Sony MDR-Z7 Measurements and Succinct Review

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Oct 28, 2015.

  1. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    Haha hell, way to make a guy feel uncultured: With the exception of Sinatra none of these names ring a bell. That could be anything from 60s swing to current trash metal, for all I know :D

    I'll check it out later today, and might write a short comparison of the HD600 @nd Z7 tomorrow. They are very different headphones that is for certain.
     
  2. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I'd say steer clear of Chainsmokers (just hearing a few bars of "Closer" turns me homicidal; that thing got way too much airplay here in the Philippines... and just about anywhere else), but as for the rest of the selection above, great recommendations!

    As for the Sonys, I do wish the Z7 were more balanced-sounding. I do like darker cans for extended listening sessions, but the mids were way too distant for my taste. Ended up getting the Fostex X00EB, and I find it much nicer on the whole in every way except ergonomics and build— the Fostexes are no slouch in that area, but the Z7 is just something else entirely.
     
  3. munch

    munch Friend

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    hi hello! sorry for resurrecting a thread over a year since last reply.

    just wondering if anyone still has a pair / has tried any new mods on these.
    if not, is the current mod still dynamat + acoustic fluff? or is there anyone who has compared/tried the surgical tape too?
    FR looks decent with the dynamat + fluff, but the dip is still there. was thinking maybe it would be possible to EQ it.

    I just love everything about these headphones not related to sound. sound is good, but the strange dip in the mids are making them a bit sleepy for vocals, for me.
    don't own a pair, so I can't really try EQ or anything unfortunately.

    can't seem to let these go, they are so beautifully made... :p
     
  4. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Alright so a lot of time has passed, but @munch bought these (OG Z7, not the mk2 variant) and had them sent to me for modding. And now after way too much time I think I'm pretty close to done with these.

    Quick stock impressions (from memory):
    • Bass and sibilance give me a headache.
    • Doesn't scale. Plugged into my phone it sounds about the same as my Gungnir Multibit/Rag (SE) setup
    • Even worse than the bass and treble is the upper midrange which has a massive suckout at 1.5kHz and the MtPeak at 2.5kHz. Depending on the recording upper mids either go missing or the spike stabs your eardrums
    • I like how they look and feel. I hate to admit this, but the Japanese have this figured out way better than the Germans.
    • Soundstage is pretty claustrophobic
    • The middle midrange has some cup reverb
    • Way too much warmth in the lower midrange
    • Still, the midrange is the best part about this headphone
    • Bass does seem to have decent extension, but is more blurry than the HD800S and even HD650.
    • No air. It sounds like there's a 12kHz low pass filter.
    • Needs more treble and way less sibilance. Songs that aren't painful on my HD800 are painful on the Z7
    • Did I mention the upper midrange peak?
    • Channel balance is "meh" at best. Left channel has noticeably more of the 2.5kHz peak, right channel has more sibilance (and I noticed this before measuring)
    • These are almost in the 40k SN range. I wonder how Sony manages to sell so many.
    • Isolation and leakage are okay. They are closed headphones, but in-ears isolate more and leak less.
    • Still, they are better than most consumer level headphones. Tuning at least sounds somewhat deliberate, some sense of micro and macro dynamics, etc.
    Taking off the pads was probably the most stressful thing I've done to these headphones. They're screwed in with a tiny screw hidden underneath the pads. I'm fairly certain this is a JIS screw, not a Philips screw. I guess most of you probably don't have a JIS screwdriver, but by unscrewing it with a Philips you can very easily damage the screw or slip and puncture the driver. You have to sort of press on the pads with one hand so you can unscrew it with the other. Just thinking about it makes me nervous.

    Stuffing the cups with wool gives acceptable results. Brings down the bass and sibilance to bearable levels. It doesn't clean up the bass, only helps with the reverb a bit and doesn't do much for the staging, but still a whole lot better than stock. The downside is it makes the upper midrange peak stick out even more and the sound overall too overdamped. This is like the 20% effort for 80% of the result mod.
    FWIW I did not like the effects of the tape mod, even made sure to buy the right tape. It's actually a very noticeable change to the sound, more than you'd think, but it sounds worse to me.

    There's really no point in posting my own FR measurements since they're virtually identical to my compensated version of Tyll's Z7 measurements (except this one had more of a channel imbalance than Tyll's pair):
    Sony MDR-Z7.jpg
    I got a tiny bit more bass extension on my head. Flat to 30Hz with a pretty steep rolloff below that (considering it's a headphone, -3db at around 20Hz). The 3.5kHz dip also looked sharper on my head, which I attribute to the averaging smoothing things out in this region. Moving it on my head does affect this region. And finally the 500Hz dip looked a bit narrower on my head with more energy towards either side of it.

    To be continued...
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm curious what you would say about the "TOTL" MDR-Z1R.
     
  6. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Yeah, I suspect the Z7mk2 even has the same or a very similar driver as the Z1R and it seems the Z7 fans hate the new version.
    The good thing about the Z7 is that the bass distortion seems to be entirely fixable, just not with simple cup damping. The bad thing is the 1.4kHz hole can't be fixed. Once the bass is cleaned up it really does sound like a 70mm driver for better or worse.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    As as aside, @zach915m is my favorite manufacturer of Japanese headphones. He's doing what Japanese headphones strive to be or should be.
     
  8. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Sony Z7 mod:

    I want to get this out of the way before I go on talking about the sound once modded:

    Sony Z7 stock distortion (in-ear method):
    [​IMG]

    Sony Z7 modded distortion (in-ear method):
    [​IMG]
    (This is with the same volume level on the amp. Modded is more efficient from 100Hz to 2kHz, but has a bit less energy in the 30-70Hz region. Overall volume levels are pretty comparable. I even think my rig is the limiting factor from 20-40Hz.)

    *EDIT: Changed the distortion measurement scale to make them comparable to my old HD800 and SR202 distortion measurements here. These are also fundamental frequency as reference distortion measurements. Also attached my HD600 (modded) distortion for comparison. Stock Z7 is worse than HD600 in the bass, modded it's better. Note that I am using new WM61As that I ordered off ebay a few months ago since my old mic developed some distortion. These new ones seem to be of inferior quality - noisier and a less even and extended FR that definitely needs compensation. Could be that they're fake.*


    Yep, that's right. the bass distortion is entirely fixable. This is the bass a 70mm driver deserves. Quite a bit more extended than stock too. Not only that, but it's even a very simple fix. On the very outside of the back of the driver baffle there are two paper filters. One of these has a tiny vent hole that seemingly vents to underneath the pad. Cover that with a strip of tape and most of the bass distortion (especially the nasty D3) is gone. That hole is also why bass rolls off below 35Hz, so you also get more extension, which will probably be too much without any other mods.

    Since I only added back damping to the Z7 I was super curious to see how various damping materials would compare. Since I needed damping materials for my small desktop speakers anyway I decided to order a few that I thought would be interesting...

    Damping material comparison:
    Here's a pic of the four materials that I ordered to give you an idea of the amount that was needed in conjunction with the other mods that I used.
    [​IMG]

    No damping material
    • bass hits hard, but is more blurry than it should be
    • staging lacks depth
    • midrange too reverby
    • treble is confused
    Sonofil
    • I only cut it in a square because I'm lazy and I also got the black variant. Maybe both of those were mistakes. Either way what I heard wasn't good enough to bother cutting it into a proper shape
    • treble gets cleaner, but somehow sharper?
    • a bit less bass, doesn't hit as hard as it should (note that the measurements actually showed a bit more bass for the sonofil)
    • staging actually gets less wide, but not any deeper
    • at least not as smeared as no damping material, otherwise not any better
    Sheep's wool
    • Sounds noticeably more damped in the midrange and treble, both good and bad
    • bass actually has impact now
    • staging gets wider and a tiny bit deeper
    • imaging is a bit more precise
    • treble is cleaner and much more damped
    • a decent step up vs the sonofil
    Mundorf Angel hair
    • immediately sounds more open
    • better width and depth
    • more lively
    • most airy of the bunch
    • treble has much better timbre
    • bass has more realistic dynamics, bass is cleaner
    • more natural timbre, but still a bit damped sounding
    • a massive step up vs the wool
    Mundorf Unicorn tail
    • I can tell I like this one the best immediately
    • vocals have more natural timbre
    • sound seems to flow more naturally
    • most three dimensional staging with most precise imaging
    • bass sounds the cleanest and most dynamic
    • treble is the smoothest, while also being the brightest
    • I think it does have less upper treble than the angel hair though, which is not a good thing in my book
    • the difference between the unicorn tail and the angel hair is smaller than angel hair vs sheep's wool though. the twaron fibers seem awesome
    Note that the CSDs I got didn't seem to correlate well with my impressions at all, however it seems 2nd order distortion at 2.5kHz got a tiny bit better roughly as I ranked the materials. Not sure if that's indicative of anything or just measurement error.

    After a while I wanted to improve on the Unicorn Tail by adding the air that the Angel Hair had, but combining the two never gave me the sound that I wanted. It either wasn't airy enough or it sounded too overdamped in the upper midrange. I decided to try the Kapok fibers that I liked best for front damping on my RE272. The Kapok itself is just a step below the Mundorf fibers and two steps above the wool, but it has an airier, but also slightly grainier timbre. It works well on songs that inherently have warm mids, but on something like 'Is this how you feel?' by The Preatures it's just too much. The Unicorn tail is more in line with how it sounds like on my modded HD800, my speakers and my RE272 to me where it's just on the edge, but it can still be enjoyed at 80 or even 90dbA. I ended up putting a small piece in the center, as can be seen on the left unicorn tail pile. This gave me most of the air while not impacting the mid-treble smoothness too much.

    I also attached a quick FR measurement of the modded Z7, but I learned that you can very easily get a similar or even better FR, but it will still sound worse. I tried to voice it a bit warmer than my HD600, which I already voiced a bit warmer than my HD800 for when I want a bit of a relaxed sound, but also with less midbass than the stock HD600.
    The channel imbalance in the treble is what it is, not much I could do about it, but I think I can get the midrange just a bit closer than it is right now. Since I have to put in the mods again and measure the result I will try to get it a bit closer before subjecting it to a few tests to make sure everything stays in place before I can finally ship it out. The FR measurements don't really seem very different now, but I need to take more proper FR measurements anyway when I fix the imbalance.

    I voiced it for about a 2-2.5db bass emphasis vs the midrange which is about the maximum I can stand before I get annoyed. In terms of technicalities even the modded Z7 doesn't reach the HD600, but it is fun to listen to and overall quite a cohesive sound despite the 1.4kHz dip. I tried everything I could to make the dip stand out less, but it seems inherent to the driver and there's nothing I could do. I also completely redesigned the driver damping (replaced the stock paper, which sounded worse and raised the distortion a bit), added a bit of dynamat to the baffle and driver magnet (more ended up sounding too etched - more reflections I assume) and added some melamine foam to further smoothen the treble.
    What's really the best part about the modded Z7 is its bass. It does sound as clean as the measurements suggest, maybe even more so. Handles high SPL incredibly well and the bass also extends almost as well as planars or IEMs. The soundstage is also suprisingly big and "open" for a closed headphone and the imaging isn't bad either. I no longer find sibilance an issue, but the lack of air is obvious, as is the 1.4kHz dip. It doesn't seem like that can be fixed.

    Overall it's a surprisingly fun and engaging sound once modded and the construction and build quality are impressive.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Have you tried cheap acoustic poly fill or deadly fiberglass insulation? I didn't know Mundorf offered audiophile grade stuffing materials with cool names like Goat Scotum Fuzz.
     
  10. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Oh snot, Twaron is marketed under Mundorf now? That's good and bad I suppose. The angel hair stuff was magic (in a good way) when I was deep into ortho modding, and I think it was cheaper back then too. The difference between the angel hair and unicorn tail was just how much the fibers were teased to fluff them out (there was one more product going the other way, more packed and less fluffy; I forget the name though). It was mostly sold to speaker guys, and you could even get sample packages for free which would have been enough for a couple headphones.

    My own modded HE-6 has an extra layer/sandwich of angel hair and felt in front of the driver (also using unobtainium J$ leather pads, because the crazy train to speshul city left a long time ago).

    edit: it looks like the Mundorf stuff isn't as good as the original... https://www.eltim.eu/index.php?action=page&group_id=10000062&lang=en
     
  11. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    @Armaegis Yep, I wish I could get to compare them, but I can't get any of the original ones anymore. Supposedly they sound pretty much the same, but I don't really trust anyone who says things sound the same. If anything the old material might even sound different purely based on age.
    The third one was the elves hair. I didn't buy that one.

    @purr1n The sonofil is basically one local alternative to that. There are others, too. I also have IKEA pillows stuffed with polyester stuffing. I can try those too, but honestly I don't expect any miracles.
    I don't want to try fiberglass, but I have 0.4m³ sheep's wool insulation for getting rid of the floor bounce when measuring speakers outdoors. It looks nearly the same as the wool that I ordered from hifisound though and I expect them to sound nearly the same, too.

    I was surprised by the differences honestly and before I tried them I was also sceptical if the Twaron fibers would be any better than wool. Thankfully it turned out that they are, as they should be at the price. I bet for speakers it will be just as important as the Z7.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  12. peter young

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    Hi Serious - Just come across this thread on the MDR-Z7s i already have done the surgical tape mod, which i was quite happy with, having read your comments - i'm willing to order the unicorn tail wool, will it make a big difference - do i take all the tape out and just replace with the wool and reassemble to hear the improvement ?
     
  13. purr1n

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    Yes take out tape. Stuff cups with material. Don't be afraid to play around changing amount of material, perhaps adding the tape afterward.

    Note that people here don't necessarily read HF and may not be aware of applying the back of the drivers with surgical tape, adding charcoal bags, using multi-colored bits of plasticine, etc.
     
  14. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Yep, this is what I ended up with:
    [​IMG]
    You can see that I blocked the port hole a bit and replaced the stock paper covering the back of the driver. While you're at it I would also block (with tape) the port hole on the outer edge of the baffle.

    Here's a link to the FR that I ended up with:
     
  15. peter young

    peter young New

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    Thanks for the update, i will get a bag of the unicorn tail ordered :)
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Don't forget the mass loading / vibration absorbing strips.
     
  17. redrich2000

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    MDRZ7 thread back from the dead again... is the reference to mass/loading strips here referind dynamat? And where exactly did you put it? Any pics by any chance?
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    A few strips on the back of the cup. I didn't overdo it.
     
  19. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Yes, small strips of dynamat. I found just a bit goes a long way and you can easily overdo it.
    You can kind of make out in my pic above where I put it. Here's a better view of the same thing:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. redrich2000

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    Got a set of these now. They already had the tape mod, so I just added some dynamat around the driver initially. They've still got a bit of that midrage boxy/reverby tone, but only on some tracks. The B&WPX i used commuting for a while were like that. The PX has angled drivers too. Is there any chance that's the issue?

    Can I ask an embarrasing newb question... what is the baffle?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019

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