Survey - How Musically Literate Are You?

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by Arnold_J_Rimmer, Feb 19, 2021.

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How Musically Literate Are You?

  1. Can't read music & don't play an instrument

    24.7%
  2. Can read music, but don't play an instrument

    3.9%
  3. Can read music & play an instrument

    14.3%
  4. Play an instrument, but can't read music

    11.7%
  5. Trained musician (a few years or more of lessons) and can read music

    29.9%
  6. Qualified Musician - Diploma, degree or doctorate

    6.5%
  7. Interested amateur with some knowledge of music history and/or theory

    9.1%
  1. Arnold_J_Rimmer

    Arnold_J_Rimmer Probationary member

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    I'm writing a music blog thingy on SBAF here and am thinking about exploring certain topics in a bit more detail. In order to make this worthwhile at least some of the people reading it will need to be musically literate. Please choose one of the options from the poll. If more than one applies to you, choose the closest.

    Feel free to comment expanding on your background.

    Thanks!

    Edit: Also nice to know a bit more about one another.
    Edit 2: No shame in not being able to read music or play an instrument - There are different and complementary paths to musical enjoyment
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  2. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    No clue about reading music or making it; I just like listening to the stuff and making funny sounds with my voice. I very rarely doodle with an old harmonica I have lying around but it's really more ambient and mood stuff than proper Buddy Greene or Paul Butterfield-type playing and that's about it.
     
  3. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    For quite a low value of some.

    I did play in instrument in South-Indian classical music at a beginner level. Have not even tried to practise for 15 years.

    I am just an audience member, in an audience where literacy (knowledge of raga and rhythm) is generally very high. Mine is low. I am assured by a very senior musician not to worry about it, just go on loving the music.
     
  4. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I played violin for 3 years and cello for 5 years.

    Funny part is I never was as good with the cello as I was with the violin even though I played longer. The treble clef was still ingrained in me and bass clef was never really easy for me to read. Plus cello had a big range where you could shift up and play alto or treble. With violin it wasn't possible to play lower.
     
  5. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    When I was in elementary school (late 60's) school districts still subsidized music education, so starting in 3rd and 4th grades probably 40-50% of the students at least started the process of learning to play an instrument and read music, and by high school, I would guess that 10% of us could read music and were in jazz band, concert band, orchestra, marching band, or some vocal music program, or some combo thereof. Don't think music education has that kind of support anymore, from schools or local businesses like music stores, who in my schools provided loaner instruments at some de minimus fee for a time. Not commenting on whether that is good or not actually; hard choices sometimes have to be made, but it is kind of a bummer.
     
  6. sheldaze

    sheldaze Friend

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    Not sure where to vote? I play and read, but I have also had a few years of music training - absolutely not a trained musician. Amateur, with some knowledge of history and music theory...
     
  7. Jinxy245

    Jinxy245 Vegan Puss

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    I'm somewhere between can & can't read music, don't play any instruments currently. I took a little trumpet in junior high and was taught the basics, but I don't remember much except "Every Good Boy Does Fine" and the like. I never had the drive nor the environment to learn an instrument, so I decided to throw my money into musical enjoyment rather than playing.
     
  8. ksat90

    ksat90 Acquaintance

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    Played the piano with theory lessons for years, but never bothered to be graded. Also the guitar but mostly for pop songs. Sang in choir/acapella group. Would be interested in both casual/in-depth explanations. Thanks for taking the time to write about it.
     
  9. Arnold_J_Rimmer

    Arnold_J_Rimmer Probationary member

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    Someone else has indicated that they have a tertiary music qualification. If they could either send me a PM or identify themselves here that would be cool. Would like to have a chat about some other projects.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  10. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    I'm conflicted about how to answer. I didn't have music education while growing up. In my 30's (decades ago) I wanted to fill this gap in my knowledge, and I took music theory and piano classes. I'm an engineer and I can understand music from a technical standpoint (scales, keys, modes, chords, etc). I can look at written music and decipher it with some effort. However, I don't feel that I can "read music". I can analyze music notation like math formulas but have difficulty connecting it with the sound it represents.
     
  11. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I took piano, guitar, and singing lessons when I was younger. I can’t do more than play a few rudimentary chords on either piano or guitar now. I was able to stumble through sight reading back then but can’t do it now.
     
  12. robot zombie

    robot zombie Friend

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    I am embarrassingly not literate for the amount of time I have spent playing instruments. I started teaching myself guitar when I was 13. I was very diligent for the first 5-7 years. Always learning new songs and doing exercises... at least 3 hours a day. I picked up a little theory in that time, but really just bits and pieces. At the time I actually had musician friends, some of them very proficient and trained in one thing or another. So I learned some things from them. But most things, I have learned the wrong way. I do things and I can't tell you how or why I do them :p 17 years of guitar and I can barely improvise lol

    For me, playing instruments has always just been another way to enjoy music. Yes, you have to put your nose to the grindstone and suck for a long time... put in a lot of monotonous work. But you do hit a point where maybe you're not blowing anybody's minds with your playing, but you're comfortable and you can actually relax while you play. Some people strive to be the best the can be at their instruments in the NAME of getting closer to the music - having that command makes the music in your head that much easier to grab. But I don't think you NEED to approach one that way. You're thinking about becoming a musician and realistically, the last things the world need are more musicians, so you might as well enjoy it.

    I don't know how to explain it. Internally I feel like I have a pretty versatile system for organizing things and breaking it all into discreet components. But I never took the time to gather the vocabulary that everyone else has. I can build 'difficult' chords, but I can't tell you their names. I have a working understanding of how intervals go together to make scales, which I can then pluck chords out of. This is something I am sure I have a real, solid understanding of. About 2 years into playing guitar I started teaching myself to audiate. It started off as a way to pass time in class. I would try to hone in on melodies in my head, mime the motions, and write them out in tablature. I ended up doing so much of that, I can keep track of multiple melodies in my head and accurately write them out, even if I don't know any terminology or proper written from.

    It's not that my understanding of music is abstract, it's just... impossible to communicate! Lets go with that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  13. Sqveak

    Sqveak Friend

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    Tried learning 6 string electric a little over a decade ago with little guidance or sense of direction.
    Started again last week with my old (American made) Peavey Predator and a Pignose amp.
    Also playing around with a Roland SE-02 and an old Yamaha MIDI keyboard.

    No formal training. Can barely read tablature.
     
  14. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    Music major for a couple of years in college. Played guitar. I thought I was going to be a music teacher, but ended up switching to math.

    Taught private lessons for a couple of years after I started my teaching career, but that was ages ago and I hardly play anymore, sadly.
     
  15. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    If you play music long enough, you pick up at least some music theory. I can't read music, but have had a few classes, so I know some. I do understand modes, scales, circle of fiths, intervals, etc.

    I play by ear though and the connection between paper and my fingers never made it. I am an ear oriented person, not an eye oriented person and could never make the connection other than 7th and 8th grade bass drum or snare, but that is just reading quarter notes and rests. Trap kit notation might as well be in Sanskrit.

    PS - I had a professor in college who had us calculate the frequency and wavelength of differt notes, eg. G#2. And then we would have to calculate all the harmonic frequencies up to the 5th harmonic.
     
  16. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    I tried to learn keyboard/synthesizer, guitar and piano in the past years. Never focused or motivated enough.

    Once the chaos of my life will decrease I am going to pick up a guitar and learn all those songs that keep me on my feet. Some songs need to be remembered. Probably this year or first quarter 2022.
     
  17. Arnold_J_Rimmer

    Arnold_J_Rimmer Probationary member

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    Jack of all trades, master of none. Completed BMus in mid 90's at Melbourne Uni, failing second year practical study (trumpet) along the way. Went with the intention of becoming a musicologist or composer, either of which would have had me eating my boots within six months of graduation. Ended up as a high school music teacher. Tortured myself with teaching for five years (with a couple of totally unrelated jobs in between) until I got sick and "retired".

    At various times I've played trumpet, cornet, trombone, tenor horn, tuba, bass guitar, drums, piano and bagpipes, also conducting various school and community music groups. Last year my childhood piano teacher gave me $2k to put towards a piano, which I have been gratefully playing since. Started preparing for AMEB Cert. Perf. but have put this on hold for the moment.

    I'm not great at anything, but somehow have been able to communicate a love for music that others have picked up on. It makes me smile to hear a couple of ex-students say that I influenced them in becoming music teachers themselves.

    Edit - Big believer in the ability of music to help improve mental health and a sense of community. In retrospect, I should have qualified as a music therapist.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  18. robot zombie

    robot zombie Friend

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    Interesting way to look at it. IME this is true. My understanding of notes is basically rotating stacks of matrices, if that makes any sense. Every note in every mode is directly bridged to another in this morphing latice. Seems daunting but as you start crawling through that lattice it becomes more navigable, even if you never see that big picture like someone who's really studied would.

    Very tricky to describe, but simple when you have those concepts already on hand. The words are just a shortcut to the logic. I understand the logic of how notes come together, how each and every one gives the mode the range of sounds and feelings it offers, and the roles each interval in there can play in a melody or chord, and all of the different ways those chords can be voiced and formed into progressions that in themselves have a greater gestalt than any of the chords in them - because of every note in every chord.

    But the thing is, I don't study things like that. I LISTEN for them. When I listen to music and I hear a chord that makes me feel weird or just stands out in some way, I reverse engineer how it's put together and what that choice represents within its given context. That has ALWAYS been a big part of the adventure. I love composition, music is like this big magic instrument panel with endless buttons, lights, faders, and knobs, all of which correspond to different shit in your brain. I'm always trying to figure those things out. And I think you can't avoid it if you play for long enough. You'll hear chords and just know how to play them. Or you'll be hearing a song for the first time andcomplete a passage correctly before it finishes.

    Being this type of player has pros and cons. Composition is like a messy adventure for me, but it's very fun and because I'm... committed to being sloppy, no two days of playing or writing are the same. I have a grasp of melody that's my own, same with my technique and posture, which also aren't perfectly repeatable. I play how I play and nobody sounds like me.

    I just will never have the consistency of say, that violinist where every picosecond of the performance is a precision endeavor and there are names for 3 separate little movements of the bow occurring within 10ns of each other. Even if I practiced enough to execute moves like that, I wouldn't have the command or direction to really conceive of a performance in that way and understand every move being made.

    That's a master musician in my book. Someone who's grasp of music is so deep and effortless they circulate it via respiration... someone who understands every single movement and has put in the time to refine them all. They control everything that's going on, and you never see it. Very few people are that kind of musician. I definitely am not.

    I have had very good friends who were proficient in multiple instruments, one is a teacher, master pianist, and trumpet player. He asks ME for tips about songwriting and melody and the cruel irony is that he can actually tell you more about it than I can. I can sit down and work stuff out that is very intricate and complex. You'd really think really I knew what I was doing, like a real musician. And then you catch me in a jam and watch me get lost several times haha.

    I pretty much just tell people to play where they feel good on that day and I will pick it up. And I always do. But don't f'ing ask me what I was playing. If I haven't forgotten it completely, I still can't tell you. All I have for you is "I'm playing this one here." *plays chord and motions to hand* or "Yeah, that 0-5-7-9-6-5 chord."

    Come to think of it, that middle ground is the worst when playing with other musicians. That chord is basically just a minor add9 with octaves of the root on the top and bottom. Which is too simple for theory heads (and probably wrong enough to argue about,) but too complicated and hard to finger for novices. So my whole existence as a musician is to make things difficult and annoying for people.


    Interesting how that all works. I don't consider myself a master of anything musical, but I can still come up with melodies that interest people without necessarily trying to do it... or at least it's not through a specific endeavor. People I've played enough with all seem to think I have certain things they struggle with figured out "I didn't realize you knew about that. How did you figure that out? What made you think to play that there?" From my perspective I am an intermediate player and they are beyond experts, so it's strange. The skill gap is really that high. And yet I have also dealt with people who are HIGHLY capable multi-instrumentalists with heads full of theory and no ability to string together compelling passages... which isn't a dig - I'd kill for their playing ability. They know it too. Most of them are performing musicians, while I hate performing and would rather just write in a cave until I die. It's just funny how people's skills diverge from what you'd think they would know.

    Maybe it's not that strange though. Music theory isn't prescriptive by default. You can teach and use it that way, but anytime I listen to somebody who is really versed in composition, amidst all of the cold terminology is a lot of subjective, flowery wording. They STILL aren't looking at it like a mathematician. It's still about the discovery, not what is known but what can be found. Music is only interesting when it can show you something new or unexpected. Not that it has to shock you every time, but still... every good song has SOMETHING in it that makes it more than it seems like it should be. That stuff cannot be taught.

    I guess it's sort of like how in color theory learning the names of the colors is the least important part. Music theory is a tool for communication and synthesis. But there is no substitute for the artistic and spiritual side, the actual recipe. No amount of practicing something will make you better able to 'feel' the pockets in a groove, or the ambivalence of a suspended second chord just looking for its color. Music theory would tell you that you could give it a major or minor third to resolve it.. or skip the satisfaction and go straight to the 5th to prep for transition or refrain. Or skip that 5th and go up to the teetering 7th, tantalizingly close to coming back around, beckoning for another tonic sunrise. Maybe you use that to reach for a minor 3rd in another key to transition to a slower, more somber breakaway. You could ride a diminished 4th arpeggio up to it for some serious drama and longing. Let the last note in the arpeggio be the 2nd for you new mode and let it fall back onto the first as a minor root chord. These are calls theory won't teach you how to make, but can help you recognize and communicate them to musicians you are playing with. THAT is what it is for. YOU still have to figure out what to play and how to make it sound good.

    Dude, I mean this in the nicest way possible. Just do it! I mean, really. No matter when you start, it's gonna take a long time. All of that is meaningless if you don't enjoy that time. If you go on quora right now you will find 1000's of posts from musicians asking if it is 'normal' to not want to practice or just lose the will to play. It absolutely is. And no amount of drive in any particular moment is ever going to 'get you past' it. It's a constant ebb and flow. So to me, it doesn't matter if you pick it up next week or next month.

    The more time and work you put in, the more you get out. But it is still a long-haul thing. Look to the horizon and you will go blind. Just gotta find those things that will put you in the moment and make you want to play. There's probably a song right now, that you can learn in 2-4 weeks, that will make you never want to put the instrument down. I think what happens with a lot of people and 'motivation' early in is that playing an instrument is work. Which it certainly is. This leads to an obsession with progress where it just can't be worth it if you're not getting it. A lot of this can be gotten around by focusing on what you like about the instrument first. There's a lot of bleed-in from the pro-musician world, where it is just this super-serious endeavor. But that IS their JOB and a lot of their advice will make normal musicians want to quit. It NEVER has to be this grand mission with all of this focus and discipline stuff. If you want to play really well, you need it. Wanna gig and improvise, play big performances of beautiful prepared works alongside talented and devoted people? You need it. Just wanna play? All you need is an instrument and a song and you're doing it!
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  19. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    Does the ukulele count?
     
  20. Arnold_J_Rimmer

    Arnold_J_Rimmer Probationary member

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    Ladies and gentlemen, listen to this man. @robot zombie's comments are very insightful, particularly about the role of music theory. The theorist is a reverse engineer and is too often prescriptive, rather than merely descriptive. A musician does not need to be a great theorist (or even be able to read music) to be a great creator. Humans made music without it for thousands of years.

    Incidentally, this pre-empts what I'll be writing about in the near future: The impact that notation and modal theory had on Gregorian chant. While it paved the way for what was to come, it was a partially destructive force on what had gone before.

    Edit: There are those who'd argue that music is ineffable, that it can only be self-referenced and that any attempt to systematically analyse it is a waste of time. Who was it that said that writing about music is like dancing about architecture?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021

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