Schiit Vali 2+ Review and Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by GiantHeadphoneSquid, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. Jay

    Jay Facebook Friend

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    It probably depends on the tube. My JAN Philips was super microphonic. It wasn't noticeable with open back headphones, but it was with closed back. Some tubes are quiet. Some aren't. I don't think the solid state portion of the amp is any noisier than others, though.
     
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  2. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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    Testing the Vali 2+ out as a preamp. The headphone out sounds quite a bit clearer than the preamp out - I'm not just imaging this, am I?
     
  3. Jay

    Jay Facebook Friend

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    I seem to have past the time allowed to edit this post, so I have to reply to myself.

    I did some more rolling over the weekend. After listening to the 6N1P-EV for a long session, I really like it, but I has some serious energy. It's like the dude bro who does creatine for breakfast and asks if you even lift, bro.

    I decided to roll in a well-burned in 1978 Sylvania JAN 6DJ8, which had been in my Woo 3 for a couple of years. I was really bad about logging hours in the past, so it could have anywhere between 500-1500 hours on it. No way to tell. This tube sounds slightly different than the 1975 Sylvania JAN 6DJ8, maybe because it was more burned in or there are manufacturing variations. Anyway, the 1978 tube is smoother overall. The treble is a little more rolled off, despite being a little spitty at times. Bass is a little looser, but the mids have more liquid to them. All in all, a nice little tube. Of all the tubes I've tried so far, this makes the Vali 2+ sound the most like a tube amp.

    The 6N1P-EV also has typical tube sound characteristics, but it can get up front and personal, whereas the 1978 6DJ8 is a little more relaxed and less roided out. It's more of a coffee shop compared to it's PED gym rat comrade.
     
  4. Jay

    Jay Facebook Friend

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    Does anyone know if pin 9 in the tube socket is left un-wired (which is sorta common these days) or wired to ground? I'm trying to determine if tubes with the center shield vs. no center shield will have any effect, but it all depends if pin 9 is wired to ground.
     
  5. That St Kilda Guy

    That St Kilda Guy Acquaintance

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    Can I please ask if you had concerns over the higher draw of the CV-181Z being 0.9A (900mA) long term?
    I ask as I have a Shuguang inbound.
     
  6. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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  7. That St Kilda Guy

    That St Kilda Guy Acquaintance

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  8. Jay

    Jay Facebook Friend

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    My Vali 2+ developed a little problem. The volume pot makes a scratchy noise. Before you say dirty pot, it doesn't always make the noise, but it has gotten worse the last week. If I change tubes, especially ones with different mu amplification factors, the position on the dial where the scratch changes. Also, the scratch completely goes away on high gain.

    Any ideas what it could be? I contacted Schiit, but since it's a long holiday weekend, I don't expect to hear back until at least Tuesday.
     
  9. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    Sometimes a scratchy pot is the amp passing DC. I don't think the Vali 2+ has a DC servo as I think it is AC coupled. It would not hurt to check the DC output as you turn the pot.
     
  10. Jay

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    Thanks for the reply and idea. How do I check that? I have a multimeter but don't know where to jab it.
     
  11. Qildail

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    Caveat: I am a tube-noob -- I've been a solid-state boy for quite a long time. The Vali 2+ is the first thing I've ever had with tubes in audioland. Signal chain for all comparisons was Qobuz streaming (via Roon) -> Cambridge CXN v2 (acting as the DAC) -> Headphone Amp(s). Other than the native "upsampling" from the CXN, no DSP was applied. I allowed about 15 minutes of warm-up on all components.

    My expectations were tempered a bit by the continued tube rolling thread, but I was still a bit disappointed running the Sennheiser 650s. The Vali didn't exactly struggle, but it felt like it was trying to roll uphill. Compared to the Asgard 3, bass had much less slam, and the high-mids and treble was just tamped down (veiled?) a bit too much for my liking. Part of this may be the CXN, as those Wolfson chips have been accused of being "warm" in some reviews. However, detail was still there in the Vali, unlike the Magni Heresy which to me burns high details at the altar of op-amps.

    Next up was my Sennheiser HD280 (2016 tuning), which is a bit brighter than the original version (rest in peace), but it's still a studio monitor headphone (i.e. mostly flat and fairly safe). Here the Vali didn't have to work so hard, and it showed. This is where I got the most "tube sound" from in my listening. Everything was smoothed over, but it was generally smoothed over evenly. You knew the Vali was there, but nothing really stood out, either good or bad.

    Lastly, I grabbed the pair of Philips SHP9500s I've had since a shopping holiday. I love the comfort, but there's no way around the fact that they're damn bright, low-impedance, and sensitive (like my kids?!); and I had never found a setup I could live with them in -- until now. The Vali was able to tame these monsters. High treble notes didn't just softly hang around; they camped out on my couch overnight because they had no place to crash. Somewhat paradoxically, mid-bass was more defined here than with the Asgard 3 (which just overpowers the SHPs on the whole I'm guessing). The obvious second and third harmonics made up for the lack of slam. I was really enjoying this combination; so much so I lost track of about a half-hour just picking random tracks in Roon.

    Final verdict: I may be a bit dramatic, but the Vali 2+ straight up saved a pair of headphones for me. For that reason alone it will stay on the desk. At some point I might move the Modi 3+ from its desk to see just how much of this chain is the CXN's doing. If the Lyr 3 was (is?) some workable lovechild of the Asgard 3 and the Vali 2+, that might be awfully close to my current ideal. But for now I'm content with the Vali being the endpoint for a couple of highly sensitive headphones I have and letting the Asgard 3 do the heavy lifting for the 650s.
     
  12. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    While I haven't gotten all of my thoughts together, I got enough of my thoughts together. I am also having a beer while typing this post for IEM users.

    For starters, @M3NTAL should be very happy with the Vali 2+ with BA IEMs like Campfire Audio, provided if you only run them on low gain and get rid of the stock tube. No, the Vali 2+ with BA IEMs isn't super silent (a small noise can be detected and sometimes Vali 2+ will pick up electronic interface if your cell phone is near the amp). No, you don't get the full volume pot with BA IEMs like my CA Ara or Gaudio Nair, but at times I was getting from 6:30 to 12 on the dial (which is plenty). Output Z is just under 1 ohm, which I didn't have issues with the Ara. Maybe some with the OG Andro might want to use their IEMatch so they can run their Output Z to their reference. Speaking of IEMatch, yes, the IEMatch can get rid even more noise and provide even a bigger volume pot range. However, plugging direct with the Gaudio Nair and the CA Ara sounds super damn good as-is and I'm not compelled enough to bring out the IEMatch. I'll do say this, the sound with BA IEMs might sound like you are sitting on row 3 or row 4 on the stage (with something that sounds like minor compression (hard to tell), and little noise if no music is playing. With that being said, I recommend when turning on the Vali 2+ to not plug any BA IEMs for at least a minute. When the Vali 2+ is full activated, it makes a loud pop noise within the IEM.

    With DD IEMs, I mostly run them in high gain. @purr1n is correct that there's a difference on low gain and high gain. High gain to me gives me extra space with DD IEMs like my Drop + JVC HA-FDX1 and Moondrop Starfield, and the possible edgy didn't effect me that much on those IEMs. Low gain is more controlled, which honestly some people would prefer that more than high gain. I really enjoyed my DD IEMs on this sucker.

    To get to the point, Vali 2+ is super f'ing musical. While the IEMagni is more useful for IEM usage, the IEMagni doesn't even come close to the musicality and engagement of the Vali 2+. This isn't like the regular Vali 2 that the sound is super laid back. Vali 2+ while more upfront than the Vali 2, it doesn't sound edgy. I think IEMagni is closer to the stage than the Vali 2+, which to me the Vali 2+ has more breathing room. I am also not getting the infamous Schiit "wall of sound" effect that much at all, which is a major plus. I love the IEMagni, since it was designed for IEM users like me. But even when you love something, you have to admit that it has been beat. To me, Vali 2+ more/less rapes the f**k out the IEMagni. Regular Magni 3+ depending on usage will be preferred (pure SS design), but if more virgins heard the Vali 2+ without the stock tube and willing to give it a chance, they will most likely say ".........f**k."

    But as with all things, this is a $150.00 tube amp. The stock tube sucks, use it as a butt plug. Vali 2+ doesn't win on resolution and bottom/top extension when comparing to a SW51+ (I know all about this, I used to have a SW51+ and that is a better amp than Vali 2+, but it better be due to the price difference). On my unit the volume amp has resistance at around 12 o'clock, and have the basic switches on the back that could break one day, and the unit is the small Schiit size. Even with its limitations, who gives a f**k? Most users will really say wow on this amp and understood that it has limitations, but don't care about it. I bet with the right tube it would be a great modern Grado headphone amp (the new SR225x I bet would work great here, shit, even the RS2e with the TTVJ Flats).

    My unit came with the Sylvania 6DJ8, which is much better than the stock tube. A Friend gave me a free OTK 6N1P-EV, which is my preferred tube ATM (very engaging, doesn't have best treble extension, but who cares). I am not into tube rolling, so I most likely use the 6N1P and call it a day. I miss that touch of tube bloom and what a tube can provide to the sound at times to make it more musical. ASR can suck my hairy balls.

    I was super curious on the Vali 2+, and some Friends gave their recommendation with IEM usage on this unit (@purr1n also referenced this on his previous posts). Man, I glad I put the money down and got one. Unless you need ultra black background with no noise and negative gain of the IEMagni for IEMs, I would recommend Vali 2+ more over the IEMagni for IEM usage....provided if you get rid of the stock tube.
     
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  13. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    @YMO - you reminded me to pull out my in-ears, as I've been neglecting them with laziness. I was reading through the thread again and getting excited about the Vali 2+, but I was listening the Gamma2->IEMagni-> Andromeda Gold and kind of reminded myself that this is pretty solid as-is. I think I would probably enjoy it though :) I'll keep my eye out for one I can afford.
     
  14. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    Tempted by this to get back in the tube game. Any suggestions on an upgrade tube that keeps the tube magic but isn't too tube gooey, that's cheap and that's readily available? I looked for several of the ones recommended here but they're either expensive and/or only available internationally (I'm impatient).
     
  15. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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    I don't think the Vali 2+ is particularly gooey no matter which tube you use.
     
  16. Jay

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    If you like a bit rounded and sweet, go Voskhod rocket 6N1P-EV.
    If you like more space and air, go GE 6CG7 with internal shield.

    Either one can be shipped to your door for under $15 and are easily found on eBay.
     
  17. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    Just got this -- good call?

    Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 / 6FQ7 EH
     
  18. Jay

    Jay Facebook Friend

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    I've never tried it, so I can't confirm myself. It seems hit or miss, so maybe it's an issue of manufacturing variance. Some people say it's bright and thin. Some people really like it and find it smooth and musical. If you already have it, can't hurt to try it and report back here.
     
  19. Jay

    Jay Facebook Friend

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    I was moving some components around the other day, and I happened to actually read the label on the Vali 2+ power brick. For the tube heater section, it said 6 v 500 mA. My question is how is the Vali 2+ rated to power a 600 mA heater draw? What am I not understanding here?
     
  20. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    It is 90% of what the original RCA 6CG7 is. Missing some bottom end bloom, but still a robust sound. It is is nicer in the 2+ than in the 2 - sounds cleaner and more airy. Sounded more dull in the 2.
     

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