System Synergy - Special Sound

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by atomicbob, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    The answer depends:
    1. how noisy are the USB ports on the computer or laptop being used?
    2. how much resolution does the DAC have?
    3. what is the noise floor of the DAC using native USB compared to the DAC SPDIF or Toslink input?
    4. what is the scheduling jitter of the DAC USB driver?

    It is possible for a lower resolution DAC to minimize the differences between Singxer SU-1, Gustard U12 and Breeze DU-U8.

    I have in my task queue a measurement comparison of these three DDC with several DACs. Given my somewhat unpredictable schedule at the moment, completion may be weeks away or months away.
     
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  2. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I am going to defer the answer to that question to @Torq who has graciously agreed to give the Ross Martin PCM1794A DAC an evaluation when his schedule permits. He is much better at describing the nuanced differences than I. My general criteria is very simple. Can I listen for hours without getting annoyed? Does the auditory experience more feel realistic or more like the cartoon equivalent? Nuances beyond those coarse evaluations are above my auditory discrimination abilities.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  3. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I am not much of a cable fiddler. I tend to use lab grade components as they work both for digital connections and for measurements, though one must always pay attention to 50 vs. 75 ohm in the lab, especially when above the audio spectrum.
     
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  4. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    Yeah, I am interested in this. Can you post the pdf?
     
  5. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Atomicbob's Immersion Virtualization System - experimental guide - this is a starting point
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    We can set this up anytime now.

    While we're not quite ready to host any gatherings as we finalize furniture and decor, my office and listening rigs are setup now and I can get back to auditioning gear.

    So, anytime you want to let it out of your hands we can setup a time to get together and go from there. I'll shoot you a PM in a bit on that!
     
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  7. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    Thank you for sharing. I used to use a lot of Waves plugs in my mixing. I have dabbled with crossfeed in Jriver and 112dB's Redline Monitor (which seems to leave EQ intact, just narrows stereo image and lets you change angles and such). Sonarworks has been an invaluable tool in mixing and mastering. I don't think I'd use NX for work but you do have me curious about its potential for leisure playback. I am also relieved to see I am not the only one who finds +2 bass -2 treble the ideal tilt for enjoyable playback on a HD6x0. Flat is great for checking mix problems, much like an NS-10, but generally is going to fatigue.
     
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  8. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I'd rather use monitors in an acoustically treated space than Waves NX, but in certain location recording situations NX is a godsend. For recreational listening it is wonderful to my ears. Turn off the head tracker. That is really novel, high impressum initially, but gets old quick for recreational use. Focus instead on getting the head modeling set for your head, then adjusting room ambience and speaker position to suit your preferences. I agree about the tilt and listening fatigue. Last thing I want for recreational use. For recording check mix your comment is spot on. Production and Recreation are two different objectives.
     
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  9. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    The Ultron 7DJ8 (or PCC88) are 7v versions of the 6DJ8 (ECC88). They'll be "under powered" in the Vali2 I guess and I'm not sure if that's one of the reasons for the lower hum...
    Anyway, Ultron was a company that rebranded all sorts of tubes from the big wigs. There's hints to find from construction but it's mostly hit/miss. I paid about $8 each for 8 new in box tubes of two different makes so I couldn't care less whether they were great or not so great. They all sound fantastic, and for the price they're a steal. I'm not going to compare. Too scary :)

    I've had the opportunity to learn about the IVS and has run it fully setup in my two systems for a couple of weeks. For me, it's been revelatory. I've struggled with hard panned jazz recordings for a long time, and while Sonarworks mono monitoring helped out it had the drawback that it killed some of these recordings so that they sounded flat and dull. I couldn't hear any difference with Sonarworks alone so I decided to not purchase the license. Expensive for just a mono mixdown I thought.

    @atomicbob to the rescue!
    He recommended Waves NX to be combined with Sonarworks and introduced me to the IVS. The rest is history. It's all in the PDF for you to try.

    But I will say this:
    1. The IVS is my preferred way of listening with Lynx AES16, Yggdrasil, Mjolnir2 and HD800 as well as with ModiMB, Vali2 and HD650.
    2. I find it very hard to go back to not using the IVS.
    3. The IVS will live through potential hardware upgrades and provide benefit up through the chain.
    4. I do not feel the need for mono mixdown anymore.
    5. Comparing the cost for the IVS to some of the stuff I've bought over the years is embarrassing if I consider what you get for your money.
    6. IVS might not be for everyone. There's demo versions that will allow for a couple of weeks of testing FOC. How about that :)
     
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  10. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    One question for @atomicbob : can I ask why mixed phase? I had gone with linear out of paranoia (and no desire to try to compare phase settings) but I know the latency is doubled. Is mixed transparent for you?
     
  11. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    It was a balancing act given I am using a wet/dry mix of 75%. Nothing is hard and fast. Please experiment and report.
     
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  12. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    @atomicbob @Changeling Are you running it on high or low gain? Looks like low gain based on the knob position you have in your pic. Which do you prefer? Garns said low gain adds more feedback to the system and makes the tube less noticeable.
     
  13. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    High gain for me. I haven't compared, I just left it on hi after a session with HD800...
     
  14. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    I like the way high gain sounds but I can barely get past 7 o'clock on most of my music, which I believe might lead to channel balance.
     
  15. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    What headphones are you using? @Ash1412

    Also with the IVS you have -6db headroom (as a starting point) to avoid clipping in the subsequent stages. That might be part of the reason for @atomicbob turning the volume up on Vali2...
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  16. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    HD 650 so even less sensitive than HD800. I think my listening volume (at about 7 to 9 o'clock on high gain) is quite normal, perhaps even slightly loud but maybe I'm just too conservative about volume
     
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  17. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Low gain for me. I am very sensitive to even small amounts of residual hum which can be heard in my very low ambient environment of approx 30 dBC. Most listening environments will be at least 10 dB SPL higher than this such that residual any hum is likely to be masked. High gain elevates residual hum for any tube.
     
  18. k1arg

    k1arg Facebook Friend

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    Thinking about the combination of the sub-sonic bass eq boost and sonarworks in the IVS, are people using the additional eq for 'no limits' sonarworks profiles, or only the limited ones? It seems that the extra eq with a limited sonarworks profile ends up being pretty similar to a no limits profile by itself. Or am I overlooking something?
     
  19. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    I'm using the 'no limits' profile in Sonarworks with bass +2 and tilt -2.
    Furthermore I use Dmgaudios Equick EQ for sub bass enhancement.
    Works well, haven't compared with different profiles though
     
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  20. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    The 'no limits' compensation curve has no added roll of from 35Hz down which makes the SSBB (SubSonic Bass Boost) blend with the response curve of the HP's and the Sonarworks curves all the more seamless.

    When I was fussing with the SSBB curves both before and after the 'no limits' curves were available, the results were much less cumbersome (in terms of the dealing with the added roll off from 35Hz and lower) and 'better' with the 'no limits' curve.

    Of course all of this is dependent upon your system's capabilities and SQ preferences.

    JJ
     
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