Serious Bullshit

Discussion in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' started by Serious, Apr 18, 2018.

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  1. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    @Marvey I hate to keep this discussion going because it's going nowhere, but I do want to attempt to clear up some things where I wasn't clear enough. Feel free to move all of this BS into the sewer section where it belongs. I never said I didn't like what @La Cenric is trying to achieve here.

    There's a difference between slight variations of the same thing and comparing apples to oranges. If at the reference plane (12.4mm) you get a peak at 14kHz you need to insert it to 8.5mm to get the resonance above 20kHz.
    Achieving insertion depth to the reference plane is already difficult.

    You've been saying the same thing for 6 years now and I don't disagree. I'm not talking about peaks caused by the in-ear here that are obvious with music and never go away.
    What I'm talking about is peaks that you can hear with sine sweeps caused by ear canal interactions. Are you saying that you don't hear peaks with IEMs listening to sweeps? Heck, I bet you even hear sharp peaks listening to sweeps on an HD600. I know I do, in my case at 7,9 and 11kHz.

    I forgot to mention, but that obviously happens too. Volume gets smaller and you get less treble and more bass. In addition to the peak shifts.
    FWIW I do hear the peaks shift when inserting IEMs deeper. This is listening to sweeps, not listening to music, although I hear a massive 8kHz spike (sibilance) with a B2 with shallow insertion with music too, just like the measurements show. This does not mean I hear the 8kHz spike on the Andromeda that shows up in the measurements.

    That was my point. You don't hear the peaks at all with music because the brain filters it out. If the IEM peaks fall on the right frequency with the right magnitude your brain will also filter it out. That doesn't mean they're not there. What you're saying sounds like you don't believe that there's a 15db 3kHz resonance from our ear canals simply because we don't hear it listening to music.
    When I mean "my own measurements" I mean multiple different speakers in different rooms, or even under quasi-anechoic conditions, not just the Voxativs in my room. The measurements I posted were from Genelecs. Again, no peaks are heard with music, but at the DRP they're there. I don't know how you can deny this.
    I said "when listening to speakers you will also hear such a peak, especially in a very damped room", which I think is what you're talking about. I meant to say that you can measure such a peak and can also hear it with sine sweeps, but never with music. Sorry for the confusion. With sine sweeps the brain has no reference to filter out the peaks, so it can't. I do hear peaks listening to a sweep on a flat speaker outdoors that shift frequency depending on how I rotate my head. In a room this mostly goes away because of reflections, but I find that I can still hear it. No, I'm not talking about widebanders here. Yes, I confirmed this with multiple different speakers that have smooth FR. The peaks were always consistent.
     
  2. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Grab a f'ing book and learn to walk before running.

    EDIT: And no, I don't hear f'ing sharp peaks 10 dB style on my HD600s at 7,9 and 11kHz.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  3. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

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    I'm not very informed on this topic, but if a peak can't be heard when listening to music, if the brain filters it out, is it really there? Or more to the point, does it really matter?
    Idk about you but I don't go about listening to sine sweeps for fun.
     
  4. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    This has been going for a while. Last time it was f'ing phase distortion. Now it's peaks this, accuracy that, non-linearity here, pinna there.

    I would be fine with all of it if it went somewhere. Instead, kid goes back and thinks he "wins" arguments and shit. I had enough. It's been going for a while now with no f'ing end.
     
  5. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Alright. It's just freaking audio. Whatever.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  6. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    If a set of multiple peaks rises in the order of tens of dB, things will likely sound like shit. If things don't sound like shit then likely the measurements are faulty.

    If the brain filters all out and all things are nice then we have been all fooling ourselves.

    Get any f'ing speaker, dac, amp, headphone or whatever with +/- 15 dB of frequency response variance all over the place.

    It's OK, the brain filters it all out guys.

    I hate when someone goes out of his way to cover up that he does not know shit with walls of text, and attempts to turn the tables around. Specially when it goes for this long.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  7. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Sorry guys. I obviously got pretty worked up about it. Closing this.
     
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