System Synergy - Special Sound

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by atomicbob, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    Your plug in strip uses a Varistor or MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor).
    These devices 'absorb' high voltage spikes and can sometimes absorb too much and 'die'.
    When this happens they can become a noise source.

    They usually can be replaced but to do this requires electronic technical experience.

    JJ
     
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  2. LauSing2

    LauSing2 Facebook Friend

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    After further investigation, it seems that it's more than just the power strip. The level of static noise seems to be dependent on the RCA cable used between the Saga and the Jot. I have 4 RCA cables and have tried all the possible combination, and w/ Jot on high gain the noise varies from very low (barely audible) with both the DIY Copper (Amphenol plugs) & Silver RCA (Furutech FP162 plugs), to moderate with the Silver Anticables 1M (http://bit.ly/2kDSgSB), to high with the Cardas Golden Reference 1M.

    The power strip still has an affect on the level of noise though, since very low goes up to moderate, and moderate goes to high whenever I plug it to the previously mentioned Atlas power strip coming from the APC SurgeArrest. But, in any case, static noise is still present. It only when I switch the Jot to low gain, wherein the noise is vastly reduced to almost inaudible levels, but is never as silent with the Yggdrasil/MoMB direct to the Jot. Has anyone experienced this? What could possibly be the problem here?

    These are the 2 DIY cables which seems to produce the least amount of noise. They're also the shortest of the 4 RCAs.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  3. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    Gain amplifies noise, too, and depending on the amp can also impact output impedance. I think it's a fairly common experience, I notice it when I'm using my Elears on my Vali 2 in High Gain. On my 700's I can use high gain and the pot at about 11oclock, and not hear noise. On my Elears at about 9:30 on high gain for a similar loudness, I can hear tube humming and vibration induced microphonics. On low gain, the Elears are silent unless I push the pot to the max, at which point I'd be going deaf anyways.
     
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  4. LauSing2

    LauSing2 Facebook Friend

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    @FallingObjects Thanks for bringing that up and sharing your experience since it's kind of similar in my case with the HD650 and the Utopia, wherein noise level is significantly lower with the HD650. The noise level I'm referring to above is, specifically with the Utopia at the end of the chain. Btw, noise level is pretty consistent regardless of the volume position on the Saga.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  5. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    My guess is it's the gain settings increasing the output impedance throughout the chain somewhere, and the noise showing on the more sensitive Utopias. The Utopias have about 80 ohms of impedance, so if output is much higher than 10-15 I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing system hiccups like what you're experiencing.

    Edit: Also, another thought. If you're feeling particularly adventurous, try wrapping your entire setup in aluminum foil (make sure it's actually aluminium metal, not tin), power cables included, and see if that does anything to the noise. If you happen to have a Faraday cage handy that'd be better, but ghetto'ing up your own.

    If it gets better, then it's probably just unsually high frequency overlap in that room. If it gets worse from wrapping it in foil, it could be the same issue, but just your wrapping job acting as an antennae instead of a shield. Either way you'll have something else to scratch off the list.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  6. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Room ambient level, headphone sensitivity and impedance, individual hearing (audiologist measurements) all influence at what level noise of a system becomes audible to a given individual in a specific listening environment. Beyerdynamic T70 with 102 dB/mW will reveal noise at 6 dB lower than an HD650 with 96 dB/mW as an example. Elsewhere in this forum I posted sensitivities for a number of common headphones.
     
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  7. LauSing2

    LauSing2 Facebook Friend

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    @FallingObjects I see. This rig is primarily used with the HD650, so I initially didn't notice it until now, since I was curious how the Utopia would do with the Sagaheim. But, I still can't understand why different cables would have such a big affect on the noise level though. Since, even with the HD650, the noise level is still significant depending on which cable is used. Would putting the Jot on low gain be the best option here?
     
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  8. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    This week's listening platform:
    20170216 SU-1 - Bifrost MB - Saga - Jotunheim - HD650.jpg 20170216 Headphone System List SU-1 - Bifrost MB - Saga - Jotunheim.png 20170216 SU-1 - Bifrost MB - Saga - Jotunheim - HD650 - cables.jpg
    Excellent sound, zero residual noise. I am listening in a very quiet environment ~ 30 dBC at the moment.
    The power cords are Conntek 25167 hospital grade connectors with unshielded cables. All very short. Approximately $15 / cable.

    Edited - unshielded cables - I confused these with some shielded versions I have.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  9. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    Jot is solid state, and Schiit's spec state fewer than 0.1 ohms of output impedance at low and high gain, so that shouldn't be affecting it. High gain is gonna be more useful for diagnosis purposes though, as it'll be amplifying the noise more than in low gain when no music is coming through.
     
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  10. LauSing2

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    @atomicbob Yes, but in this case, the level of noise is largely dependent on the cable being used. That shouldn't be the case, right?

    With the DIY cables, noise level with the Utopia, even with the Jot on high gain, is barely audible, while switching to the Cardas and the Anticable RCA raises it to annoying levels.
     
  11. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Mmm, I have the big brother version of that Furman, the Elite 20 PFi, utter overkill for me :confused:
     
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  12. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I have no experience with the cables you mention. I will however mention that the Audio Engineering Society had a meeting in the PNW section in which Steve Lampen from Belden gave a presentation on many aspects of cables, RCA cables included. There tend to be a number of issues with "audiophile" grade cables. Note @Garns sarcastic but unfortunately very true statement about "not to spec". In my lists you see only a few select RCA cables mentioned. I should also mention BlueJeans cables. They are well made, with performance that can be measured. So are Pyst from Schiit, Silver Sonic Air Matrix (pricey but worth it if you live in a salt air environment) and now most recently Worlds Best Cables Gotham GAC-2. Others have been not so great.
     
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  13. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    If it is doing the job, then it is not overkill.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  14. LauSing2

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    Thank you very much for all the insight. They've been extremely helpful, and very much appreciated! :)
     
  15. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Red eyes from too much anime

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    Gotham sells their cables by 'themselves'. Does WBC add anything extra?
     
  16. Dino

    Dino Friend

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  17. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    I like how the stack keeps getting taller and taller. Gives new meaning to Summit-Fi. :D
     
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  18. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    in reading the spec sheets of these Furman units, they don't appear to perform DC offset filtering like the Emotiva CMX-2.
    correct?
     
  19. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    WBC appear to be the final assemblers or a representative of the final assemblers. Gotham cable and the RCA connectors are made by other vendors.

    They do not perform DC offset filtering as far as I know. However Furman rack units have served me well in my road cases. I have not experienced issues with DC offset whether present or not. I never checked for it specifically in all the remote recordings I performed at the venues, many with questionable power. Most had issues with dimmer packs for the stage lighting. I was concerned only with capturing high quality, low noise recordings given multitrack setups. My tracks did not buzz unless there was a noise from a nearby light which emitted the sound mechanically to the mics. Even then I would use the mic polar patterns to minimize the issue.
     
  20. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    True... but it's so friggin' huge! I might as well mount some legs on it and turn it into a desk o_O
     
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