Soekris DAC2541 Review And Measurements

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Great point (FWIW).. All I heard were cheaper or older ones (amethyst, musette, and hex). I must be disqualified to make any assertions on newer Metrum. lol.
     
  2. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Ethernet Nervosa

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    Nah, I'm sure you're as qualified as many mate; just called it out for context / the benefit of those without knowledge of Metrum's NOS history.
     
  3. Syzygy

    Syzygy Friend

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    I am using it to listen through passive nearfields. It does a fine job, but I'm also not trying to blast my ears off. The loudest I've gone is -10 and according to the docs it goes to +10.
     
  4. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    Thanks. I'm actually considering 2541 and dual Aegir combo, which was why I asked the question in the first place. It seems that a preamp isn't really needed.

    AFAIK Aegir outputs 20W in SE, or 80W in balanced mono operation. However, I read that in order to use a pair of Aegirs in balanced mono of 80W, they need to be plugged into a true balanced preamp such as their Freya. Apparently, merely having XLR outputs doesn't necessarily mean it could run monoblocks at 4 times the power of SE as they are supposed to. I wonder if the Soekris DAC2541 with its digital preamp is a true balanced preamp in the above sense and fits the bill.
     
  5. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    dac2541 has fully balanced outputs which produce 14.625 dBu at 0 dBFS. That is 4.174 Vrms.
    Aegir has a gain of 12.
    Input sensitivity is Output Vrms / gain.
    Vrms = Sqrt(P*R)
    Sqrt(80W * 8R) = 25.3 Vrms
    25.3 Vrms / 12 = 2.11 Vrms needed to drive Aegir to full output.
    So dac2541 has roughly 6 dB more output than needed to drive Aegir to full output.
     
  6. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    I might be a little lost here. But could you let me know why true balanced outs needed? My understanding is having positive and negative phases just suffices -- and that's where I am confused with the term 'true' balanced preamp. And aegir already has tons of gain so 0dbfs can easily exceed input sensitivity AFAIK.

    And just for your another data point. I shortly tried with freya-s and dual aegirs. But direct SE served better for the current configuration.

    Maybe you'd better state specific speakers and tonal preference in order to get less blanket-ish answers (I may not know enough but someone else can chime in).
     
  7. Justin S

    Justin S Friend

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    I have a 2541 arriving this week. I have dug into the manual and the threads (thanks for all the great reviews and information everyone). I am wondering if both the BAL and SE outputs can be used at the same time. I am planing to use this in my work setup which has balanced powered monitors and a separate SE head amp. It would be nice to not route things through another box.
     
  8. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    I am using both outs simultaneously. Not a single problem at all.
     
  9. Justin S

    Justin S Friend

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    Thanks, @Vtory . I will be tentatively replacing my ADI-2 with the 2541 and will do some comparisons in the coming weeks.
     
  10. Soups

    Soups Sadomasochistic cat

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    Below are my impressions from the 2541 loaner. Thanks again to Soekris and SBAF for the audition. Usual disclaimer: I'm in no way a proficient critical listener. Yet I very much appreciate the opportunity to hear something new and gain more experience.

    CHAIN

    My listening was done mostly with the Pi2AES (AES) > dac2541 (Green/Off Filters, Balanced) > Jot R > SR1A. Also less so with Jot 2 > HD600. My reference DAC is a Yggdrasil A2.

    BACKGROUND

    My interest in the dac2541 came from hearing the dac1321 loaner a few years ago. The 1321 was my first experience with anything Soekris, and I remember being quite impressed with its performance for the price. I even slightly preferred its tonality to the Gungnir Multibit A2 I owned back then, which came across a bit dry in comparison. Now the Gungnir Multibit held the upper hand in most other areas I cared about (dynamics, detail, seperation, balanced...) but at 3x the cost.

    FORM FACTOR

    I like the 2541's understated, function-first sort of design. I was initially a bit surprised to see how compact and desktop friendly this thing actually is - as it rested nicely on top of my Jotunheim (which is sligtly narrower).

    I'm sure Soekris could have shoved the impressive innards of this DAC into much larger, elaborate audio-jewelry casing and charged all of us idiots a bit more... but I'm thankful he didn't.

    SOUND

    TL;DR - Like some others, I heard the 2541 as being natural-neutral with great all-around dynamics.

    Natural seems to be the first point of emphasis, or why bother implementing with R-2R or any tech of that sort? I listened primarily to jazz with the 2541, and I'd give it a slight edge, compared to Yggdrasil, in sounding "natural" w/ those butterworth filters. One occasional complaint I have about the Yggdrasil is that sometimes it can sound so incisively... fake. I like incisive (see chain) but I also really appreciate the slight variety via the 2541's filter options.

    The 2541 sounds very neutral to me, because anything too bright with the SR1A is immediately intolerable, and anything too warm with the HD600 sounds boring. The Yggdrasil and the 2541 seem to share similar tonal qualities, but the Yggdrasil did sound a smidge brighter. Now I couldn't discern whether that was due to the 2541 being a bit more rounded off in the highs, or whether it was because the Yggdrasil conveyed a bit more detail/texture in the "air" treble region (as well as across the entire freq band). That said, I'm beginning to believe that once tonality is covered, a lot of extra detail doesn't do as much for musical enjoyment as DYNAMICS....

    What ultimately made the 2541 a real winner to me was how even upon initial power-up, it was easy for me to emotionally engage with the music. Maybe I was expecting good things - but I immediately got a good sense of swing from every track that had it, and I was just having fun listening. Yes, the bass slams more with the Yggdrasil, and it's easier to hear the fine grit of Dylan's vocals - but the music didn't suffer because sense of micro/macro dynamics are fantastic with the 2541. This DAC made it hard to concentrate on anything but the music, and this was as true from day 1 of the loaner to the last. And while the Yggdrasil isn't going anywhere, I was sad to see the 2541 go, and it is now on my short list for building a dedicated headphone rig around.

    MISC

    I spent all of 10 minutes with the XLR headphone out (HD600), and although it sounded NOT BAD - I will say that in comparison to my Jot 2, it sounded a tad brighter and not nearly as engaging. It actually seems like a good option if you're trying to get work done, while accepting the fact that you are not hearing the true potential of this DAC.
     
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  11. Ksorota

    Ksorota Friend

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    Soekris 2541 – The End all for now.

    Chain: Mac Mini M1 > Soekris 2541 (USB) > Mjolnir 1/2 (BAL) > Code Lex/Modded HD600

    Note: I found a nice sonic improvement using Pi2AES loaner and look forward to owning one in the near future.

    I have been going on a bit of a gear roller coaster lately, motivated by friends and reviews from other people. I ended up on the hunt for a Gungnir MB A1. Found a good deal on a A2 and added it to my system (GSX Mini – Code LEX) and was happy. Had a friend with a Qutest and decided to pit them against each other and in the short term the Qutest proved to be the winner with its enhanced detail across the spectrum and blacker background. Unfortunately I should have trusted my review more and fell out of “love” with the Qutest fairly quickly due to lack of “emotion”

    note, in my review I mentioned that the Gungnir MB had more of an emotional presentation compared to the detail forwardness of the Qutest.

    Back to looking for an A1 Gungnir MB I sold the Qutest and ran with a Modi 3 or a bit before finding a deal on a 2541 (thanks @innoculator) which took over everyday DAC duty and seemed to somewhat fill a roll of the middle ground between A2 Gungnir Multibit and Qutest. At this point I have compared the Gungnir MB A2 directly with the Qutest, sold off both and have since been using the 2541 exclusively.

    I then found a great deal on the Gungnir MB A2 and thought what the hell, time for another comparison. The comparison went on for about a week, where I found that the impressions didn’t change much of the Schiit Gungnir MB A2 and I still really liked the sound it produced. However, the 2541 was a bit of a step above in the areas that I cared about.

    Areas I care about – Natural/organic presentation, nuance, quiet background, flexibility, and quality sound. The Soekris 2541 has all of this in spades.

    As compared to the Schiit Gungnir MB A2, the 2541 is a bit less dynamic across the range, but makes up for that shortcoming by having more nuance to the frequency range. Bass has more texture and resolve, and treble is a bit smoother. Mids are about a wash on both DACs, equally conveying a pleasing yet neutral tone. Both DACs prove an enjoyable listen, but the Gungnir occasionally comes across as a little harsh or bright or more over emphasized in the treble. I am most impressed by the naturalness and tone of guitars with the 2541. I hear a very realistic presentation of that instrument in particular. The way the finger plucks hit and the chords sustain simply hold my attention more so than the other two upper level DACs I have recently had.

    Track Recommendations:
    Male Vocals -Guitar: Chris Jones – The Last Fallen Leaf – great tone
    Mle Vocals-Guitar Seu Jorge: Life on Mars – like sitting in front of him in an open room
    Female Vocals: Loreena McKennit: The Two Trees – embraced by a feeling of emotion – hair standing
    Percussion: Jose James, Hindi Zahra: Sword + Gun – intimate, nice layering presented
    Back to Highschool: Smahing Pumpkins: CYR album – How I remember the Pumpkins – just like this album really
    Back to Highschool: 311: Music. – Listen to all those new details in the music


    On the headout. I think that it does a respectable job overall. I would say it compares favorably against the magni 2/3, so again not terrible, but certainly not as finessed and exquisite as the DAC that it lives within.

    All written above is to say that I really like this DAC and it performs at a very high level. I am impressed by the level of balance that it produces while maintaining a very engaging tone and timbre. I do think that it has less impact than the Gungnir MB A2, but what it lacks in the macrodynamic it makes up for an even-handed level of dynamics across the range and more resolved low end... balance. The Qutest was alse balanced, but maybe to a fault and came across as too normalized (even if detailed) at times.

    More often than not while trying to compare DACs I forget to actually listen for comparison and just enjoy the music. More often than not this occurred on the Soekris than the Schiit and it was the one that kept me up longer in the evenings.

    I will be holding onto this DAC.

    Couple other thoughts I wrote down in my notes:
    Very cohesive presentation, nothing over emphasized or subdued
    Great soul to live music
    Amp section can distort at high volumes driving LEX
    Great pairing with WA7
    Tight Bass reproduction
     
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    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
  12. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    Thanks for you impressions @Ksorota. I am wondering, for the owners of this DAC, are there any custom filters? I seem to recall that they were available on the previous model.
     
  13. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Not as of today to my knowledge.
     
  14. Justin S

    Justin S Friend

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    @Vtory , I received my 2541 today - finally. While just a little rough out of the box, it is killing any hope of productivity this afternoon with ease - holy hell this thing is amazing. Compared to the RME ADI-2 I usually use in my suite, the 2541 is already clearly more engaging on monitors and headphones by orders of magnitude. I had planned to replace my BF2 in my home system (PI2AES, Heed, Harbeth, REL) with the 2541 once I put some hours on it - but we'll see, it might stay here.

    I read earlier in the thread that you have enjoyed up-sampling the source while using the black filter of the 2541. I had a Holo Spring a few years ago and I do feel that the 2541, with up-sampling, has some resemblance to the Spring (with the 2541 being more clear and having better bass control) - I am mostly going on memory and feeling with this comparison so I could be totally wrong.

    Are you up-sampling in ROON? I am currently playing around with upsampling HQ Player and it is really promising. The Sinc-M and Poly-Sinc-XTR-LP filters are pretty great with the 2541. Have you tried HQ Player with it?

    In any event, I am also going to jump on a Geshelli J2 when it is released at the end of the month. I will work on an RME, Soekris, J2, BF2 comparison then. Four DACs enter, two will leave. Spring cleaning.

    Today's listening: W10 ROON (with and without HQPLAYER)>USB>2541>MONITORS: Genelec 8020/7040 (treated room) and HEADPHONES: Modded Mapletree Audio Design EAR+ HD with HD650 KISS MOD
     
  15. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    No I was using foobar and upsampler plugin installed separately. HQ player would offer more solid choice as a proprietary program. I'm trying to avoid to use roon as much as possible lol.

    Glad you're enjoying the dac. That's truly one awesome piece. Maybe there still exists better dacs on the market, but none of them come without jaw dropping prices..
     
  16. lcmusiclover

    lcmusiclover Friend

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    Loaner impressions:

    I’m very impressed with the 2541. I was surprised how small it is.

    I compared it with my A2 Gungnir Multibit & TT2. Amps are DSHA-3F & Liquid Platinum. Cans are Utopia, HEKse, Auteur, Hedd. Chains are

    NUC PC ==> usb - SU-1 ==> coax - DACs ==> Hattor preamp ==> amps ==> cans
    NUC PC ==> usb - M Scaler ==> opt - DACs ==> Hattor preamp ==> amps ==> cans
    Cowon Plenue II ==> opt - M Scaler ...

    I realize it was a mistake to exclude my Oppo — would have provided a greater contrast.

    To me, 2541 & Gungnir Multibit were close to identical. Tonality was nearly indistinguishable. Imaging/stage exhibited bigger differences. But the differences seemed to vary by track— thus I cannot provide a definitive comparison.

    TT2 vs 2541 provides a bit more contrast. Note that I split the optical output of the M Scaler to feed both DACs with the same signal at the same sample rate. Didn’t seem fair to compare limited optical out to 2541 vs dual coax to the TT2.

    Between these DACs there are some tonality differences — a little more sub-bass from TT2, a bit more mid- & upper-bass from 2541, a bit more treble from TT2. Pretty small differences, clearly noticeable on some tracks from 3F/Utopia. Also, male vocals sounded richer from TT2.

    Beyond tonality, 2541 falls behind due to some combination of timbre & imaging which I can only describe as ‘less digital’, or even ‘less processed’. Maybe more ‘natural’, whatever that means. I would call it a subtle difference. When I did compare 2541 vs TT2/dual BNC, the difference was more noticeable.

    In summary, I found the 2541 to be the equal to my Gungnir Multibit — I would have no qualms swapping them in my system.

    I slightly prefer TT2’s tonality, others might disagree. And I hear a subtle qualitative difference between the two.

    But I could easily enjoy the 2541 in my system — between its size, performance and the inclusion of a head amp, great product, solid value.

    About the amp section: I listened to the XLR output briefly — not long enough to form much of an impression — it seemed competent. My system is set up to seamlessly compare DACs, but comparing amps isn’t as easy. Given my limited time with the unit, I chose to focus on the DAC.

    But I really appreciated the opportunity to try it out. After my adventure comparing Yggdrasil & Gungnir Multibit I guess I shouldn’t be surprised how close these three DACs sounded, especially 2541 & Gungnir Multibit. Perhaps a 2-channel system would reveal greater differences.

    In any case, thank you for including me in this tour.
     
  17. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    @lcmusiclover Very interesting thoughts! Thanks.

    Btw, can you perhaps post your thoughts on TT2 and M Scaler in a dedicate thread? There formed some distrust against Chord in this forum (myself included). Myself not a fan of Dave particularly price given, but TT2 came up later than Dave and might benefit from better tweaks. Also I am hugely curious about how it scales with M-Scaler.
     
  18. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Loaner Impressions

    Setup
    Roon->Pi2AES (RoPieee/Volumio) -> (AES Input) DAC 2541 / (I2S Input) Pavane / (Coax Input) RDAC -> Freya S -> Stratus / Black Widow

    I tried both SE and Balanced outs from the DAC 2541 and didn't hear any noticeable difference. Pavane was balanced out only. Most comparison listening was done after 3 days of warm up with the Stratus.

    Headphones: HD 800, Elex, Atticus

    Impressions
    Tonally I found the 2541 dry and I agree with the comparison to the A2 Gungnir Multibit, another DAC too dry for my taste. At times the 2541 was a bit fatiguing as well. I found most genres more full and lively from both the Pavane and RDAC. I prefer a more rich and smooth sound which also helps with the craptastic wall of sound in most modern mixing.

    On the other hand, I really liked the 2541 for classical, definitely better than the RDAC. I think the 2541 brought the instruments more forward which worked well. I also like the Pavane for classical but it was close, the 2541 is sharper which added liveliness, especially for piano. In a similar vein, I liked the 2541 for acoustic folk, definitely better than the RDAC with clarity, staging, and detail but still beaten by the Pavane.

    I could see myself using the 2541 for classical and the Pavane for everything else. My comments may sound like I didn't like the 2541 but that isn't accurate. In general I find DAC differences subtle and after warm up I did enjoy the 2541.

    Side Notes
    I am weak at describing why I like/dislike DACs. My ears may not be good enough to pick up the subtle nuances and/or I haven't trained myself to listen deeply enough for detailed impressions.

    When I had the 2541 volume set to +6 I heard a lot of distortion, resolved by turning it down. I was playing with the volume to try and level match against my other DACs. This unit probably has an issue. Being busy with work and brief time with the loaner prevented me from doing much experimentation. This could be something I did wrong, resolvable with an email to Soekris or simply a defect because shit happens. Either way, I didn't hold this against the DAC but the next person may want to email Soekris if you experience the same issue.

    Initially I thought I was hearing some grit or dirt in the sound. It's possible this was resolved with warm up or it could be the volume issue mentioned above.

    I really like the compact size, unusual for a DAC in this price range.
     
  19. soekris

    soekris MOT - Soekris Engineering

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    My DACs volume control can go up to +10 dB, adding digital gain to compensate weak recorded sources, not to add gain to digital sources with nominal signal. If the red clipping LED blinks, turn down the volume.
    Afaik, there is no issues with the loaner.
     
  20. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    In most cases you should not apply +6 (-1 could be mostly good for healthy headroom). DAC 2541 has generally a little less than 4Vrms in its bal outs at full scale (0dbfs). I roughly recall so with the loaner unit, and accurately confirmed with measurements for my unit. I believe Bob's measurement (for the loaner unit) also indicated 13.5 dbu for both channels XLR outs.
     

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