The Worst Sounding Headphones You've Ever Heard And WHY

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by E_Schaaf, Aug 24, 2021.

  1. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Yes, I think a change of the thread title to emphasize the 'WHY' may be necessary to really narrow in on what the point of this type of discussion should be.

    Stock TH900 limited edition non-red cups might take the cake for me. Straight-up sinful, killed the only strength of the TH900 (bass) and did nothing to help awful treble peakage. They sealed off all but one baffle vent so the dynamics feel choked too. Like purposefully breaking the wrists of the world's strongest powerlifter. Worst possible choice of stock earpads. Stock cup stuffing that does literally nothing.

    But possibly #1 for me is the Audio Technica AP2000Ti which nobody has heard and (i think) was recently discontinued. Got a big parallel piece of plastic right behind the driver that closes flow off from the rest of the cups and a fiberglass donut to throttle outlet from that piece into the cups perpendicularly. Taking it out made me itch and gave me a rash. The backwave that does escape the plastic assembly reflects like crazy in the metal shells... Unmoddable without a dremel. Even though they use some of the world's greatest earpads that mate well with the vast majority of headphones I've tried them on for their gently sloping treble and bass punch, on the AP2KTi headphone, it's a sharp W with peaks in the upper bass, middle mids, and mid-treble. fuzz, honk, and tizz. JFC. The drivers seemed otherwise technically capable. WTF???

    All bowl pad Grados hurt me consistently, which is sad becuase I generally love Grado's approach to design and I've taken some inspiration from them too. Definitely a 'near-miss' with simple fixes. Probably why they had a long history of mods before I was a part of the hobby. I bet with some alternative driver venting you could get a usable tone while keeping the bowl pads... but I don't care to cough up the cash to find out.

    I've always religiously hated HD800 but recently heard a low SN pair on a synergistic amp that I found tolerable or even approaching enjoyable and thus have taken them off my list for worst of all time. Generally though I think sunken baffles, uber-wide earpads, and reflective meshes are a bad idea for mids (Beyer T1 another example). I hear the transients as more fucked up than any 600 series. Soundstage tries to be 'fake but fun' but isn't actually fun... just fake.

    A lot of headphones strike me as profoundly mediocre, but few deeply offend and physically pain me as much as these.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
  2. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Senn HD600 on Audio-GD Equipment back in 2012

    Had the old Audio-GD Compass 2 Amp/DAC back in 2012 when I was a Grado fanboi. Someone lend me their Senn HD600 and I thought it was terrible. It was flat, boring, non-engaging, and wondering WTF people were buying this when Grados were so much better. Oh I should had known.......

    Grado SR-325i
    Headphone so bright that I want to smash my head against the wall and go visit a glory hole. f'ing hate it. That started my reasoning that not everything with Grados is all that.

    People in the IEM world claim that there was a revision of the IER-Z1R that fixed some of the issues of the first run IER-Z1R (which I think the former loaner was from the first run).

    Why pay this much though when the M7/M9 are much better deals if you like the Sony sound?
     
  3. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Guilty! Oh the Changstar days…..
     
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  4. Qildail

    Qildail Friend

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    HiFiMan HE400S - I took a flyer on them for the most recent Prime Day. I really wanted to like them (they would have been my first planars), and they have generally good impressions here and elsewhere.

    I just couldn't get over the 8K-ish spike. On my iPhone it was noticeable; with my Asgard 3 it was present and accounted for; with the Magni Heresy it felt like I was being pinged with a pipe against a metal can on my head.

    They probably would have made decent mobile headphones, but they seemed awfully big to me for that purpose. So back they went; and I've returned to my Sennheiser 280, 598, 650 rotation for lack of better options that fit my odd ears and not so odd budget.

    This is a very close second.
     
  5. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I think you are expecting too much from people, but I changed the thread title as requested. I don't think hardly anyone here or elsewhere has much of any idea why God awful sounding headphones sound the way they do. At best I think you or any of us can guess. Acoustics are very complicated.

    And I think a lot of the time with the headphones I dislike the most it just comes down to the driver. For years people said that the brightness of the HD800 was caused by reflections in the ear cavity. But low and behold, Drop just made a neutral HD800 with no ear cavity absorption materials. It was all modifications to the driver. The og HD800 measured clean as hell in the treble so blaming resonance never really made sense anyways. Though adding absorbing materials did help for whatever reason. Likely absorbing certain frequencies or delaying them and thus changing the FR.

    How did John Grado turn the best electrodynamic of all time and still maybe the most neutral into the peaky resonant mess that was his lineup back in the day SR60 up to RS1, all bright and resonant as hell? How did he make the Hemp somehow more neutral and cleaner? They all have the same cup design and acoustics, it's all just tweaks to the driver.

    I don't think any mods have ever made a Beyer DT880 or T1 neutral, it's the damn driver. That's not to say that acoustic implementation isn't a problem though, it's both.

    As for the thread topic, there are too many headphones I dislike to make a list.

    I dislike all electrodynamics except the Joe Grado HP1000 which I still have issues with. They generally sound dull, peaky and resonant to me. And I have never agreed with the common statement that electrodynamics are "more resolving" than planar magnetics. In modding orthos, Ive heard them sound exceptional in many different ways that no commercial ortho sounds. I have heard them sound increidibly resolving, clean, airy, refined, nuanced, incredibly layered bass response, vocals that are so realistic it sounds like the singer is right in front of you, etc. I have yet to make an ortho that pulls all these traits together in one headphone though I'm getting close with my modded LCD-X.

    That's not to say that acoustic implementation isn't the problem as well. I think it's generally not even considered with electrodynamics, so you've got an unbalanced, poorly designed driver just thrown into random enclosures. Hence the random frequency response that sounds like shit.

    Orthos are generally damped very poorly with very little understanding, using bad materials, or materials put in the wrong places. I have yet to see an ortho that has good acoustic implementation, though Audeze seems to be getting better. It's taken them 10 years, but they're slowly paying more and more attention to acoustic implementation. The 2021 LCD-X is damped pretty well, though with an un-ideal material and a thick dust screen over the front of the driver that kills so much of the resolution coming from the driver. And they just revised it from the version @Vtory review with a poor damping choice. (I will write about this in the LCD-X thread)

    So I have too many complaints to make a list of headphones. I think most headphones are ill conceived with not enough research, not enough attention paid to the driver or the acoustic implementation. It takes a lot of work wo develop a well designed headphone and I think basically everyone but Joe Grado just doens't put in the work. They are interested in selling headphones more than they are interested in the persuit of an ideal, and at some point they just say "good enough to sell" and mass produce it. I think every headphone company is guilty of this. With the exception of Joe Grado who sat and tweaked his headphones for a long time using his ears and music to make them sound the way they do.

    Basically, I'd put every headphone on this list. There's no commercial headphone I could buy that I would be happy with. (that I know of). And I'm not completely happy with any of my modded orthos yet either, though I'm getting closer. I need to make my own ortho drivers. Hopefully someday...
     
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  6. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    Dang Rhythm - I was literally typing the following and thought I'd better keep quiet.

    The most polarizing headphone that one of my friends brings to the meets is/was his Grado HP-2 / HP-1. People write them off quickly, but for me - it is probably the best overall representation of what that type of headphone should be. It was rolled off at the bottom compared to the HD800, but they traded blows and I could only afford to own one. I chose the magic trick + comfort over the tried and true. Focal is finally building the drivers that I thought I would see, sooner rather than later, stuffed into headphone cups. Lots of challenges with small drivers and there really is no replacement for displacement.

    For headphones that actually cost some money and are disappointing - I would say the following:

    Sony MDR-Z1R / MDR-Z7M2 - I didn't get enough time with the Z1R, but it was slightly offensive to me, while the MDR-Z7M2 still wasn't anything special, it did less wrong - I would equate these to the Audeze LCD-1 in their overall "meh-ness". The Z1R was a little too spicy

    Meze Empyrean - Low-Fi Beats to Chill to?

    Raal SR1A - I am sorry, for I have sinned... The most amazing let down ever. Wonderful if it could fit my dang head and I paired it with my dual CSS SDX12"-ers. I just don't have a music collection without digital bass. But honestly, they are a very special product and everything Marvey has said about them is "A+" The most niche headphone next to the LCD-R an Electrostats

    Sony PFR-V1 - too difficult / painful to get full-range (20-20)

    Stax SR009 - The bags at my local supermarket pulled as tight as possible while someone sings the song on the other side... its like I'm almost there, but there is a f'ing plastic bag in the way.

    All the "Fancy Fostex'en" - TH900 Stuff. Just get a Klipsch HP-3 maybe? Neither are truly closed back. I don't have EV's or Maxx's madness of modding, so I just don't give-a about all these damn Fostexes

    Audioquest Nighthawk - I still own mine, Ev currently has them for possible modification, but the stock tuning is for special occasion only. Meanwhile - that driver is dope as f**k. Nobody talks about the split coil biodynamic. LINEAR EXCURSION BRUH.. I don't know the current hype slang. Dank Xcursion?

    All the romantic Audio Technicas. I know they have their following and I won't say much more than... I once HAD a W1000 and then I DIDNT. The W5000 and all the other woodies I've heard, kinda were more-or-less same same

    Shoot, basically every headphone sucks honestly. Why is that? UGH... PHYSICS. You'll end up strapping a speaker to your head before you get close to the playback anyone really REALLLY wants. It isn't hyperbole, even though I sound crazy, there just hasn't been enough innovation.

    The CRBN should be getting people hard as a doorknob right know. Quite a large driver without quite a few of the previous limitations in that technology.

    I really wish Rhythm could hear the LCD-R, but I don't think it's leaving my eyesight for a while. I'm really really REALLY struggling to keep myself in check, but IMO - it is the current least bad sounding headphone I quite possibly have ever heard.
     
  7. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I would never consider what we've seen from HD8XX as neutral. If anything it continues to prove my point that a sunken baffle is bad for mids. I have heard HD800 drivers transplanted into several other chassis' with no mid suck and no treble peakage. It's not the driver that makes the HD800 suck. I feel like we hit driver limitations way faster with HD600 series in comparison, because there's literally nothing that can be done to get good extension out of 6-series drivers - opposite problem there with poor drivers but decent implementation on the stock phones.

    I'm just ranting at this point (don't read this as a direct response to what you said @rhythmdevils , moreso some ponderings I wanted to get out), but I've played many different 50mm and 40mm dynamic drivers - either OEM, customized, or transplanted from existing headphones and concluded that the earpads and enclosure are in fact more important than the drivers themselves at least as far as tonal response goes - most driver characteristics can be 'worked around' with clever design. There should be no excuse for poor bandwidth in 2021, but linearity is a bit tougher... that said I think almost any driver can get close to flat at least thru the mids if put into the right shell. I'd love to take on the challenge of proving this point with a commonly recognized 'bad driver' - sounds like a fun proof of concept project! Or maybe I'll fall flat on my face - just another way to learn from mistakes :)

    As far as my limited understanding takes me, implementation with full-size planar magnetic drivers is more about driver treatment, driver construction/materials, and earpads, right? Because the driver itself takes up the majority of the baffle and chassis space unless we would consider 1kg+ heavy cans. The enclosures themselves have fewer parameters of adjustment because the driver itself makes up most of the weight/size/space, unless of course we're talking about small planar drivers in bigger shells like modern T50rp. Just guessing, but driver design and treatment are probably most of the bottleneck of the planar world (and I appreciate your dedication to righting the pervasive 'wrongs' we repeatedly saw from planar mfgs since the turn of the century), right? And with dynamic drivers that are far smaller than planar drivers, the choke is shell design. Maybe I'm ignorant and would feel differently if I tried to mod or make a planar today as opposed to a few years ago.

    Physics are just as much a limitation with loudspeakers, and arguably even more chaotic and hard to contend with in a live sound field than with headphones, which are more discrete and directly coupled to the head/ears. Is there not more control over almost every variable with enough trial and error and effort on headphones? I for one have a set of headphones I prefer over my own 2-channel system and over any sound system I ever heard while working HiFi retail for 3 years, at trade shows, at friends' houses, etc. ( Last edit, I promise - I would never universalize this preference but it's true for me. I wonder if it could also be true for others with different headphones too. Is it really futile?) And that's with the headphones driven direct from a laptop.

    I look around and I see stagnation everywhere. There's a profound lack of imagination in the industry - all the insider's I've met seem so jaded and depressed. Saying the bottleneck is physics or driver tech - while true to some extent... sometimes - also feels like a convenient excuse not to be creative.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
  8. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    Well, yes and... non-confrontationally (IMO) no.

    I too, have things such as the Andromeda or LCD-i4 that are neither correct or incorrect, but both offer an experience that I myself chose/choose almost every night of my life over my relatively decent 2 channel system(s). I love "live" music, hell - I still go out and dance when the world says OK, but ultimately - it is mostly reproduced on a electrodynamic system or you're in a concert hall doing that whole thang. At the end of the day, each technology has a finite limit in our physical universe. That is the ultimate no to your (pardon my insult) artsy farsty "non-creative" thing.

    The lack of innovation is driven by the ultimate lack of a need. The innovation in driver technology (Ask Mark Seaton) was at one point aimed in weaponization. He took his knowledge of focused sound waves and applied it to subwoofers for home use. Mil -> Civ

    Now with flat surfaces needing to recreate sound - we are seeing a shift back to needs. Audeze making me super proud with the medical move and then there are a few other companies working on making every surface a speaker. We ARE NOT important.

    Now, what you are doing is freaking awesome and what I love about where I live. You are innovating in what the future hobbyist of headphones is going to be. Creating better with what is available. Adding extra love to things that the corporations are forgetting. Because all we are now are an iphone + wireless earbud. Thats the REAL world outside of however many of us there are.

    Apologies for the grim take, but that has been the current path of the hobby in my eyes for a while and the people who belong building headphone will probably start winning the long game.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
  9. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    @rhythmdevils I wish there was a headphone that could make you happy.

    I hope Audeze makes LCD-R and CRBN tech affordable and available for me. Great posts too btw @M3NTAL

    @E_Schaaf Nice thread. Thanks for eloquently explaining how enclosure is half the equation. Id consider pads and absorbing materials as part of the enclosure as well, all channeling and filtering the drivers sound. Groovy Grado Hemp with its flat pads being a clear recent example of tuning by “enclosure”.

    Active users viewing thread lists HIFIMAN. lol,
    is that real or joke account? Sorry for dumping on HE-400i. Obviously not the worst headphone but easily the biggest disappointment for me. Honestly thought it was broken at first.

    Since I have too little knowledge to participate in the thread’s main aim of discussing why some headphones sound bad Ill iust continue to name particularly lame headphones.

    Like @purr1n I had a disheartening Grado mod: aftermarket drivers. Sounded reasonable since Grado’s dont sound great to begin with but have a certain unique flair to the way they render guitar that makes you wish you could own a perfectly modded set that fixed the very major foibles. Symphones v9 promised an upgrade for your Grado… But as it turned out doesnt have Grado’s magic and was also flawed. Unfortunately, I went full on and had a custom enclosure and cable made since this was something I wanted for a long time and wanted it done right as recommended by Head-Fi. Big expensive disappointment.
     

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  10. scblock

    scblock Friend

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    I would put the DT990 premium/edition 600 Ohm high on my list of bad headphones. I bought them to try with the Crack (match high impedance with high OI) based on others talking them up, and their resolution, detail retrieval, etc. But I don't hear any of that.

    Regardless of which amp I drive it from (Crack w/speedball, S.E.X. w/C4S, Liquid Platinum, Lyr 3, Asgard 2, SW51+, Modi 3) I don't like the sound. Bass is emphasized but not full, rich, or natural. It feels boomy/hollow, almost like a bad room mode, and doesn't extend to sub-bass. The mid-range seems almost missing, and the lower highs are grating, with a nasty edge on them. On the whole it just sounds thin and dull. I love Tegan and Sara but pretty much can't listen to them on these phones because of the weird highs. No amount of EQ can fix it.

    I don't know whether it's the drivers, cups, velour pads, or a combination, but it's generally unpleasant.

    In addition to the wonky frequency response and timbre they have almost no presence or physicality at all. The only way to get any sense of that at all is to crank the volume to unsafe level and it still comes nowhere close to HD650, Elegia, etc. It just sounds loud and messy.

    Comfort on head is good, but then the cable is non-replaceable weird rubbery trash. It feels entirely like a miss.
     
  11. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Hifiman HE-5XX

    5XX was advertised as the direct descendant of the old beloved HE-500 at a much lower price, so I preordered! Purr1n said we were dopes for believing that a cheap version of HE-500 would be sold. We were indeed duped! Sounded like FM radio played over a bluetooth portable speaker.

    5XX used the cheapest magnets and lacked basic refinement. Seemingly the tactic of negligible price cutting for product positioning, justifying higher tier HIFIMAN at much higher costs. Was the HE-500 hyperbole a complete sham or was it an attempt to besmirch OG Hifiman so people wouldnt look to the the past for reasons why HFM fails today. :D

    The reasons why as noticed by forum legend @takato14
    Debacle recorded and organized by our Captain @purr1n
     
  12. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    We were duped by HFM right out the gate with the HE-560 fiasco. They tried to do the Audeze thing with real wood. Guess what - we got veneer and we still do. Wanna know why? BECAUSE THEY SUCK and I have no idea who keeps funding them.
     
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  13. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    I got really into the sound quality of what I was using to listen to music with in the mid 2000s, with HF being one of the first places I went to learn. Luckily I wound up with a Sennheiser HD595 and avoided most of the “crap”. By the time I started investing more money into the hobby sbaf had just formed and helped me avoid most shitty experiences (minus the AGD Singularity we all willingly exposed ourselves to for “science”).

    The only headphone that was truly terrible and I couldn’t stand (that I remember) is the Focal Elegia. There have been a few I disliked, but I really hated the Elegia. The tone or timbre was just so off what I considered good or even normal. Fortunately it was a loaner from a friend so I didn’t spend money on it.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I need to do a review - that is a through measurement suite (and more) of the DT990 600-ohm. I have some suspicions why it (along with other Beyers) doesn't tick for many.
     
  15. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    I'm guessing my ear shape and the circle shaped cup caused me less issue finding an OK place with the DT-880 250. I had a 770 and 880 for a bit and they were just fine in the grand scheme of things. The Sony SA5000 and AD2000 should be getting more flack for their wonky-ness, but they have their own saving graces. Too bad the HD800 kinda does the trick that both of them try for while being overall (for me) less problemsome, but I only own the HD800 because it is a day 1 pre-order from TTVJ (don't get me started on the fiasco of that CanJam) Needless to say, my HF-2 said Head-F1 and my HD800 wasn't shipped first as Todd claimed to have control of.
     
  16. scblock

    scblock Friend

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    If you would like to borrow a lightly used pair to test I would be happy to lend them.
     
  17. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Only if they’re defective. I can’t imagine what would happen to the universe if @Marvey measured a non defective Beyer :eek:
     
  18. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    HD 820. Listened for a couple hours at a Sennheiser store and compared with 800 and 800S. I get the HD 800 hate but love them for classical and haven’t found anything that comes close to making me that happy (with classical). The 820 on the other hand is so tonally wrong and weird, I don’t understand what they were thinking. I thought the 820 was designed for people that don’t want instruments to sound accurate.

    DCA/MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Closed (V1). This was a blind purchase. I really wanted to like these and experience the hype but I couldn’t convince myself they were anything but boring. Their ability to remove all soul and fun from music was impressive. I tried so many amps before eventually giving up and selling. They were some of the most comfortable headphones I’ve ever worn. Too bad comfort doesn’t make them sound better.
     
  19. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    I don't know how to feel about Dan. This move with the "Stealth" kinda rubs me the wrong way. I was an early adopter of the Mad Dog and went through all the crap. Every...freak'n...time... I was one of the guys that had an issue with one thing or another and had to basically, what felt like, beg him to fix them. He would always tell you there was no way possible that anything could go wrong because he measured X amount of times before sending them out. But, every time... I kept chasing the carrot all the way up to the Alpha Dog. Once he went "Pro & Prime" or whatever.. I was over it. I had over 1K invested into the same f'ing T50 that I started with and it actually started getting worse. The Mad Dog 3.2 (Non-Pro, Non-Whatever) was his best iteration and we shouldn't have kept pushing it further and funding him further. I would/should have stuck right there with all my T50 needs. I have a Paradox now and I spent too much, but hey - it's really close to how I remember the 3.2.

    The HE-500 and HE-6 is where HiFiMan should have stopped. They went all Mary Poppin's floaty ethereal shit.
     
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  20. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Koss MV1 I bought awhile back were TERRIBLE. Originally they were $180 and I got them marked down to $90. They are high impedance pro headphones and I thought I was getting a good deal. I soon discovered why the price was slashed. Burn-in changes the sound immensely and the MV1 should be used as a textbook example of why burn-in matters.

    My memory of how bad they were is fuzzy but I do know compared to the HD-201 and the ATH-AD700 I was listening to at the time, MV1 was worse. Recently I bought the Porta Pros and they blew me away. I have no idea how a company that can make cheap headphones sound so good could make the MV1. I remember reading Tyll's impression of a recent version of the Koss Pro4AA and he also thought they were a lot worse than his memory of them from a long time ago. I don't know what happened to the standards of Koss around this time.

    I'll try to find notes on the sound somewhere but I will say that my experience matches what Skylab said back in 2007. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how-about-the-koss-mv1.216333/#post-3093135

    Now I have some ideas why they sound so bad even after burn-in. The pads are rubber and do not breath at all. In fact my listening sessions had to be limited because my ears would start to get sweaty. This forms a tight seal and from what I know about pads, I think this affects the sound quite a bit. The driver is coated metal and there is zero filter in front as well. So you heard the bare driver but it's likely it could have benefited from some tissue or foam mod.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021

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