though, see last bullet point where the S7 fell behind.
    • The touch of bass and slam is sometimes nicer on the S7
    • MJ1 definitely best slam, livened these up
    • Female vocals more elevated on Stratus
    • MJ1 vs Stratus, Stratus has better tone and clarity but 6se sounds great on both
    • Classical, Stratus much better
    • S7 tended to be a wall of sound in comparison to the other two, nuance and layering gets lost with some music
    HD 800
    • Both the MJ1 and S7 add some thickness or something to the tone, more so than the Stratus
    • Stratus wins on clarity, separation, and detail. Also the tone is more ... right? I'm terrible at audio terms
    • Really surprised at how much I like these on the MJ1, I'm enjoying non-classical. That is so rare for me with 800's. I can say the same for the S7 but MJ1 wins here.
    • Classical is no contest, Stratus trounces the other two. Tonal accuracy much better, air and staging better, presence is so much better. This combo is why I've re-fallen in love with classical music.
    • The last point makes me suspect the MJ1 and S7 have some errors of commission but that's speculation. I don't have my ears sufficiently trained to be sure one way or the other.
    Clears
    (Holy crap this is taking forever, details are gonna be more sparse from here on out)
    • Picking up some harshness on the MJ1, not sure where. I initially liked the pairing, the slam is nice and tone is fine (Stratus still wins on tone). With more listening I liked them less.
    • S7 is OK, not noticeably great but not bad either.
    • With Stratus these are a bit smooth in a good way, not hiding over details or anything. Removes a bit of harshness and they sound really nice. The Clears are fantastic with the Stratus.

    Atticus
    • Stratus adds some smoothness again (interesting, I normally don't notice that)
    • Sounds good on all amps, their characteristics I mentioned with other headphones still apply. Atticus's are forgiving, they usually sound good and some amps make them sound fantastic. Of course they are fantastic with the Stratus
    • Female vocals are a bit recessed on the MJ1 and S7

    Final Thoughts

    A couple of my picky "neutral" headphones (Autuer, Clear) aren't great with the MJ1 but I still really like the amp and put up a WTB ad. I see what RD means about "artificial quality" but I would have commented on something related to tone if I hadn't read his review first. This wasn't enough to bother me but I could hear it with comparison listening. It's got a great balance of slam while still being a pleasant listen for many headphones.

    I was pleasantly surprised about the 800's and I could use another good ortho amp so I'm not always burning expensive 2a3 tubes.

    I also agree the MJ1 is much better than the Jot2, which I also liked. I didn't like it enough to purchase but I understand the hype. Orthos in particular left me wanting with the Jot2 while being great with the MJ1.
     
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  2. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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  3. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    It must be coincidence, but RD's comment to me became true. Lol.

    "buy an MJ1 asap before people read this and the prices go up."

    After some *hesitation* (will talk about this in seconds), I posted WTB almost asap and a nearly minty Mjo1 showed up for an incredible price -- I'm observing people this week buying it a lot more expensive (still a great value).

    Anyway, I got my Mjo1 yesterday and it immediately destroyed all the productive plans AND one full night of sleeping. Oh well.

    Let me talk a little bit about my pre-purchase decision process. Why did I hesitate? Do I unbelieve testimonials in this thread? Nope. Not at all.

    It's rather because of a set of my educated guesses combined with some relevant experience.
    • I was not a big fan of Rag 1. From several AB opportunities (2ch loudspeakers configuration), I could clearly confirm myself liking Rag 2 or dual Aegirs over R1.
    • I don't think Schiit is a deteriorating or status-quo company. At the time when I heard Lyr 3, I was thrilled by their accomplishments and evolution. It was my best Schiit amp over anything else in production that time (including Jot 1, Mjo 2, Rag 1). Thus, favorable comments toward Mjo 1 -- feels like a legacy from the past -- made me confused at the beginning.
    • There's always preferential discrepancy. In particular, I've seen my taste departed from SBAF majority/seniority in a number of recent cases. I thought my doubt could be explained by this.
    Unfortunately (to my wallet) the way people convinced me was too powerful to ignore. But I couldn't eliminate my own concerns, either. Then desire to try out myself kicked in. I couldn't resist temptation in the end.

    Instead of taking favorable assessments as are, I decided to set a minimal expectation for the money I'd pay: (1) Mjo1 may not sound too horrible. (2) Mjo1 may sound reasonably different from Jot2.

    (Aside: #2 because I prefer diversity all the time.. and initially planned to buy a decent tube amp for that reason)

    Now I'm glad to report those two goals were super easily achieved in less than 5 minutes since they arrived.

    I'd save my specific evaluation or assessment for later reviews, but here are several rough sneak peaks.
    • Jot2 vs Mjo1 did not seem as one-sided as claimed by some. There was no simple supremacy to me between the two. I will collect more thoughts later. TBH they sounded way more different from each other than I assumed (despite they both were developed in answering similar questions).
    • It runs quite hot even with its larger chassis. Not surprising for voltage requirements of circlotron tho.
    • With non-trivial costs and tradeoffs (over modern high-performing competitors), this amp showed me the highest contrast ratio, extreme transparency (of course perceptual one I meant), and overly holographic presentation. I was almost overwhelmed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  4. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I do not doubt this one bit. Just remember, you have a Mjolnir that has been slightly modded with some different caps that apparently warms up the sound some over a stock one.
     
  5. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Great point. I heard it from Keith before but completely forgot since then. No wonder I didn't hear harshness as much.
     
  6. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    After giving both amps two days of thorough comparative listening. I somehow collected early thoughts regarding how to answer the following question:

    “Is Mjolnir 1 better than Jotunheim 2 in every possible way?”

    Testing Chain
    • Soekris DAC2541 (black filter; 88.2/96khz upsampled usb in, se/bal outs)
    • Schiit Jotunheim 2 (bal in bal out), Mjolnir 1 (se in bal out)
    • ETA Genesis Graphene (v1.1 stock).

    Disclaimers
    • I know it’s still too early to make bold statements. 90% likely (or even more so) I didn’t escape from the honeymoon period yet. Thus, while I tried best in de-biasing myself, please feel free to take my words with a grain of salt.
    • My Mjo 1 was purchased from @Ksorota, and he clarified it was not exactly a stock. According to him, its internal capacitors were replaced with Silmic II. So, it’s possible my unit is not sonically representative enough for stock Mjo 1s.

    Mjolnir 1 Highlights

    Hesitating a bit, I decided to use value-neutral headings as most findings seem rather a double-edged sword.
    • Mjo 1 seems more sensitive to headphones choice. I found Gen-G got along with this amp pretty magically. I also hooked up with HD650, LCD-X, Clear Mg.. but none was as convincing as Gen-G. All my assertions below are based on Gen-G pairing.
    • With the right headphones, Mjo 1 is doubtlessly the most engaging SS amp I’ve ever tried out. I found really many elements combinedly made this amp a super engager. Let’s start from the most immediate one. In nearly all the tracks, Mjo 1’s macrodynamics sounded a little exaggerated. Loud parts sound louder than Jotunheim 2 even in 1-2db lower volume on Mjo 1. This makes everything rendered by Mjo 1 more vivid, more dynamic, and more impressive. I thought punchy sounding was less important to me. What an idiot I was.
    • And because of this trait, Mjo 1 is very good at revealing small details and nuance between mid-high level signals. Mjo 1 serves for me as a sonic magnifier to recover dynamically compressed tracks. Not that magical with already well-recorded tracks tho.
    • One minor but persistent weakness of Gen-G to me was lacking definition in sub-40hz bass. Mjo 1 did NOT eliminate this problem, but I felt like a much better bass experience with Mjo 1. Mjo 1 added some additional nuance in bass presentation, which I recognized as a very overwhelming gain.
    • Another Gen-G’s shortcoming to me was (relatively) closed-in feeling, which greatly reduced with Mjo 1. Now I don’t think Gen-G is seriously inferior to Focal open-backs in this aspect. Mjo 1’s tonality is not bright, but a bit tipped up on top ends. This made Gen-G open up better.
    • Mjo 1’s headstage is phenomenal. Conservatively speaking, I like Mjo 1’s headstage as much as Blackwidow’s. I still can’t believe this amp does NOT make use of the output transformer. And this is really surprising for Schiit amps as I’ve never experienced this much holographic virtual stages with any of Schiit headamps. From memory, I believe the BW reproduced a slightly deeper stage, but Mjo 1 is more spacious and wide. Maybe overly so. Gen-G seemed to benefit from Mjo 1 very much again.
    • I’ll be surprised if Mjo1 measures any better than Jot 2. It ADDS some msg into the mix in audible ways, which from my experience is often associated with decent levels of H2 and H3.

    Jotunheim 2 Highlights

    Jot 2’s points are sorta mirror-symmetry to Mjo 1. To me, Mjo 1 seems to minimize omission while taking risk of commission. Jot 2’s approach is kinda the opposite. To me, both tastefully done. And I have to confess I don’t think either omission or commission “sin”. My audiophilism starts from the belief that sound reproduction needs not to be hyper accurate or life-like as long as I don’t bother. Keeping this in mind, let me elaborate where Jot 2 still spanks Mjo 1.
    • By comparison, Jot 2 gives me more solidly consistent experience across headphones I own (see my signature for the specific list). Downside is it drives Gen-G only decently, to the extent that I’m now willing to hear Gen-G exclusively with Mjo 1.
    • Jot 2’s background is a bit blacker. Mjo 1’s great dynamics come with a little higher black level. I won’t say Mjo 1’s background is gray. But I do think quiet parts sound quieter on Jot 2. Mjo 1’s background color is more discernable to my ears (particularly in digitally created tracks with intentional mutes in the middle), too. I believe there’s an unavoidable tradeoff.
    • More fundamentally speaking, Jot 2 went for lower energy and less engagement. Schiit seemed to make this amp also satisfy ‘sit back and relax’ requirements. And probably because of this, Jot 2 easily edged out Mjo 1 in delicacy, low-level separation, and low-level microdynamics. In many tracks, Jot 2 sounds more elegant and polished which I’d associate with pseudo-luxury experience.
    • For these reasons, I still recommend Jot 2 more comfortably to random requests even if we take current price status (both 300-400 usd used) into consideration. But don’t get me wrong, if I SHOULD keep only one amp at most, I’d put Jot 2 on sale.

    So, Which One Is Better?

    All things considered, the short answer to my initial question must be “it depends.” But that’s not a sufficient summary of my findings. To me, Mjolnir 1 did many things not necessarily right but extremely engaging with numerous irreplaceable merits. Put it differently, I am 99% sure if I spend a lot of cash I will be able to end up with something that perfectly replaces Jot 2 with. Confidence would drop drastically for Mjo 1 because of its unusual (for 2021 standards) badass approaches.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
  7. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    Your comment on the BW having slightly deeper stage and MJ1 being more wide is SO spot on. I have both here side by side and this is exactly it. There are more differences as the BW adds more low end bloom and color and the transients are a bit softer, like a rubber coated hammer, but the width and depth is right on the money.

    It was this kind of relaxed experience that actually turned me off of the Jot2. It was not because it was relaxed, it was in the presentation. It was like a colored relaxation, not like Cavalli type relaxed sound. And I still did not like when complicated passages seemed to tense up, whereas MJ1 just moves on through like you noted about the microdynamics.

    This is nothing against your comments, just a point of preference. I will say that MJ1is still very revealing with the source and headphone. Synergy a little more important as Thor's hammer is not forgiving.

    Glad you got to try it out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
  8. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    @Vtory while the Mj1 automatically convert’s SE to BAL, I still recommend doing more listening with BAL in for proper comparisons.

    To my ears the Jot 2 was more dynamically compressed in that I felt everything had extra slam applied whether it was warranted or not, whereas Mj1 has more macro dynamics because it allows quieter passages to be more quiet so the swing to loud is more noticeable. This is with the stock Mj1. To me the Jot 2 was a jackhammer all the time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
  9. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Good point. I will try bal in tonight and follow up.
     
  10. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Wonder how MJ1 compares to MJ2/LISST.
     
  11. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Part 2 - Follow-up analysis

    Motivation

    In the comparative review I posted yesterday, I argued Mjo 1 sounded louder in quiet parts of track. While I don’t think my statements were dishonest, I wanted to verify if my description was correct and accurate.

    So… I did a little more investigation about Mjo 1 vs Jot 2. This time around, my analysis focused on low level signals.

    Method

    Here are brief descriptions about how this analysis was conducted to control some potential biases:
    • I mixed two signals (both low crest-factor songs) together with different gains. One song (say, A) applied with obvious attenuation (-30 decibel) while the other (B)’s amplitude remained identical (0 decibel).
    • The test signal was played at attenuation levels ranging from -35 to -45. Note that -38 decibel attenuation is what I typically use for most (dynamically compressed) tracks.
    • Evaluation mainly done by observing if I could discern A’s loudest parts from B, and from which attenuation level I started to fail to hear A. I also tested myself how A’s average-loud parts sounded to me.
    Gear and Chain-wise, both amps were fed with balanced outs from DAC 2541. I’m still unsure about audible differences between unbal and bal ins on Mjo 1. But this at least looks better in terms of experiment fairness. And of course, both amps were level matched at 300hz via Minidsp EARS.

    Results and Thoughts

    My findings summarized below.
    • A sounded almost identically loud from both amps. My description in the original review was partly incorrect. Will update statements later.
    • Mjo 1 enabled me to better discern even with more severe attenuations.
    • When I could hear A in both amps, Jot 2 better articulated it in a music-like way. Mjo 1 seems to mask A with B a little harder.
    • Interestingly I could enjoy A better with Jot 2 overall, but A’s lowest bits feel nearly muted. Mjo 1 protected them better, but A did sound more like a faint signal.
    • Findings above from Gen-G. With Clear Mg, results were a little more favorable toward Jot 2 in every aspect.
    Additional thoughts & Takeaways
    • Perceived loudness of my ears seem to be affected by many psychoacoustic cues.
    • “Loud” parts may also play an important role. At least I'm not immune to relativity tricks.
    • Often how small signals are “presented” can matter to me more than how loud they actually sound.

    Some replies below.

    I mostly agree with you for those points. I'm surprised we heard similar things in spite of different verdicts in the end. haha. It's interesting to see I didn't like Massdrop- or Monoprice- versions Cavalli sounding much.. but I should try out LAuX before arguing more strongly. Unfortunately I didn't have solid listening with Cavalli OOPs to date. Shame on me..

    Now I see (at least 30-40%?) what you said. I'd like to express Mjo 1 is 'exaggerated' rather than Jot 2 being compressed tho. Dynamic expression of Jot 2 sounded a little more controlled to me and more consistent with all the other SS amps I liked. Maybe some discrepancy from amp-source synergy?

    I believe someone else will answer much better. To me tubed (not LISSTed) Mjo 2 and Mjo 1 were not that different in their core skill sets (not surprising). But I suffer from a little more noise issues with Mjo 2 with efficient transducers. Also strengths I found in Mjo 2 (dynamic, punchy, and assertive sounding) also found in Mjo 1 in a little more controlled and refined way. I can also recall Mjo 2 sounded more normal. Mjo 1 feels like it had a stronger ego.
     
  12. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    You say "controlled," I say "strained" or "congested,", Merrick says "dynamically compressed." We are all talking about the same thing. I would never say an amp exaggerates anything. It can only try to mimic what is fed on the input.

    When you listen at low levels and everything comes through, then it is compressed in a way. The dynamics are gone. This is why most amps have a low gain mode, because high gain is most always going to be the best. At low levels, low gain will still allow for dynamics, and high gain with the volume down is more flat. You can hear the effect of this even on the Vali 2+. I will say that it is one of the drawbacks of the MJ1 not to have a gain switch, but if I really want to listen at low volume there are other amps I have that do this better, like the Torpedo T1.

    Even the BW is not that stellar at low volume and the dynamics really open up as to turn the volume. That amp in particular is really a different animal once the volume is turned up. Jot2 always gave me the same, just louder - to me it was the first amp that did not change personalities when you turned the volume, which some may love. However, because of this "control" I thought this is also it's biggest drawback. Op amp chip amps with high negative feedback do this too, but they also get harsh as to turn the volume - double drawback.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  13. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    My preferred method of listening to the Mj1 is to turn the volume to max and use some kind of attenuation to control the volume from there.
     
  14. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    A bit confused - is this a class A amp or does it drift into A/B?
     
  15. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Short answer is AB.

    But you should check out the longer answer -- Hint: "So Is It Class A" section in this article: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...robable-start-up.701900/page-73#post-10566213

    I'm personally under the impression that we should NOT care A vs AB vs whatever classes when it comes to non-Lin topologies. Instead we better focus on more specific concerns such as crossover distortion or transconductance droop.
     
  16. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    Well that's exactly it though - class A doesn't have to concern itself with those. Does it? Lemme go read what Jason wrote...
     
  17. Decomo

    Decomo Almost "Made"

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    Can anyone help me understand how Mj1 can be used as speaker amp for high efficiency speakers?
    I have MJ1 and would love to try it as speaker amp if it is not too difficult or serious modification is required.
    Thank you.
     
  18. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    It is likely best to use the 3-pin XLR outputs on the front, but you can use the 4-pin as well. Either way, XLR is just just like any 3-pin XLR, 1-ground, 2-hot, 3-negative. Just use pin 2 for + and pin 3 for - to connect to speakers.
     
  19. Decomo

    Decomo Almost "Made"

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    Thank you very much. I just tried and it works. At 10 o'clock position on volume produce decent output level on my 97db at 8ohm speakers.

    Does anyone know what is the output of the amp at 8 ohm? My guess is that 3~5w at 8 ohm load?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  20. JonCharles

    JonCharles Friend

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    Had planned to get a Jotunheim 2, but I feel like I owe it to myself to try one of these instead. Probably works great with my HD650, but am I pushing my luck with my PMx2? Should be similar power requirements as PM-1/2 (32ohm, 102dB in 1mW). As long as I get usable volume pot usage, I'd like to give this a try.
     

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