Sonnet Digital Audio's Morpheus Reviews

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by sahmen, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    This is great, these are your impressions and are valuable to this communtity regardless how others reviewed it. There are other folks out there with similar setups that would probably come to same conclusion, so you saved them from buying an uber expensive dac.
     
  2. Firegon

    Firegon New

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    We shall see what @ChaChaRealSmooth says, then we'll get a better picture.

    Sure, honesty is always the most important ( especially in our hobby with ... ekhm questionable neutrality of certain reviews ) and not everyone is bound to like things I consider good. Nothing wrong with that. Personally, I quite enjoy a good discussion with a healthy dose of disagreement, as long as it stays civil.

    But if this unit really isn't damaged and the layering and imaging really is as disappointing as You say ( which I don't have any reason to doubt ), then I really want to know why. Simply because I find that interesting and it might help in future system building struggles.
    There are some obvious blends that don't work well together like pairing bright headphones with bright amps ( unless migraines are what You seek ) or pairing tube'y magic with thick and lush sounding gear (although the latter seems to have more followers than the former). But I can't quite figure out what could possibly make Morpheus fail so miserably at layering and imaging.
     
  3. JK47

    JK47 Guest

     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    • Do you listen to speakers?
    • Did you listen to said DACs on your own systems and headphones?
    • Did you listen to same said DACs with consistent gear chain?
    • Did you listen to same said DACs with a predetermined list of familiar recordings which are yours down to the specific master?
    • What specific recordings do you use to assess layering and separation? For example, I use a specific set of LFF remasters: Scottish Chamber Orchestra Mozart Requiem, a few recordings with Stanley Black conducing the London Symphony Orchestra.
    • Did you listen to these said DACs individually or back to back in the same session?
    • Can you provide photo evidence of a stack of these DACs together, or at least a two or three at the same time to demonstrate that you have listened at least a subset of them back-to-back with a consistent audio chain?
    I've seen major inconsistencies because a friend's JRMC player had EQ on by accident, someone using a known bad master of a recording, someone listening to unfamiliar music, a tube amp with one tube broken, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  5. DigitalMaven

    DigitalMaven Acquaintance

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    I listened to this live from Netherlands over the internet where they compared the Morpheus, Metrum acoustics and weiss dac from switzerland. The weiss dac demolished the pavane and morpheus. Once you get above $2000 for any dac your open to any and all criticism. There are just too many good $5000 dollar dacs that do better than the morpheus. Better to buy a used dac that meets your sound quality citeria than buying a brand new one that doesn't. Go to the first page of this thread under my april 5th post. With a good set of phones you can tell the differences.
     
  6. bilboda

    bilboda Florida boomer

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    You can't tell anything with music captured from a video cam mic and played back from you tube thru your own dac. I just don't know what you are thinking. Weird science.
     
  7. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Given that a Weiss dac is going to be at least €7,000, why are we discussing it given the cost of the Morpheus?
     
  8. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    So I'm next after @ChaChaRealSmooth but I'd like to make a request - does anyone in southern CA have a Holo Spring or Holo May DAC I can A/B against this (since both are "well known" and different enough NOS DACs) for the duration of the loaner? I've heard a few different NOS DACs before but given that this individual loaner DAC may be potentially questionable, impressions may be more worthwhile if I can compare to another NOS DAC to use as a sanity check if at all possible.

    FWIW, I'm also going to compare this to a Yggdrasil A2 (the version with USB 5) and a Soekris 1421. Amps will be EC Af and DNA Stellaris. Tube rolling or lack of will depend on time and listening impressions I get with the DAC.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Not sure if Holo DACs would be a good reference for "NOS" because they have quite a different sound from the Sonnet / Metrum stuff. The Holo stuff is more modern sounding tonally and transient wise. The Sonnet / Metrum stuff is more vintagey R2R with a denser tone. The only thing they share is NOS soundstage, and even at that they are slightly different.

    If you use speakers and listen to orchestral as if you were in Disney Concert Hall, NOS will fail you badly. With headphones it could go either way depending upon what you are looking for. If you like locally flushed out spheres of sound with each instrument, then NOS could be your ticket. If you are one of those dudes who likes a deeply placed headstage wtih strong center, then your ticket, NOS is not.

    It's important to understand that NOS is niche. It's like tubes vs solid state. Actually even more different than that (I'm not considering warmpoo tube amps, which have their own following). Some may immediately gravitate toward it, others like @JK47 may recoil in horror. The taste can of course be acquired. It's not like @Hands or others here haven't said that most would be better off with OS DACs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  10. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    @purr1n - I was initially going to ask for a Metrum DAC as a baseline reference b/c it seems like a more obvious choice - if anything is broken, it should be more obvious. However, upon 2nd thought - I'm not familiar enough with Metrum products and Cees / Metrum house sound (if any) to know if the product is 1) legitimately "broken" vs "just the way it sounds", 2) difference in sound is due to it being a different product, or 3) perceived flaws are just due to me not liking NOS (and not knowing this yet).

    However, because Morpheus and Metrum vs Holo Spring should be significantly different based on previous impressions I've seen here and elsewhere and b/c the only common factor is NOS, I figure that would let me quickly rule out all 3 of the above by doing an A/B comparison.
    Excessive explaining: [[ 1) If Holo is better due to the NOS part of sound in Morpheus "sounding broken" - maybe it's time to have the unit looked at. 2) If Holo is somehow way better but only due to personal preference differences (modern vs denser sound, etc.) but underlying NOS traits are all there and close enough, then it's just a different product and personal preference issue. 3) If I strongly dislike both due to NOS regardless of their traits, then it's just me disliking NOS sound. ]]
     
  11. JK47

    JK47 Guest

    ... Or anger, and driven at a high rate of speed up Beach blvd, weaving in and out of traffic on a Harley with the DAC bungeed to my chest (If I went down, I was gonna make sure so did the DAC). When I buzzed in at @ChaChaRealSmooth 's place I had already taken the bungee off and he was like WTF, you rode here with the DAC on your lap.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2020
  12. Firegon

    Firegon New

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    @purr1n
    Now that's some interrogation. Not sure if I'm even supposed to answer, but just for the sake of consistency I'll try.

    All but one of the aformentioned were used in my own headphone chain ( SuSy Dynahi -> Shipibo.audio Chacruna ( modded HE-6 ) - so no speakers. The only exception is the R2R 7HE, as back in the day I used to have a different system ( LFF Code 6 + Audio-GD HE-9 and Stax 007mk1 with KGSS ). But I've had Yggdrasil on both the old and the new setup, so there at least some way to compare the two. I've owned the DACs I've mentioned in the comparison ( a few months each ), except the Dave, which I've had only for a week. That being said I was able to compare it directly to Yggdrasil 2 . I've owned quite a few more, but those are the ones worth mentioning, the rest isn't really anywhere near the price point.

    Sure, it's not a back to back comparison, but living with a DAC for a few months and listening for a few hundred hours gives a fairly decent picture of what it can and can't do. Sadly, no photos of multiple DACs - never had the need to take them, as I'm neither a reviewer nor an influential figure.

    Mostly testing things on the same few albums - Bernstein, NY, Mahler Symphony no3 ; Kleiber, Vienna, Beethoven Symphonies No 5 and 7 ; Karajan, Berlin, Holst: The Planets and a bunch of Zimermans recordings of Chopin, Rachmaninoff and Liszt are a few worth mentioning. It's mostly classical stuff, although it depends on the mood.

    Morpheus impressed me the most, because of this clean, precise, tidy way it presents sound. If I was to describe it in one word, I'd say: order. Everything was very well defined, everything had its place even though the sound itself was rather thick and the soundstage itself was NOS size. So when I read the exact opposite, it got me confused.

    I don't have any problems understanding how someone may not like the NOS sound. To be honest I don't love it myself. Nor do I have any issues understanding how one may not enjoy particular bass, mids, treble or soundstage, because a) we all like different things and b) those are heavily system and synergy dependant.
    But when it comes to aspects like resolution or imaging of a DAC - I've always thought those are absolute. Meaning if DAC A does it better than DAC B, it should outperform B on every system. But apparently that's not the case. So I'm curious what affects it - that's why I asked.

    @JK47
    Apologies, didn't mean to sound like an as* in my last post ( like i am demanding an answer directly from You, which wasn't at all what I intended ) It was just a failed attemp to reword the previous "i am curious". I meant it as a general statement.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I think it's just that @JK47 doesn't like warm or thick DACs and listens on speakers.

    NOS presentation for headphones can be interesting with a tendency to send things wide. On speakers, if you are used to OS DACs, NOS is a closed in mess with everything blended depth-wise in on a flat plate, with the only variances really on wide the stage is in relation to speakers, and if the flat plate is located on the plane of the speakers or slightly in front. The Morpheus' sound-plane was in front and the width of my speakers, with unstable and fuzzy placement of instruments. (One does not buy NOS for soundstage). It's likely that @JK47 meant something completely different when he mentioned separation and layering aspects.

    Or maybe the major difference is that you listen to headphones, and planars at that, that don't render depth or create any sense of soundstage (headstage <> soundstage). Or maybe the Morpheus was broken or needed a firmware upgrade. It's possible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I was thinking about this a bit harder. Here's the deal with NOS. There's the expectation that most people, despite the proliferation of MQA and Hires (which doesn't seem to make any difference 90% of the time on Qobuz), will still be listening to 16/44. So the least common denominator is that we will need to filter that nasty 44.1kHz pulse. The problem now goes back to the 1980s:
    1. Analog filters. There's a lot of talk about digital filters, but analog filters are still necessary.
    2. Do we want to build a filter? If we let things be, what's the possibility of someone's amplifier oscillating and/or blowing up a tweeter? Does the manufacturer want to take on that kind of liability?
    3. 44.1kHz is awfully close to 20kHz. Sure 24,100 seems like a large number, but that's just 8 white keys away on the piano.
    4. Do we want a wimpy filter that will barely do any attenuation of the 44.1kHz pulse? Maybe not a good idea because a wimpy filter is just that: wimpy and useless.
    5. So then we build a steep filter. Sounds like a PIA. Steeper filters require more parts, introduce more phase shifts, more ringing, etc. all this will affect a portion of the bandpass region (this is why OS became the defacto way to do things - we upsample and push out the sampling rate super high so an easier filter can be used.)
    6. Then there's different ways. We can be nuts and do a passive filter (expensive parts, another stage maybe). The most common method is with opamps and active filters (in the feedback loop).
    7. Or maybe we could line level transformers, but I'm not sure this would work for 44.1kHz, because any good line level transformer will still be -1db attenuation at 40-50kHz.
    This would be an interesting experiment. Use software upsampling to feed an NOS DAC to determine if it's the NOS architecture or lack of upsampling that results in poopy speaker imaging.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  15. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    I definitely agree with @purr1n on the headphones vs speakers topic. Just like OS might be too much (intense / sharpened) with headphones, NOS might be too much (relaxed / soft) with speakers.

    I am more of a NOS guy the last few years but, similarly like @Hands, do not mind subtle (2x) upsampling/oversampling. It helps me to achieve a "best of both worlds" listening experience. Would like to see manufacturers offering this as an option, rather than trying to take it to the extreme (16x or even more) with oversampling.
     
  16. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    Maybe i am misunderstanding a part of what you said but with which DAC are u getting that x2 from?
     
  17. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    I think he is talking about upsampling from software like HQPlayer or Roon
     
  18. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    That's what i was thinking but wanted to be sure.
     
  19. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    Indeed, I am using HQplayer to achieve that with Metrum Onyx.

    In the past, I had DACs like Meier StageDAC or Audio-GD Compass2 that allowed for 2x OS with no need for software upsampling. The quality of filters in HQplayer is of course higher though, therefore would recommend going that way rather than chase some old-school DAC with questionnable filters.

    My original point was that I would like to see some modern DACs with similar "best of both worlds" approach. Maybe some of the Soekris DACs can be programmed for that? Not sure.
     
  20. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    Have a Morpheus setup with JBL L100 speakers/ Aeiger / Pi2Aes. The Jbls are fun somewhat warmish speakers (wife's preference). Even with this warmish setup, there is zero muddiness heard. In fact the opposite. Musical layering is cohesive and can easily identity positioning, staging. The highs drop off slightly but not too far off the Yggdrasil, both dacs are pretty close just different flavors (imo). My headphone setup with the morpheus it's pretty much the same, minus the obvious sound stage difference. It does sound bloaty on shitty headphone amps though, so your whole chain has be taken into account.

    Side note; wife was playing spotify from her phone and it sounded like crap.. so crap in crap out. Also the usb is horrible on the dac and if that was used for demoing, it probably sounds worse than a Modi Multi-bit. Point is, your chain is important and if you're using usb/spotify with the morpheus, go get a used modi multi-bit instead, will probably sound better and you'll save 3k.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020

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