T+A DAC 8 DSD: Digital breakthrough or snake oil?

I've heard rumblings about the sonic advantages of converting up to DSD512 via HQPlayer and outputting to this new T+A DAC. People are saying it matches or bests a good analog rig. It sounds like bull to me, but I haven't heard it.

There's a thread on CA about it: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...ogue-converter-8-direct-stream-digital-27935/

Personally to me it sounds like saying you could make SD video look better than film by upconverting it to 8k resolution, but I don't know all the technicalities involved here. Apparently the T+A is using a proprietary chipless DSD implementation.

Has anyone actually been able to get their ears on this? Is anyone even interested?

 

this's a good stuff. has preamp. but some guys only care about dsd-plus-some-number, wake up, buddies.

 

The only real information you have is what was encoded. The only way this method would work better is if the algorithm to convert the audio to whatever format the dac needed was better. Which is entirely possible, the cpu in even a modest laptop can run rings around most embedded processors so you can spare cycles to do more complex computations, smoothing, etc. Think of the difference between a good upscaler on a new 4K tv and one that's not so good. Still I think the danger with a lot of this (and decrapifiers) is in perceiving different as better through expectation bias.

 

Yes, I understand the idea of letting your source do the computations instead of the DAC, basically letting the DAC do nothing but basic conversion to analog. Still, you use the analogy of a 4K upscaler. No upscaler on the planet can present information that isn't in the original signal.

What's bugging me about this is that everyone who's heard it has said some variation of "DSD64 sounds meh, DSD128 sounds okay, DSD256 sounds pretty good and DSD512 sounds amazeballs!" But all they're talking about are upconverted files, some of which are the meh sounding DSD64. There are no native DSD512 recordings. So what is it about using DSD512 for playback only that makes it sound so much more amazing than the original file?

Didn't some people here do some DSD conversion for playback?

 

Heh T&A DAC...

 

I used HQPlayer to upsample to DSD256 when I had an Oppo HA-1. I thought that upsampling, along with poly-sync-ext and DSD7, sounded very good, at least better than without any upsampling.

 

Well, after recently building a music server for the task of upsampling to DSD512 for the T+A DAC8 DSD, count me as a believer.





Using JRiver as a library interface and then dragging and dropping into HQPlayer, then playing back over Ethernet to an Windows based NAA which is connected to the DAC by USB.

As described in that CA thread, this DAC has two separate digital sections, one for PCM (chip-based) and the other for DSD (chipless). The analog out is shared between both.

Sending bit-perfect from JRiver via BNC 75ohm direct from the motherboard sounds very good. But, using HQPlayer with DSD output is something else.

 

What other DACs have you heard for comparison?

 

I understand the video upscaling analogy, but isn't that an entirely different beast?

In video it is much easier to discern differences and improvements. Audio is alot more subtle and operates on a different part of the brain. You can fool people alot easier using sound, which is why there is a helluva lot more snake oil in audio.

What I mean is, perception is a lot murkier in sound and I imagine "upscaling" music from lower quality sources would be a lot easier to pull off leading to the perception that it was "better".

Not speculating on whether its genuine or not.

 

Emotiva Stealth DC-1

I love this small inexpensive DAC. It uses a pair of AD1955 chips in differential mono mode. With a no nonsense opamp based analog output stage. As a preamp, it uses the Muses 72320 analog ladder volume control. I will never sell this DAC/preamp. Once I replace it with a DIY balanced preamp in the main system, it will go into my bedroom to replace my very old Camelot Technology DAC.

This is a good sounding 24/192 PCM DAC.

Marantz SA14S1

This is my SACD player which I also used as a USB DAC. It uses a pair of BB DSD1792A chips with a very good analog output stage. As a USB DAC, I fed it up-sampled DSD128 (5.6MHz) via a Beaglebone Black serving as an NAA from my HTPC using HQPlayer.

I'm a big fan of the DSD1792 Burr-Brown chips. This is a great sounding player.

Eastern Electric Audio DAC Junior

This is a China sourced DAC using a single ESS9018 DAC with a basic opamp output stage. Nothing special here, with just a single input (USB). I used this DAC with my Macmini via USB using JRiver PCM up-sampling to 352/384 and HQPlayer DSD up-sampling to DSD128.

It was my experience with this DAC that got me curious about using HQPlayer to up-sample to DSD512. The most obvious difference between up-sampled PCM and up-sampled PCM to DSD, was how leading edge transients were resolved. There was a hardness and brittleness evident with PCM which was absent with DSD up-sampling.

So, my experience with the EE DAC and Marantz SACD player, and now with the T+A DAC, has given me consistent results when up-sampling to DSD.

 

Thanks @Argopo! Hopefully soon you'll be able to hear a multibit DAC in your system to compare against the DAC8 DSD, because I think that will be the most competitive comparison.

 

I like the CA forums, but man is it hard to find relevant information. You have to slog through dozens and dozens pages before anybody talks about actually SQ. Most of it is hyper anal talk about technical jargon...

 

You know, every month I go onto Schiit's site to look at one of their DACs, either the Gungnir MB or the Bifrost MB. And I just can't click on checkout button.

One reason for not going with the Yggdrasil has been the repeated talk of 24/7 operation. I don't listen to my system everyday, and there are times I go weeks without listening.

 

@ColtMrFire Agreed, people there are more concerned with what cable they're using or how hot their processor is getting, the signal to noise ratio there is whacked.

 

I leave my Bifrost Multibit on 24/7 and I don't use my system everyday either. For the Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil, if you know you're not going to use your system for a few weeks, turn them off, and turn them back on a day or two before you think you'll use your system again. Not the end of the world.

 

I don't think there is a negative to leaving them on even when not using them for awhile, other than paying for the electricity waste, but that has to be pretty minimal. Another dollar on your electric bill.

 

The extra electricity used by leaving a DAC on 24/7 is supposed to be negligible from what I hear. I'm surprised people worry about it. You can probably buy a six pack at the end of the year from the money you saved by not leaving it on.

 

I wonder if they even enjoy music. I would hope so.

 

In my experience upsampling my nos metrum musette with hq player and jriver brought more details but it maded it sound artificial.

 

I used to use HQPlayer to upsample PCM to 176.4/192 (I dont have a DSD DAC), but found Bughead Emperor to sound better, even non upsampled. Upsampling in HQPlayer sounded more artificial in comparison. I havent heard PCM upsampled to DSD though so can't comment.