Schiit Yggdrasil Stereophile Review + Measurements

Epic math winzorz!

But as @Grahad2 explains, we don't have perfect DACs so we are constrained by the precision spec.

 

I remember Mike posting on one of the other forums that he could improve it by improving the power supply etc, using acid batteries or something like that, but he never did say it would be improved by making changes to the digital section, at least not currently.

The DAVE for me was a revelation. Its interior work is quite frankly, very unimpressive, switching power supply, cheap 100 buck FGPA chip, but god does it sound good. They finally used the more expensive chips (which cost like 300 bucks, the next level ones start at 1k to 21k a pop) in the Blu MK2.

Right now, i can't help but feel as if Chord's approach of using increasingly higher taps (1mil including the Blu mk2) is the answer. I know what i'm hearing, now i'm just waiting for the measurements from a third party. If its bad, it means the dave is merely falsifying information that somehow makes it sound good.

If its as good as rob claims (Beating the vivaldi), well, its as close to we'll get to god's answer on how to make dacs.

 

Wow! This topic exploded in a very short time!

I would like to interject a few observations.

1. The power on time doesn't appear to be mentioned in the test setup conditions. My own measurements confirm a demonstrable improvement from 3 to 408 hrs of power on time.

2. I obtained a significantly better jitter measurement than JA's.

3. The interpretive remarks at the end of Sterophile's measurement section don't appear to reconcile well with the measurements I see published.

Here are some screenshots for everyone's convenience. My set of measurements at 3 and 408 hrs can be found in the source measurement section:
http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-yggdrasil-measurements.413/

Stereophiles Jitter (24 bit, spdif):


My dScope Jitter (24 bit, spdif) at 3 hrs power on time:


My dScope Jitter (24 bit, spdif) at 408 hrs power on time:


Warning, Personal Opinion Ahead:

According to JA, measurements of the Auralic Vega are at the top of the game. In that review the Auralic was given the usual flowery prose indicating a high level of audio nirvana achieved. Having the Yggdrasil, GuMB and Vega connected to the three inputs of a ZDSE my own observations find me listening with HD800 to the three in this order:
1. GuMB (slightly more euphonic than Yggdrasil, which is my preference)
2. Yggdrasil (slightly more detailed, more neutral than GuMB, which is useful for critiquing and mix decisions)
3. Vega (technicalities are excellent but just doesn't present as natural or engaging as the GuMB and Yggdrasil)

 

Hmm, and how much would DAVE have cost if it had been using four chipsets 300 bucks each and serious LPS? I remember all Chord's products use a standard multiplier...

 

Im not sure now though. but im going to assume (possibly incorrectly) that the far more expensive (15k discounted) AP-SYS2722 used by JA is more accurate.

The other possibility is that stereophile is currently part of a plan by the audio industry to sabotage schiit in order to have people spend stupid amounts of money on their stuff again.

 

I dont want to know. My wish is that some chinese dude, reverse engineers the code in the FGPA chip, buy the 1k - 21k chips and make a 7 million (Theoretical limit of the chips) dac and sell them for 3k - 27k.

 

Incorrect assumption for this measurement. This particular measurement is averaged a number of times (by both systems) to improve the apparent resolution of the measurement. The dScope analog input is only 4 to 7 dB higher in residual THD+N performance of the AP, BEFORE any averaging is performed. Specs below taken from respective vendors publications.

AP 2722 analog input residual:
Residual THD+N (22 kHz BW)
–112 dB + 1.0 µV @ 1 kHz

Prism Sound dScope analog input residual:
Residual THD+N:
(fs=96kHz, 1kHz, 22Hz..22kHz filters, unweighted, RMS): <–105dB (0.00056%)+1.5µV, typical –108dB (0.00040%)+1.3µV

Performance of any particular measurement isn't automatically a linear relationship with price. I am a fan of the AP equipment but the dScope is a better all around device for my purposes and sufficiently capable for jitter measurements.

 

Funny thing is JA's editorial in that issue or the previous one was about how ridiculous prices have become.

 

Or because it is the audience that the advertisers want to target.

Back in the day when I was suffering from pre-internet audiophilia, Stereophile's publication date would have been one of my monthly red-letter days.

 

In their defense on that one point, Herb Reichert reviews more budget-friendly gear (hence his review in the last year of both Ragnarok and Yggdrasil). Before him, they also featured reviews on budget equipment, many by Stephen Meijas before he went to Audioquest. Their review of the Peachtree Audio Nova125 ($1,499) was influential years ago when I was on a limited budget and wanted an all-in-one DAC/integrated. (Live and learn—look what I can get for the same price with Modibit, Saga, and Vidar...) They've also attempted to appeal to "millenials" by hiring Jana Dagdagan to write from their (and the female) perspective.

This doesn't mean I don't think their measurement synopsis re:, and Facebook campaign against, the Yggdrasil are disingenuous. Just that they've made a modicum of effort to address the stuffiness everyone knows they exude.

 

They've made their bed and now they have to lie in it. They have played along with the big-name manufacturers that populate the traditional high-end dealer networks. As print dries up, especially niche print, they had the choice to take a big chance on reinvention or lean into the obvious source of money. They can say all they want that they are independent and there is no quid pro quo going on but it is clear that they risk upsetting the apple cart if they are too frank. The only times I've seen them give a review worse than "okay but there are other similar options for the money" is with smaller manufacturers, either the new jacks or old companies trying to claw their way back in. The ads themselves are not proof of anything but their reviews and press coverage are timid at best but more honestly indulgent.
As someone mentioned they have taken half-measures with Stephen Mejias and now Herb Reichert, and frankly Stephen was the one writer I could count on relating to even a little bit (in budget if not in personal life). But they won't truly lean into it.

Regarding the technical stuff, of course it would be great if Analog devices designed a successor that was 24-bits or whatever high number. But 21 bits is the most anyone can do for now and certainly more than enough to sound good.
@Rotijon, I will look at measurements of DAVE when they are available but I don't believe any audio electronics exist that have noise -180dB. That's like the noise floor of the universe. That dude has made some very silly claims in the past and you would do well to treat them as marketing.

 

Four pages in... and this probably got dealt with on page one, but having looked at the review for a second time, I'm thinking that that anyone (and there must be many) who just read the two pages of objective review, especially the last paragraph, might well be clicking "Buy Now" on the Schiit site.

So, even if I am four pages late to the party, I'm wondering why JA should be undermining this in a way that seems almost personal. I've heard him (on video) talking convincingly about measurements revealing stuff that reviewers missed, sometimes even bad stuff. But this is not like that.

I'm also left with a bad-taste feeling that, if it was one of his favourite audio companies, he'd have picked up the phone and asked about the technology.

Perhaps not. I willingly disclose that, although, yes, I used to dream and slobber over the printed magazine, including the advertisements, I have not followed Stereophile online for quite a long time. In fact, the only member of that family that I consider to be completely in its right mind is our own, our very own (let's hear it for...) @Tyll Hertsens Inner Fidelity. Stereophile might come a distant second (for old time's sake) but some of the other stuff I treat like somewhere I might catch something very nasty.

...that last para might might be summed up as biases admitted, I suppose.

 

I used to be the target audience, but the target moved. Been getting Stereophile since 1978. This year I let my subscription expire. With Stephen Mejias leaving and Sam Tellig retiring I found myself just flipping through pages, skipping most of the reviews as the price for the products reviewed were several multiples of the price of my car and often had serious issues with the measurements. Interesting direction for Stereophile. I wish them luck.

 

I hope Mike Moffat and a Jason Stoddard publish a longer response to Stereophile's article and their subsequent Facebook posts. Some potential Yggdrasil buyers may find the article or these threads via Google searches and they may not understand the measurements or the variables in measuring DACs accurately. The Yggdrasil has set the benchmark for performance in its class of DACs and it is disappointing to see Sterophile fire shots without presenting Shiit's side.

 

I'm looking forward to the reply to this review in the "Manufacturer's Response" column.