Spirit of the Market - Guidelines to help buyers and sellers

Discussion in 'For Sale' started by shipsupt, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. shipsupt

    shipsupt Admin

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    Welcome to the SBAF Market

    THE IDEA BEHIND THIS: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...lp-buyers-and-sellers.1840/page-2#post-108771
    NO FAULT RULE AND MODERATOR ARBITRATION WHEN SHIT HAPPENS: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...lp-buyers-and-sellers.1840/page-2#post-166255


    Is anyone old enough to remember your neighborhood flea market or swap meet? If you do, you likely remember that you went there to get a deal. You knew it wasn't likely that you'd find "new" stuff, in fact, most of what you found was a little worn but well-loved. Some guys had a "stall" set up every weekend, and you wondered what they'd be selling this week. Sometimes you'd meet someone completely new who had something you'd never seen, but you knew you had to have it! It was OK to haggle on price, but you were face to face and treated each other with respect even when you couldn’t reach a deal.

    The SBAF market shares some common traits with the flea market of yesterday. The most important one is that it's about community. Here is where friends buy, sell, and trade with friends. We offer great deals to friends so they can have a taste of excellent gear. We sell "good stuff" to new guys so they can grow in the hobby and save them from the HD-700. We often give equipment to friends in need.

    SBAF is not the place to be if you want to sell in high volume. Here is not the place to "flip" goods for profit. This not the place to take advantage of eager newbies. Don't use this place for an auction. There are plenty of places on the Internet for these types of selling: eBay, Head-Fi, and Audiogon to name a few.

    There is every expectation that the transaction will go super smoothly.

    How about an example:

    I sold bioniclephile a turntable.

    bioniclephile said that the motor mount rubber band broke in shipment. bioniclephile immediately sent me a photo so that I could see and understand EXACTLY what happened.

    That rubber band was old. I ordered a replacement to be sent to him immediately and directly (from the UK) at my expense.

    bioniclephile said I could have just given him the link!​

    This spirit of mutual respect and honor, of smooth transactions, is expected here. It's not about the money; it's about friends taking care of their friends first.

    Anything less means you will lose flea market privileges.

    Just like the rest of the site, there is an expectation that you will know how to act. If you can't get along here in the market, we'll let you know quickly.



    Here are few guidelines to help you when you are buying or selling here:

    Sellers
    1. No flipping - No one likes a flipper here. Flipping is buying with the purpose of selling for profit. If this is what you're after, great, just don't do it here. That goes for buying cheap here to sell for profit elsewhere... when you get caught you'll be done here.

    2. Don't make your third post here a For Sale thread. If you're looking for a place to sell gear quickly and for a good price go to Head-Fi, Audiogon, or somewhere else... Get to know us first before you set up shop.

    3. List a price - This isn't an auction site. If you don't know what your item is worth, ask around. There will be exceptions to this, but for the most part, throw a price up there for negotiation.

    4. Leave your asking price up AFTER the sale. Don't delete it. Leaving the asking price helps other buyers checking market prices, reduces flipping, and is a decent courtesy. There are obvious exceptions and reasons to delete the asking price, but let it be the exception.

    5. SBAF isn't an auction site - If you get an offer for your asking price, honor the offer. Don't start shopping for a buyer who'll pay more. This is common sense stuff, right?

    6. If you're selling an epic amount of gear, it probably makes sense to make a single post that lists everything. It keeps the first-page cleaner so folks can shop quicker and sellers can sell faster too!

    7. The so-called “Interest Check” - A subject of great debate! For now, Interest checks are OK but don't use them to fish for prices or run a subtle auction.

    8. Be sure to report any buyers you have issues with to the head flea @shipsupt

    9. Be reasonable with your "bumps."

    10. Be sure to post SOLD on the thread and let the head flea @shipsupt know so we can keep the forum clean.

    11. Use common sense. If the deal you're about to try and make isn't one you'd do with a good friend or family member, you might want to take it elsewhere.


    Buyer Beware
    Markets are not just made up of sellers. Buyers have responsibilities too!

    1. Don't crap on for sale threads - You may not agree with a price or a product description, but as long as the seller is not dishonest in his representation leave it alone! If you've got a problem with the listing, suspect flipping, or just need to vent then send a note to the head flea @shipsupt.

    2. Don't be a perpetual tire kicker. Don't jerk the chain of every seller on the forum if you're not buying.

    3. If you make ridiculous offers don't expect much response from sellers. If you can't reach a deal, move on.

    4. Once you make the deal, meet your end of it. Pay, trade, provide services or do whatever you promised. We expect the same from the seller. This is the stuff that's completely out of our hands, but we expect our community members to act responsibly.

    5. DO speak up for good sellers. Leave feedback in their FS threads. DO let us know about bad sellers by contacting the head flea @shipsupt.

    6. Try to keep the discussion focused on the sale of the item. There are other areas on the site for general discussions.



    All the typical legalize should go here. The bottom line is that all we are providing is some real estate on the internet for our friends to sell some gear to friends. The deal and all the risk that comes with it is for the buyer and seller.

    Good luck! I've seen some amazing gear sneak through our little market with little fanfare. If you're a buyer, you just might find a treasure.

    - shipsupt - head flea in the market

    ..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2017
  2. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    I´m impressed by how quickly you guys shut down a guy trying to flip a Liquid Carbon. Keep up the great work. Long live the spirit of SBAF! :D
     
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  3. Griffon

    Griffon 2nd biggest asshole on SBAF

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    Suggestions:

    If you're a new to this site, these two actions are highly recommended BEFORE you post big value For Sale thread:

    1. Introduce yourself in the introduction thread here (http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/new-members-introduce-yourself.17/)
    2. Engage in community discussions. Quantity doesn't matter, quality does.

    People here tend to dislike people joining this site solely to broaden their chances of selling gear.
     
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  4. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I may restrict new posts in the FS section to Members (people with at least X posts) and Friends. Opening up this section to everyone isn't quite working out.

    Too many new people making their first post here or making two garbage posts before posting here. Sure you are less likely to be dicked around here by known buyers, but I've decided that such a privilege must be earned.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
  5. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I'm unlikely to be affected by this, being on a different continent to most of the sellers/buyers. If Kothganesh and I want to sell each other something, we don't need SBAF to do it :). But my view from a distance is...

    If you really want to maintain a high quality, then maybe even consider making it a Friends market. After all, you are not looking for high volume in that section, or even using to use it to attract new members. More like the opposite.
     
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  6. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    That does make sense...flea market not mass market!

    I'm also on a different continent, but I like to think building up some trust might allow me to see or buy something that would usually be CONUS only.
     
  7. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    I totally agree with this, but speaking of Friends, exactly what are the qualifications of being a Friend? I've been wondering about this for some time but hasn't brought it up until now. After hitting my 100th post and 100th like here, I sort of expected a promotion(?) of some kind. And while I did become an Active Member and get extra Trophy Points, I still haven't become a Friend. Hate to admit it, but I do feel kinda FOMO for a site I visit on a daily basis...

    I'm guessing MOT's of well-known companies deserve the title regardless of posts, which is understandable. Ditto for well-known journalists and reviewers like Tyll. Also, I believe those who were previously ABS at CS were automatically given the Friend title when they moved to SBAF. Having joined CS for less than a year when it imploded, I was only a PM back then so I figure that didn't apply to me.

    However, I've seen quite a few people who've never joined CS, joined SBAF later than I have (I joined SBAF almost as soon as it was born), have fewer post count and fewer likes than me become Friends quickly. I would understand if they've made a huge contribution to this community like Sorrodje have with his SuperDupont resonator mod, but that's not always the case either. And I've seen this happen back in the CS days too, members who are relatively newer and have fewer posts and likes than me becoming ABS. I hope it has nothing to do with our previous activity at HF (speaking of which, I've been a member for 6 years now).

    So I'm asking out of curiosity, is there an objective set of criteria or quota which one must meet in order to be made a Friend? Or is it all subjective and left to be decided by the moderators here? Then I suppose those who live in the US, especially in California where most of the official SBAF meets are held has a higher chance of being Friends than those like me who live overseas.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
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  8. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Originally, it was Changstar members and those who contributed financially --- which probably meant Changstar members anyway in the early SBAF days. I don't know if it mattered if Changstar membership had been a year, a day or since the beginning.

    As a restriction then, it is fairly arbitrary, but has a component of community interest and, for the contributors, the willingness to open the purse in the name of that interest.

    It's like approaching a pile of CVs on one's desk. Exams passed and even higher academic qualifications (unless very specialist) probably have no bearing whatsoever on ability to do the job, but when you have to short list from several hundred, got to start somewhere, and it probably is not going to be with reading every one from start to finish.

    Heck, I'm a friend... there's actually no way I'm much of a headphone hobbyist, and even SBAF, at times, gets a bit audiophile for me, But there is a certain something about the site, about the community, that makes me want to see it continue, and makes me want to go on being a member. Hence the modest financial contribution and... I'm still here

    :bird:

    .
     
  9. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

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    Easiest way to become a friend is to donate a bit of money to the cause. That is how I became a friend.
     
  10. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    I thought it was mentioned somewhere on the rules that bribery was the most straightforward way in
     
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  11. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday! - Friend

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    No to the first, yes to the second.
     
  12. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    Well I'd love to contribute, spending time in this community sure saved me a lot of trouble and money that could've been spent on more expensive yet mediocre gears.

    So how is it done? PayPal?
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Don't worry about it. You should have been "made" a while back.
     
  14. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Wait wait, you mean I didn't have to knock over a liquor store and kidnap the union boss' daughter to get in? Oh man, I gotta, uh... make some phonecalls...
     
  15. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    Don't worry, I was one step ahead of you. Didn't work.
     
  16. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    You have the daughter? How much for the daughter?! This is the market place thread, right.
     
  17. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    If you don't mind I could always sell you the grandmother.
     
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  18. MrTie

    MrTie Friend

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    I agree with this, it's worked pretty well with Audiokarma's bartertown, majority of my deals there have been safe and comfortable, any time I've done transactions on an open market like headfi half the messages I get outright insult me or freak out my scam senses.
     
  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Wasn't there a nearly-new moderator on offer recently? Definitely is the market place.

    The daughter is shouty to the point of being shrieking. Horrible highs and no bass. Take the grandmother: nice and mellow, with a mature, even response. Come to think of it, I had a girlfriend who was a grandmother twenty years ago. Yep: I recommend grandmothers. I think I can even pass a double-blind test on this one, although I guess that requires that the daughter and grandmother themselves don't know which is which. This is getting tricky.
     
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  20. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    And now I have a pair of HD600s. See? Top of the range twenty years ago, and still damned good today. I think I'll call them Granny.

    Excuse me. I'm off to bury my head in Granny.
     
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