Subwoofers for 2ch setups

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Chris F, Nov 24, 2015.

  1. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    No thread here yet on the topic of subs so here we go....

    I need a sub to pair with my Event Opal monitors as they simply do not fill in the bottom octaves enough. 2 ch nearfield setup in small (8x13) room. Sub does not need to go super low (the music I work with has little/nothing below 40Hz) however frequency accuracy and tonal quality/texture are very important. I'm also engaged with the guys at GIK to fully treat my room so it should be OK from that perspective.

    Was thinking a REL T5i would fit the bill.

    Can anyone offer suggestions or resources?
     
  2. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Sealed or ported? DIY? How you going to xover? Dedicated power amp or Class-D plate amp?
     
  3. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    For anyone on the north-american continent I think the Martin Logan Balanced Force subwoofers are excellent products. Not the loudest, not reaching the deepest frequencies, but very musical, clean, fast, and integrate pretty well into most rooms. Definitely give them a listen. These are more music-subwoofers than home theater-subwoofers. I also think they look pretty nice. http://www.martinlogan.com/balancedforce/index.php

    There are two models: The BalancedForce 210 with 2x10inch drivers and the BalancedForce 212 with 2x12inch drivers. Obviously the latter will go lower, but its also a lot more expensive. In most cases I would recommend the smaller one. Given the traditional nature of Martin Logans dealer-model you can expect a discount when buying from a local dealer.

    EDIT: Just saw the price of the REL. Nevermind the ML, obviously a different price category.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  4. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    I think sealed. Sub needs to be self powered, I don't have an (big power) amp in the room. I live in a condo and it's going into a tiny 8x13 room so huge output/excursion is not needed. Goal is frequency response and bass quality.

    x-over/integration:
    - Sub and monitors will be fed from Ragnarok; monitors from pre-amp outs, sub attached to speaker taps
    - sub should have hardware configurable rolloff/xover point
    - event opals have a single hardware EQ filter which can be set anywhere 40-200Hz with variable Q and depth
    - (likely extensive) room treatments from GIK to minimize room nodes/reflections etc...
    - for frequency response critical work (aka: remastering old records), DSP (convolver/sonarworks) as needed

    Price; I'm looking at something in the $1000 range +-$500. (about $750USD +- $350)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  5. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    Here is what I sent to Bryan at GIK. Treatment plan is not final yet but you get an idea of what's going on. The room is 13x8 and I am forced to have the speakers on the wrong wall due to the annoyingly bad (for audio) layout.

    I would like to get flat frequency response down to about 40Hz. The Event Opals start rolling off at about 60Hz and are about 10dB down by 40Hz so I'm looking for something to fill in that frequency gap between 30-60Hz.

    I think the plan right now will be to see what the room measures post treatment and then integrate a small powered sub like a T5 or T-Zero.

    . CF Room.jpg
     
  6. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    there is no such as a "slow" sub or "fast" sub to get that out of the way. only cabniet/room resoance and overhang/underdamping makes things seem like a bass driver is slow/overhang. 24" sub will be as fast as a 10"...i just wanted to point that out.

    the original sub you picked looks good. i would also chose a sealed or infinite baffle design if looking at others. a ported sub depending on tuning frequency will cause some unwanted build up in your room due to extra excitment at port frequency.
     
  7. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    How do you figure that? I dont have a substantial understanding of speaker design, but a 24'' driver has MUCH greater mass than a 10'' driver. Given equal magnetic force the greater mass will be slower to accelerate than the lower mass... right?
     
  8. Ferrum

    Ferrum Rando

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    I suggest you wait until the room treatment is in place because they might solve your bass problem. Bass nodes can shift about or be reduced in your room when they are in place so the problem can be significantly lessened.
    The next step after that would be work hard at speaker placement and adjusting the Opals settings.
    Then maybe buy a sub...

    my 2c

    Ferrum
     
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  9. chakku

    chakku Friend

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  10. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    After thinking about it further, I agree. REW shows that at my chair there are ugly nodes at 150Hz, 180Hz and another around 850Hz. Things are basically flat after that until 10K after which they roll off a bit.

    I'm expecting the acoustic treatments to significantly flatten out the sub 1K response at which point I can decide on a sub. (or not)
     
  11. Ferrum

    Ferrum Rando

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    I suspect that you have nodes at lower freqs as well. You might want to investigate that a bit to be able to address those with acoustic treatments.

    Ferrum
     
  12. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    Anyone here use two subwoofers with a two channel setup? My uncle does this and says it works really well with classical music for soundstage, and says it makes for a much more solid kick drum feel. Also, movies. RUMBLERUMBLE
     
  13. Shaffer

    Shaffer Facebook Friend

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    For a room that size, I'd suggest a REL in the OP's price range.
     
  14. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex Grumpiest admin

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    honestly, given your application you're going to have a hell of a time with placement and room treatment with a single sub.

    I'd DIY two sealed 12s. I'd have to look at what's on the market before recommending drivers, though.
     
  15. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    Ordered the GIK panels yesterday. Exactly what is pictured in the room chart from my previous post. Stuff should arrive before Christmas I hope.

    Here is the 1/12 smoothed response in my room right now:
    Screen Shot 2015-12-02 at 8.58.10 PM.png

    As you can see it's all over the place below 1K.

    Will remeasure post treatment and then decide how to proceed.
     
  16. Shaffer

    Shaffer Facebook Friend

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    GIK makes a nice product. I use their 4" and 8" panels.
     
  17. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    GIK panels arrived! They are not fully in place yet so no measurements yet but first impression is huge huge huge improvement. Frequency response and imaging are both massively improved just with the panels resting on the floor and nothing on the ceiling yet. Definitely a "night and day" sort of change.

    Will post measurements when I have everything completed; might be a few weeks due to the holidays/out of town/super busy. I need to reposition my audio rack and read up on how to drill into the concrete ceiling for the cloud brackets.
     

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