Tavish Designs "Vintage 6SL7 Phono Stage" Impressions

Loaner Impressions
Thank you Inoculator for the personal loaner, your generosity is appreciated.

Chain
Drop + Audio Technica Carbon VTA Turntable with Denon DL-103 -> iFi Zen Phono / Tavish Phono -> Stratus -> Audeze LCD-4 (RD modded)

I compared various albums with the two phono pre amps to have a reference point. You can see (above) my vinyl setup is low-end at the moment. Despite that limitation I could hear various differences between the two and definitely enjoyed the Tavish phono. I'm still listening to the Tavish for enjoyment, I'm not looking forward to downgrading when I box it back up tonight.

Considering the price difference, the comparison between the Tavish and iFi isn't fair but it's what I've got so here we go...

I found the following better with the Tavish:

• Much more refined
• Very smooth without losing anything
• Better detail retrieval
• More clarity (which is interesting considering it is also smoother)
• Sometimes resolves siblilance with some albums in my vinyl setup

Some other thoughts

• iFi has elevated bass in comparison. I don't consider this better nor worse, simply different. The Tavish doesn't sound bass light nor the iFi bass heavy.
• Tavish case has a practical look to it and is compact. iFi definitely went the sexy case route. I know the Tavish is available as a DIY project so you can make the case as sexy or pragmatic as suits your taste and patience.
• I didn't hear a clear winner in terms of tone. I liked both but neither had more enjoyable tone that stood out. The limits of my budget setup could be a factor here.

I found the Tavish to be a very noticeable and enjoyable step up from my iFi.

 

Glad you enjoyed it @loadexfa , I am excited to see what the folks on the loaner tour think of this.

I realized I never really wrote up my thoughts on this. It was my reference phono stage for the last couple of years, so I became quite familiar with it. I wrote about it when I was doing another phono loaner, so if folks are interested can checkout my thoughts here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...n-labs-phono-preamps.10320/page-2#post-337725

What really impressed me is how effective the JFET based MC input was with my Denon 103r. Having now stepped up to the Tavish Adagio with a SUT, it is really only a minor improvement at least in regard to how well it steps up the MC signal.

 

I've had my Tavish Vintage in my vinyl setup for six years now. Before that I was playing phono stage roulette and swapping in something new every six to eight months.

I've easily swapped in 30 different cartridges during that time including everything from low output Ortofon SPUs to very high output Stanton DJ carts. The loading is very flexible and has always delivered that smooth, laid back sound I enjoy. Listening sessions are never fatiguing and I often lose track of time and 7 or 8 hours pass.

 

Tavish Loaner Impressions:

Chain:
Technics SP10 mk2 (Soundsmith The Voice) > Tavish | Mani 2 | MMP3 > Modded EC 2a3 mkiv > JBL L99

First of all, thank you @Inoculator for letting us try his phono pre! I've been wanting to try more tube phonos since I heard the abbas one.

- tonal characteristic seems slightly dark and laidback
- macrodynamics seems a bit lacking, missing a bit of liveliness when comparing against mmp3 and mani 2
- microdyna seems kinda weak as well for the price point
- clarity is about the same i think between the three phono

For reference, I like really aggressive and energetic sound in all my gear, so this was the polar opposite of what I wanted. So this won't be missed but I'm glad I got to try it. Maybe tube rolling was needed to get the max out of it, or maybe blame it on synergy idk

 

Thanks to all who made this loaner possible. This is my first SBAF loaner and my first attempt at writing up my impressions. My usual chain:

VPI Scout w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MkII > Hagerman Cornet2 > Bottlehead BeePre > Merrill Thor monoblocks > Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2-EX

I built the Cornet2 myself, and it’s got bunch of vintage tubes and boutique parts, and many many hours of use, so this is not perhaps the most fair of comparisons, but I really wanted to see how my Cornet stacked up with another quality phono stage. I don’t have a MC cart (the Cornet is MM only), so I wasn’t able to try the higher gain settings.

I listened to some recordings I’m very familiar with and often use to evaluate gear:

Miles - Kind of Blue

Joe Jackson - Body and Soul

Spoon - Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga

Philip Glass - Mishima

I started with the Tavish, which I let warm up for several hours before listening. My first impression was very positive; bass and drums had body and pop, mids clear and relaxed. I’m sensitive to too much or unpleasant highs, with cymbals being the real test, and they sounded good, if maybe very slightly hairy. I then had to do a bunch of unplugging and reconnecting, and then rely on my always suspect audio memory. A better way of doing A-B comparisons is really what’s called for here. That being said, the Cornet was quite noticeably better in most regards. The stage increased in size, and it was as if a veil had been lifted. Separation and dynamics were markedly improved. Lows were slightly tighter and highs clearer.

The Tavish is no slouch however. It’s a nice sounding bit of gear, and I’d be curious to see what could be squeezed out of it with some old stock tubes. For now, I’m happy with the Cornet, at least until I feel the inevitable need to drop some zany money on something else!

 

Big thanks to @Inoculator for sharing his personal equipment with us! It was fun getting to hear this phono stage and add to the ol' mental rolodex of gear.

I think once dialed in, the Vintage is a great intro to tube phono stages. For those not wanting to drop a ton of money into their systems, it could even be a final phono stage.

This testing was done over a period of days swapping phono stages back and forth.

Here's the system: Denon 301 MkII (LOMC)/Ortofon VMS 20E (MM) > Technics SL1200 MkII with pure silver litz cartridge and tonearm wiring > Tavish Vintage/Audio Electronics PH-1 DJH/Allnic H-1202 > Icon 4 Zen > maxxed out Elekit TU-8800 > modified Klipsch Quartet speakers (or for headphones replace Elekit & Klipsch with ZDS & various Sennheisers).

I started the comparison with the stock tubes and my daily driver Denon 301 MkII cartridge, using the stock loading on the Vintage (it's set for a DL 103 cart and the 301 has similar requirements) and utilizing the MC input. With all stock tubes it wasn't the best. Sounded grainy and congested, flat compared to my daily driver Allnic H-1202. I had let it warm up for an hour ahead of time just to make sure. I played an entire album and then replaced the input tube with a vintage RCA 5691 red base and let it warm up again. Things improved dramatically. The music happened with much more ease, it didn't sound like it was fighting to get out. The 3D staging opened up and the graininess was greatly reduced. Now we're getting somewhere.

I swapped the 2 rear tubes with a pair of RCA 5691 red base I have and didn't notice a big difference. So in my system the input tube made a huge difference, but the 2 back tubes not so much. Maybe my opinion would be different with a longer-term evaluation.

I swapped over to the Ortofon cart so that I could compare with the Dennis Had designed Audio eElectronics PH-1 DJH, which doesn't have an MC input and the only SUT I have on hand is just uh, let's say not good. Don't get the base model Lundahl transformers.
I'd say the Vintage gets you most of the way to the PH-1. PH-1 still wins in musicality, staging, naturalness, but comparison is the thief of joy. In isolation and when not making unfair comparisons to things outside of its price bracket, the Vintage is a nice sounding phono stage that many would be happy with. That it includes the ability to use LOMC without needing an external SUT is a huge mega-bonus.

Moving on to the Allnic H-1202, it stomps both of these phono stages, but it should given the price point. It's dead quiet, no congestion, the music flows easily and is crisp. The H-1202 is not quite as good as the model which replaced it, the current model H-5500 but it's close enough that I haven't felt inclined to spend the extra money to upgrade. The upgraded power supply on the H-5500 just takes it a touch, a smidge, farther.

Speaking of moving to the Ortofon cartridge, when I initially plugged it in the sound was soft, muddy and terrible. I looked through the Vintage manual and found that in stock form the dip switches on the MM side were factory set to 47 pF while the recommended load for the Ortofon is 400 pF. I turned it off, let it cool down, popped the hood, flipped some switches and gave it a shot. The Vintage maxes out at 300-something pF (I no longer have it here to get that number) so it was perhaps not exactly what was recommended. Upon playing records again though, the sound was totally fixed and so, so much better.

I'm a huge tube Belieber and I view the Vintage as a great way for people to see what all the fuss is about and why they should switch to a tube phono preamp, without having to spend a crapload of money. Tubes are the answer and I hope we can convert more people over. The grass really is greener over here. For $700 + shipping you can have a very nice little preamp that, if you're used to solid state phono preamps, just might rock your world.

 

First, I want to thank @Inoculator for generously giving me the chance to listen to this phono stage. It's probably not something I would have otherwise had the chance to hear, and I really enjoyed the short time I had to spend with it.

Second, I want to apologize for how long it's taken to post this. I had to travel immediately after the short weekend I spent with the phono stage and now I've finally made the time to sit down with my notes and get this written up properly.

I made all comparisons on my main 2-channel stereo, with consistent equipment from the turntable on: Schiit Sol, Schiit Saga (OG), Russian Tung-Sol tube, Schiit Vidar, and Vandersteen 2c speakers. My primary comparison was to an older Schiit Mani. I listened with both a Grado Prestige Gold and a Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge, with the Grado cart getting most of the hours. As these are both MM carts I was only able to test the MM portion of the phono stage. I used the provided tubes for all listening as well.

Before I started listening I opened the cover and looked over the dip switches for the moving magnet stage and based on the manual everything was at the default settings, which were reasonable for both of my cartridges. I did all my listening at these default settings.

I really liked the way this unit looked in my system. The black and silver/gray finish and somewhat utilitarian design were a good fit for the rest of the system, particularly the look of the Sol.

In listening, the phono stage sounded fairly neutral, maybe slight midrange emphasis. Bass was solid but did not have a huge amount of slam. The overall sound could be described as smooth; not in a way that really hid or smeared detail, but in a way that was very easy to listen to for an extended period. Total resolution was maybe a little shy of the Mani on my system. Highs were clear without harshness. The phono stage also seemed relatively insensitive to surface noise.

In my system the Tavish phono stage had great synergy with the Grado cartridge. In contrast the Nagaoka cart came across as a little harsh in listening, which I don't perceive with the Mani. So with the Grado cart I would put this phono stage above the Mani on my list, and with the Nagaoka, just below. Either way, I could have happily kept this in my system for the long run.

 

I'm going to repurpose this thread to be about Tavish phonos in general, as I don't think there's sufficient reason to make a separate thread about each model.

Thanks to a killer deal on USAM, @Inoculator ended up with a second Adagio, which I snagged from him immediately. He came down in person to deliver it today (it helped that I had a piece of gear for him to pick up as well), and I've spent the day listening to it with both of my carts, the Technics ECP-205CIIL MM and the AT33ML/OCC MC. My full chain is:

Yamaha PX-3 turntable with the above carts->Tavish Adagio->Schiit Saga+->Adcom GFA-555 II power amp->NHT SB-3 speakers

The Adagio is the top of the line Tavish phono. It uses six tubes, 5751 (x3), 6267/EF86 (x2), 12AU7A (x1), and a mix of active and passive RIAA equalization. The power supply is entirely separate from the phono stage, and the loading options are on dials on the front of the phono body (capacitance for MM, ohms for MC). Like the Vintage, the Adagio uses separate inputs for MM and MC, and in addition to the SE output also offers balanced out, which I did not use as my system is all SE. My model uses a Jensen JT-347-AXT 1:12 SUT for the MC side, and has an upgraded solid state power supply.

I'm coming from a Mani 2, which I consider to be the best phono I've owned up to this point. For easy comparison, here is a quick summary of what I see as the best qualities of the Mani 2:

-Cavernous soundstage and sense of near infinite space
-Excellent separation of instruments
-Propulsive low end

The Mani 2 has other positive qualities, but to me those are the most noteworthy and the things I most love about that particular phono presentation. In comparison, the Adagio's soundstage is significantly more intimate, and instrument separation is more dependent on the capabilities of the cart (my AT33 excels at this aspect, the Technics is not as good). Listening to the dense mix of "Touch of Grey" on the Grateful Dead's In The Dark, the Mani presented this track as extending beyond the back wall of my room, with each instrument neatly placed in its own space and easy to focus on individually. The Adagio brings everything in closer, and even with the AT33 I couldn't quite dive deep into the mix in the same way as I could with the Mani. Instead, the sound was a little more holistic (sorry for the vague descriptor), in that it felt more like a group of musicians playing in the same room instead of the Mani which could be likened to each musician being in their own separate sound booth. Neither is right or wrong, just different presentations.

The low end presentation is also significantly different. The Mani 2 is almost like a jackhammer, determined to give you the absolute most slam for your money. The Adagio is definitely more reserved, even the bass on a track like "Give Life Back to Music" from Daft Punk's Random Access Memories doesn't slam so much as swing, with exceptional detail and texture but not the propulsive drive I find so addicting in the Mani 2. That doesn't mean the Adagio cannot pull out low end, it definitely can. It's just not going to have the heart stopping slam and start/stop on a dime dynamics that solid state can offer.

The star of the show to my ears is the midrange (not to say that the Adagio is mid-centric, the specs say 20Hz – 20kHz and I don't hear any early roll off), with an incredible amount of nuance and detail, especially with vocals, that brings out a vivid emotional reaction in me. The vocal inflections in "A Simple Twist of Fate" from Bob Dylan's Blood on the Tracks are so powerfully reproduced that I sat in front of my speakers slack jawed. Guitars have a lovely ring and resonance. Taking another Grateful Dead track, "Friend of the Devil" from the MoFi 45 RPM reissue of American Beauty, the bluegrass stylings of the guitar ring out with exceptional clarity and again the subtle inflections in Jerry Garcia's voice add another dimension to the track.

The more I listen to the Adagio, the more I think these subtle nuances are really what's setting it apart from the other phonos I've heard. There is as much detail and resolution here as one could ever hope for, but the presentation is not showy so it's not necessarily immediately evident. The more I listen, the more I catch small things that I've never noticed before in either analog or digital formats (and I know these songs very well). Something as simple as a finger gliding up a fret or a quick flubbed note are much more apparent but at no point does the Adagio hit you over the head with this information and it impresses most when you're giving music the proper attention.

In case what I wrote above about the bass gives the indication that the Adagio is pillowy, soft, or slow, nothing could be further from the truth. Drum snares have excellent snap, electric guitars have bite, bass is not an afterthought at all. The presentation is extremely well balanced, with the same level of detail apparent across the entire FR, I just gravitate to the mids on this because I am so entranced by how the Adagio reproduces vocals. There's a sense of liquidity the Adagio imparts, like the music is flowing from the speakers with total ease and accuracy. I've purposely avoided using the term "musical" or "musicality" because I think it would take a truly incompetent phono to not present music on vinyl in a musical way. I will say though that the Adagio offers a very realistic, fluid, swinging presentation that gets me more involved with the music I'm listening to. It's more of a chameleon than the Mani. If the recording is relaxed and smooth, the Adagio is relaxed and smooth. If the recording is raucous and vibrant, the Adagio is raucous and vibrant. The Mani imparts more of its own character on every record.

Now, is it fair to compare the Adagio to the Mani 2, when the configuration of a new Adagio like the one I have is nearly 19 times the cost of the Mani? Well, I consider it a compliment to the Mani that it possess qualities that a phono so far out of its price range does not. The main reason I went looking for another phono at all was because unfortunately in the MC configuration, the Mani amplified surface noise and tics and pops to such a degree that it completely overtook the music. Switching to the MM mode ameliorated this to a point, but not enough for my tastes. Thankfully, the Adagio plays much nicer with my less than pristine records. It doesn't eliminate surface noise and tics and pops, but now they do not overtake the music itself, which is huge.

Full Adagio specs here: https://tavishdesign.com/products/adagio-vacuum-tube-phono-stage-mm-mc?variant=31693089144918

 

@Erroneous, the 5691 is not a drop-in for the 6SL7, as it has twice the heater current. its not compatible with the tavish vintage.

to quote scott reynolds via another forum,

"The 5691 is not a direct substitute for the 6SL7. The 5691 has a 0.6 amp heater current rating (instead of 0.3 amp) and won't work in the Vintage. Sorry about that."

heres the spec sheet witha 6SL7 to compare:
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/084/5/5691.pdf
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/6/6SL7GT.pdf

im new here, but ive been a fan since the tavish thread started.

ceylon

 

@ceylon It worked and it made it sound better. I know Scott Reynolds said it doesn't work, but I did it, it worked, and it improved the sound

 

sure, lotsa tubes will improve the sound; more importantly, it didnt take out the power transformer, which is enough of a risk with the 5691 that its incompatible.