The Stax I thread

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by knerian, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    I am sure this is pretty ignorant question but I know nothing about electrostatic headphones: is there anything like entry level Stax setup that would let me experience the goods without flattening my wallet too much?
     
  2. AudioThief

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    I got into electrostats via the SRS 3100 (L300 + 252s). It wiped the floor with all my dynamic headphones for my own personal tastes. That includes HD650 FYI.

    The strength of the L300 I would say is very fun and energetic sound signature, does all genres well imo except obviously bass music. Technically on a very high level compared to dynamic headphones in many areas (detail, resolution, speed). Soundstage not very big.

    I think getting a used SRS 3100 would be my recommendation for cheapest "in". There are probably many vintage units floating around like SRM 1 mk2 pro with lambda pros or nova sigs etc but I think the L300 is probably a better purchase.
     
  3. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    Another option is the Koss ESP950. You can usually get the used for $450-$550, or new sometimes on Amazon for $600-$700.
     
  4. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    You betcha. The current entry level system is off-the-shelf suitable for exactly your situation.

    The SRS-3100 system is a surprisingly good-sounding start, for about the price of an LCD-2C all in. Sure the amp is small, and won't drive pricey the SR-007 properly, but it's plenty enough to let you hear some of the good stuff from the L300.

    The L300 will also scale a bit higher later, if you snagged a more powerful amp, which is a bonus.

    It's a really good system for the price, if you want to get a taste- and easily available without having to haunt ebay. It will come out of the box sounding decent.

    (Having listened to a couple of the new Lamdas, I'm quite shocked how good the L300 sounds, actually.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  5. gefski

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    Don't know what your source is, but the entry level Stax described will continue to show its pedigree with future upstream improvements.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  6. AudioThief

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    I want to second this point about scaling. I actually just went through with upgrading my amp to the 727ii and the L300 via the 727 is really good. To my ears it takes away some hardness/shimmer up top which is my one drawback of the L300, adds a tad bit of resolution and imaging to my ears. Considering how good L300 via the 252s is, L300 via a powerful amp would be end game worthy for many people imo. There is little to fault the L300 for.
     
  7. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Excuse the crappy phone picture (should take a better one some time), but behold this slightly scruffy little marvel (Sys for scale):

    [​IMG]

    This is a prototype Mjölnir Octave 2. It's more or less the same as the production model, except it's in a project case rather than the sleek box that the "real" model is crammed into. As a result, it apparently has bigger power smoothing caps, but everything else should be the same inside.

    It's really nice. Right now, the only e-stats I have handy are some SR-303, which came as part of an SRS-3030 setup. The 3030 setup sounds like all the e-stats tropes- a bit light or thin, very ethereal and maybe some upper-mid shout. Still a really enjoyable listen (the detail! the staging!), but unusual.

    Plugging the SR-303 into the Octave 2 changes things a lot. Suddenly, it's fuller, warmer, more substantial. It's more than a marginal difference. It's still detailed and effortless, but far more tangible. I didn't think these particular Lambdas could sound quite like this. Let there be bass- not excessively so, but in the sort of proportions that make sense. I think having a CCS on the gain stage is helpful here.

    I don't feel like I need much time for FR "brain burn" when swapping from more conventionally-voiced dynamic headphones. It's very pleasant listening as a pairing. I haven't managed to make it struggle to keep up with anything complex yet.

    Given that my other option was to get a 727 and carry out the feedback fix*, this is a nice option. I wouldn't have thought it'd have quite enough power to get the best out of an SR-007, but for the boxy ear brigade, it's a worthy contender. Do note that it's pro bias only, though.

    Actual chain in use is a Gen 5 Gungnir Multibit balanced into Octave 2, driving SR-303 with freshly replaced ear pads. It's a bit of a budget gem, truth be told.



    * More probably pay someone with neater soldering and more experience, I suspect.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  8. I_want_all_the_tacos

    I_want_all_the_tacos Friend

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    So you would say this amp change was a night and day difference? I have the L300 now and thinking of grabbing the L300 Limited, hoping it will get close to L700 level sound quality. My only complaint about the Lambda series has been that the bass lacks the type of texture a good planar has. It isn't necessarily "one-note", but it is kind of thuddy rather than detailed and precise. I don't have a problem with the quantity, though on the warmer side would also be good, but I am curious if getting something like the Octave or any of the Mjolnir/KG stuff would be a substantial difference from the 252S I am currently using?
     
  9. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    No I wouldn't, because "night and day difference", along with "next level" are meaningless cliches best left to the fine folks of Head-Fi.

    The Octave 2 is a noticeable step up over the 313 though, bringing the mids and and especially bass more in line with a reasonable FR. I sort of wish I had access to an SRM-353 and some L-300/L-500 right now to mix and match, as there are obvious questions they could answer. I don't trust dim and distant memories/guesswork here.

    That said, I'd be fairly confident that the SRM-252s isn't even in the same ballpark, especially power-wise. The 252s is a solid starting point for an entry-level system, but easy to exceed. Even a lot of the Lambdas will cause it to run out of steam.

    Sadly, I don't think there are many UK-based SBAFers with a ton of spare midrange Stax stuff that I could ask to borrow, though, so I can't say much more for now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  10. AudioThief

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    Based on my own experience listening to L300 and 007 via 252s via 727II, I would not recommend the 252 for anything else than L300. And even then, I would definitely understand if someone were to upgrade their amp specifically for the L300.

    @Kattefjaes , if you are considering a 007, I would like to give you my impressions of the 727II without feedback mod. I honestly believe that the stax mafia has severly underestimated the 727II. I'm not going to sit here and write pages upon pages about how fantastic it is - I lack the experience with other amps. What I will say is that the step up from 252s is way bigger than I would ever expect from an amplifier.

    The 007 via the 727II is 100% an endgame setup. It sounds absolutely incredible. I am sure the Carbon/BHSE etc are better, but at one point one has to question how much could possibly be improved upon. It really is fantastic sounding.

    So, if your prototype Mjolnir is comparable to 727II (450V), my personal opinion is that you should not take too much stock in what the stax mafia is saying in terms of amps for the 007. Yes, it needs a lot of power. No, 727 levels of power is not "too little power".

    @I_want_all_the_tacos

    As I'm sure you are aware, estat bass will never touch dynamics in bass quantity. The 007s to my ears has significantly more bass than the L300, and while the sound got a bit fuller/large scale when I run the L300 via the 727, it still has that lightweight, nimble feeling. I suspect all the lambdas will have that quick, nimble sound - lacking weight.

    For estats, I think you should consider 007 or 009 for a more weighty, impactful sound.
     
  11. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Why would I suddenly be after SR-007, immediately after buying an amp that I'm fairly sure isn't appropriate for SR-007?

    As it goes, I did hear a stock 727 with random Lambdas, and the bass sounded a little more woolly than I'd prefer. If I wanted an ambivalent bass presentation, I have my HD650s :)
     
  12. AudioThief

    AudioThief Acquaintance

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    I was asking if you were considering a 007, not 727. You just got a new amp, so would be a bit strange for you to be looking at other amps.
     
  13. AudioThief

    AudioThief Acquaintance

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    .... right. You just reminded me why I never bother to post on this forum.
     
  14. joch

    joch Friend

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    I almost got the really slim version of this to try. In my email with Spritzer, I asked out of curiousity if it can drive the 007. He basically said that it lacks the power of the more powerful offerings, but can give it a good stab for the price.
     
  15. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Yeah, makes sense. I think if you were in the market for an 007, you'd be assembling a slightly more "endgame" rig and budgeting for a slightly more serious amp.
     
  16. joch

    joch Friend

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    Unfortunately, the next level up would be quite a bit more....as are the Stax varieties.

    I would have probably gone through with the Octave if I know I would just stick with just the Lambda series. Still I'm curious how it would handle a 700 or even a 009.

    It's not a bad price. And I believe there's no tax/customs if you're in Europe?
     
  17. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    There is- Iceland is in the EEA, not the EU. Generally, national customs will charge you tax on import, plus whatever duty applies (typically a small additional percentage - I think it was 1% here).
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  18. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    I paid 21% VAT+ Duty for my KGSSHV Carbon.

    Got the amp after being in Customs for 2 weeks. Had a quick listen with my brand new 007Mk2 before putting the baby to bed and then settled down at 9 PM for my first proper listen of my newly assembled TOTL Stax rig.

    1.5 songs in and the left driver sounded like it had died. Mournfully put the headphones away for a day. Checked again tonight and the left driver still makes music but at 20% of the loudness of the right driver.

    Does an 007 channel imbalance go away after a while? I'm really tempted to just send these back for a straight swap.

    Not a good start to the Stax experience :(
     
  19. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Oh, that sucks, sorry to hear that.

    Are they new or used? If new, I'd consider returning them for another pair. Otherwise, the stuff below notwithstanding, I'd be thinking about refunds.



    If you can sneak into a dealer and try then on a known good offical Stax amp, even a lower-end one, that might be helpful before shipping them back. It'd be good to confirm that the problem is definitely in the headphones.

    (You never know what gets dislodged in shipping, after all. Without one of those excessive g-force telltales stuck to the box, you have no idea if someone flubbed a catch and dropped the amp box on a loading dock etc..)

    You can try leaving them playing for a while- sometimes you need to run them for a while before the channel balance comes good (don't ask me why). We're talking days rather than hours there, though.

    I remember reading that a gentle tap on the housing can sometimes help, as the diaphragm can stick to the stator. Another thing to try is to short the pins of the plug (just use your finger) to discharge the headphones

    I don't think you even want to think about re-coating the diaphragm- that sort of thing should be completely unnecessary with something you just bought, anyway.

    TL;DR- check them on a "normal" Stax amp, so you can rule out your amp having been damaged in transit (unlikely, but hey). If they don't come good after leaving them playing for a while, I'd consider just returning them for replacement or refund (depending on whether they're new or used).

    There are various things that can go wrong with drivers, poorly soldered bias wires and so forth, but at this point, I don't think you should try to take that sort of worry on. If the obvious/easy stuff doesn't help, you are probably better off with a new pair.

    Maybe @sorrodje or @shipsupt have some useful things to add? I think they might know a bit more than me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  20. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    Posted this in my profile first, but I think this is a better place to do it:

    Stax SR-009S http://webcache.googleusercontent.c.../products/sr-009s/+&cd=13&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=hu
    Fujiya Avic Spring Headphone Festival is scheduled for 28 & 29 of April, so maybe we'll see this new headphone there.
    Also, according to this translation made by @Arnaud on HF, "Things that were previously at mk 2 stage may involve into mk 3 for instance.", so we'll probably see an SR-007 MK3 this year too
    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sta...d-for-spring-2017.829843/page-4#post-13130037

    Honestly, I hope the S is for "Superior to the 009 and any revision of the 007, modded or not, with any amp on the planet" and not for "Sidegrade with a different color and earpads". Also, being Stax's 80th anniversary, it would be a tad underwhelming to not have an "SR-011" at the end of year (009S will be the 10th flagship)...let's see how it goes!
     

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