Sonic Frontiers SFD-1mk2 Vintage DAC for $750 That Stomps Most Modern DACs

I thought you said mutec beat e22 like a month ago? What changed?

 

Nothing. Lynx is cheaper, takes no room, and doesn't use USB. The gap closes further with the E22 in AES mode going directly into the DAC.

I eventually want to get a Mutec again to put after the Lynx.

EDIT: Ultimately landed on Lynx. They're great. Both the E22 and AES16e are outstanding devices.

 

I have owned this DAC almost 6 months now and needless to say that
this DAC is really good, compared to other stuff that i have heard. It even does some things better than Yggdrasil.

Anyway, it has few flaws:
1. No usb input - i used toslink cable before directly to PC, but quality was not good. Got Mutec 1.2 just now, this solves the problem, 1.3 seemed to expensive (2x price of DAC) for this DAC.
2. Does not play 24/96 files which i have lot of, so far i have not find any solution for that. I don't want to use bad quality downsampling that
computer does, so i only listen 16/44.1 files with this DAC and leave higher quality files for Yggdrasil.

 

Okie dokie. I'm ready to forward this one on. It's just a matter of getting to the post office. So most likely this weekend.

This evening's pic:



Drive by impressions only, with nothing further to come as this was really just a quick session to satisfy my morbid curiosity about a DAC that I remember reading about in the pages of Sterophile as a Class A component many moons ago:

It's possible that I missed something important as it wasn't an extended critical listening session. But I don't think so, and am satisfied that I got the idea. The first word that comes to mind is "pleasant". The SFD has a very pleasing timbre and a seductive smoothness which, for me, made female vocals its absolute sweet spot. Wind instruments like baritone sax did well too. I believe it did exceed the Gungnir Multibit in terms of spatial boundary width and height, but not necessarily in depth. And for these two reasons alone, I feel that with a lot of what resides in my music library I could actually prefer the SFD longer term to the Gungnir Multibit. However it simply comes up short in the detail resolution department, and it sounded soft. So acoustical pieces lacked necessary bite, drums lacked impact, some of the plankton nuance created by the Lynx with my Yggdrasil was much more difficult to detect, etc. Therefore, when all is said and done, I'd stick with my Yggdrasil (not pictured) as it's a better all around performer, despite some of the beauty, allure, and undeniable strengths of the SFD.

Quite honestly, then, I now also feel confident that I'm ready to make a generalization by extrapolation... I'm fairly certain at this point that once you reach the level of Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil, then a Pavane, a Spring, or whatever tomorrow's moderately more expensive flavor of the day turns out to be, there's just not enough incremental performance to justify moving up into those particular price points. Because in most ways these are effectively lateral moves. Unless, like I mentioned above, a particular musical style just really plays to a particular DAC's strengths and that's precisely what you're looking for. Otherwise, get your Gungnir Multibit or your Yggdrasil and stand pat. The next meaningful improvement in digital is 2-3x the price. With that said, most definitely do throw out your USB cables, and pick one of the non-USB alternatives ala Lynx or Rednet. But if you're not prepared to go much beyond Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil's pricepoint in the world of DACs, then instead, find a way to analog and just stop goofing around with DACs altogether. Stop worrying and don't get excited when the next great FPGA comes around. Because I'm very very very willing to bet that a Uturn or GEM Dandy or WhatHaveYou budget table (see that thread to get advice) is a bigger step up than all of them.

Oh, and on the way out, here is a quick rendition of what I heard in terms sound stage spatial boundaries (laterally as you sit facing the rig) through the Marten speakers. (I suppose the SFD-1 should have been pictured a bit more elliptical, but it was definitely swallowed by the Dacute). Take it for what it's worth...

 

Thanks to Hands’ generosity, I got to try out a Sonic Frontiers SFD-1 MKII DAC.

TL;DR: Made me reach for my wallet with the way it combined a relaxing, organic tone with enough detail and dynamics to keep me engaged.

Compared to my Gungnir Multibit, The SFD-1 felt more analog and less forward. In terms of staging and macrodynamics, I felt like SFD-1 and Gungnir Multibit traded blows. On some tracks the SFD-1 portrayed more depth, on others the Gungnir Multibit did better. They were close in this department. Both are probably limited in the staging department by downstream gear (Mjo2 even with WE396A’s isn’t a soundstage champ nor are my headphones).

I thought both were plenty detailed. For the photography enthusiasts older than 30 in the room, I’d liken the SFD-1 to Kodachrome 25 and the Gungnir Multibit to a good digital camera that’s been just barely oversharpened using a small radius unsharp mask. And honestly, it kind of depended on which I was more acclimated to. Acclimating to the Gungnir Multibit and then moving to the SFD-1 made the SFD-1 sound a tiny bit soft and overly polite. Acclimating to the SFD-1 and moving to the Gungnir Multibit made the Gungnir Multibit sound overly rowdy in the mids and upper midrange.

I think there’s a element of synergy at play here in my system. The Mjo2 is already not-laid-back in the areas where the Gungnir Multibit is—relative to the SFD-1—also not-laid-back, whereas the SFD-1 probably dances a bit better with the Mjo2.

The Gungnir Multibit generally sounded a bit cleaner in the bass, but I wouldn’t really want to say for sure without the benefit of 8” or larger bass drivers in a good room. In direct comparisons, the Gungnir Multibit feels brighter because of more aggressive, detailed, and forward sounding mids and upper midrange, but I don’t think it’s actually tonally any brighter, just more aggressive in a way that comes across as brighter. This makes for more exciting attack on the Gungnir Multibit, but on some songs (“Simple Song” by The Shins, “Trouble” by Ryan Adams) it’s too much.

I do think the SFD-1 needed warmup time. I kept it powered up the whole time I had it, and I think it didn’t sound its best until day 2 of being powered up (thats not an exact figure, just an order-of-magnitude idea of warmup time). I hope others who listen to this loaner unit will weigh in on this. I’m curious if it’s just me or if others also notice this.

I did zero tube rolling with this; just used the toobs that it shipped with.

The SFD-1 reminds me more of Adam’s vinyl rig than the Gungnir Multibit does. For me, my “gear barometer” basically has three settings: “meh/bleh”, “nice, but not for me or would be a sidegrade”, and “WANT. What gear would I sell in order to fund buying this?”. The SFD-1 is in the “how can I get one?” camp for me. Not that it would replace my Gungnir Multibit, but it would make a fantastic alternate flavor for long listening sessions.

One tiny vintage DAC caveat that’s probably worth mentioning, though I’m probably an edge case here. My transport is a Raspberry Pi with one of Michael’s prototype 503SPD2 boards spitting out AES and SPDIF signals. I feed SPDIF to my Gungnir Multibit and fed AES to the SFD-1. I’ve literally never had a song I couldn’t play on my Gungnir Multibit because of sample rate or bit depth limitations, but I had a few that Volumio (the music player software running on my Raspberry Pi) happily sent to the SPD-1 but the SFD-1 would not recognize because the sample rate was too high. I didn’t see this coming because I’ve never used a vintage DAC before. Because AFAIK Volumio doesn’t do downsampling, the workaround is to stream the song from Jriver to Volumio over DLNA and have Jriver downsample it to something the SFD-1 can handle (or just create a down sampled copy of the album to play directly from the Pi’s local storage). A minor inconvenience that effects only a small portion of my music library, but maybe worth mentioning here.

I think folks downstream of me on this loaner are in for a treat.

 

Exxxxcellent. I've already started saving my pennies.

 

What tubes did it ship with?

 

Initial impressions (may be refined as but this could probably be it). The SFD1 arrived in a huge box that didn't fit in my trunk...it's massive.



ERC-3 via AES > SFD > Torpedo3 > HD800
vs ERC-3 via AES > Yggdrasil > Torpedo3

Overall this is a great DAC for less than a Gungnir Multibit price (used). It's not as clear, clean, definitive sounding as the Yggdrasil and it lacks the schiit multii bit bass sound, but it does everything else right. The muddiness and softness would say that's my biggest gripe with the sf DAC as far as the sound is concerned.

I just want to write down a few notes about the DAC cause i am not an audiophile or anything and i wasn't there when the music was recorded:

• Needs at least a day warm up. This thing sounded terrible...cold Yggdrasil terrible when i first plugged it in.
• No USB. Doesn't matter much to me since i have a decent CDP with AES. Non standard optical. Pretty much you are either coax or AES.
• Not lacking for details, imaging, or separation. I'd have to split hairs to find a significant difference on headphones.
• Black background - after spending time with this i can now clearly hear the grayness in the Yggdrasil or maybe it's just brighter (like high gamma) than i thought.
• Presentation - not upfront as the Yggdrasil. I feel like i am a few rows back.
• Sounds very romantic, full and analog. I can listen to this thing all day. Yggdrasil sounds a lot more aggressive and dryer after switching back like a piece of studio equipment (it's that jfet output stage). At least the Yggdrasil's SS output stage somehow managed NOT to lose the spacial imaging, holographic presentation, and whatever analog goodness the DAC module has. I guess that's a feat in itself. My perfect DAC might be the Yggdrasil with the output stage from sfd.
• Quite warm sounding. Might be the SFD and T3 combination, im not using a particularly warm tube in the T3 either.
• I did not like this combination with HD650 or HD800S. Sounded great on HD800 with SD and cork.

 

Hi guys! Just freshly registered.

I'm in audiophilia craze for a year. After reading this thread I happily grabbed the first SFD-1 I found on classifieds, to replace my Audio-GD DAC-19 DI.

Just received it today and installed. It has Telefunken NOS tubes.

It sounds utterly unimpressive, inferior to DAC-19. It's bright, everything is more distant and it somehow lacks dynamics, making every song more boring. I hope it's due to lack of warm up.

Question: if warm-up time is 1 day, does it mean I have to keep it turned on continuously? That's crazy, how long will tubes last?

Will come with impressions after warm-up soon.

P.S. My setup: Audio-GD DI-2014 -> BJ Coax digital -> SFD-1 -> BJ LC-1 -> Apex Peak/Volcano -> TH-X00

 

Interesting. The sfd-1 mkii is not a bright DAC. In no way or form would I call it bright. Even on initial boot.

Have you got the 180 degree thing on by chance? If so switch it off.
If it is off, try switch it on anyway. Some sfd-1 were built with the polarity on backwards. :/
If your teles are legit... and this doesn't fix it. You might need to have it serviced by PCX. It's over 20 years old, plus the SE+ upgrades are well worth it.

 

I'd suggest you let it warm up for a few days, keeping it on continuously in the process. DACs very often need time to stabilize and it can have a major impact on their sound. And many people I know keep their gear on 24/7 so it's always at its peak. Good thing with the SFD-1 is that while it does use tubes, and they do have a lifespan, the tubes it uses (6922's or equivalent) are still plentiful vs. some much harder to find tubes. Of course some of the rarer varieties can be expensive, but there's a number of good choices out there that won't break the bank, and trying different tubes can help you dial-in what works best for your preferences and match best with the rest of your gear.

@thoth - Also as a new member it's really a good idea (actually required) to introduce yourself on the appropriate thread, so suggest you go there very soon - http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/new-members-introduce-yourself.17/

Cheers

 

In NYC there's also always the option of hijacking one of the Hansom Cabs from Central Park!

 

Thanks, I will introduce myself soon.

Regarding warm-up. Do I have to keep turned on just the DAC, the whole chain, or the whole chain playing music?

 

Just the DAC.
Regardless. No amount of warm up will fix it if yours is bright. Something else is not right.

I've had this DAC for about two years and I don't really agree about leaving it on continuously. The DAC was never designed this way. Sure it might need a few hours to sound it's best. But I don't believe it is like Yggdrasil which needs a week on before it sounds great..
This idea came out of the loaner program and I think it is just people adjusting to a new DAC. The DAC actually hits optimal operating temperature really fast according to PCX.
Just my 2 cents.

I have been running mine continuously and can't say the sound is better or worse than when I just gave it an hour or so.
OFC. IMO YMMV

Edit: it's not a fair comparison to the loaner which I believe is stock. My sfd-1 has been fully rebuilt basically. . Maybe the old caps take longer to stabilise on the loaner..

 

For interest sake.
This is the guts of my SFD-1 mkii SE+. I asked for the works from PCX. Also included is the cost of that upgrade on both my SFT-1 and SFD-1.

 

Update:
After one day of warm-up the sound didn't improve a bit. Changing polarity also didn't help. Tubes look by all accounts legit and almost new.

Did some A/B vs DAC-19:
- First, sound from DAC-19 is many times louder
- Second, it has more dynamics and more fluid tonal transitions. Sound from SFD-1 is very flat, like coming from poor digital interface, only worse. This somehow makes everything sound more distant and diffuse. I can't put my finger on brightness however. It's probably a consequence of less dynamics.

The last thing I could think of besides defective DAC:
Could this be due to single-ended inputs and outputs in my setup?