Tidal adds hi-res audio streams with 'Tidal Masters' (with MQA)

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by weldp, Jan 5, 2017.

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  1. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Good luck with that- not enough people have been interested in the kool-aid so far, I'd expect it rammed down peoples' throats wherever possible for a bit now.
     
  2. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    It'll be on the "gear" icon next to the Sound Output option you're using.

    If you don't have an MQA enabled DAC then you want to leave "Passthrough MQA" UNCHECKED.
     
  3. Madra

    Madra Acquaintance

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    If you selelct Passthrough MQA, you disable software decoding, and rely on your dac to decode MQA. don't select it if you dac does not do MQA.
     
  4. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Software decoding results in the Tidal app outputting what exactly? 24/96 PCM?
     
  5. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    So far that's what my DACs are reporting, yes.
     
  6. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    In that case, what's the advantage of an MQA-enabled DAC? Doesn't that just push the decoding to the DAC? If it's bit perfect identical to the corresponding 24/96 PCM file without MQA after the decoding, why the need for special hardware?
     
  7. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    I'm wondering this as well. Headfiers are reporting that tracks are showing up as 24/96 as well on non MQA DACs.

    Not my pic but on a MQA certified DAC, tracks are showing up as this (24/352.8)

    [​IMG]

    In any case, 24/96 is good enough for me ... no need for an MQA DAC. If this catches on, Maybe Schiit will change their mind about it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  8. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    An MQA-enabled DAC can (will, per current verbiage) have an optimized implementation that takes advantage of specific knowledge of the DAC in question and yields a potentially more accurate result. Accuracy, in this case, appears to refer to temporal (time-domain) accuracy.

    In theory, an MQA-encoded file should be playable directly without any decoder in the chain. This seems to work fine with the TIDAL client on OS X ... if you enable "Passthrough MQA" on a non-MQA enabled DAC, the stream still plays correctly and still identifies as 24/96 (for the albums I've tried so far). If there's a software decoder available, then it'll get you some of the benefits of the format (at reduced accuracy), and with an MQA-supporting DAC you get results optimized for that specific DAC.

    Note that MQA files can have a native (decoded) bit-rate of 16/44.1 ... they're not forced to be 16/48, 24/48, 24/96 or higher ... though part of the promise of the format is an effective 21-bit/96 KHz bit-space in the same space non-MQA 16/48 file.

    Technically, if the material I've read is correct (and if I've understood it properly), it's possible to build a software decoder for a specific DAC and have it perform the same as a native MQA DAC, but that requires what amounts to specific MQA code for each possible output, which would get fiddly pretty quickly (no standard model for that outside device drivers).
     
  9. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    That's possible, if the native container file contains MQA encoded at an actual in-file bit-rate of 24/96 (the encoding bit-rate would be lower than the actual bit-rate due to compression).
     
  10. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I will say this so far for MQA's first "proper" outing ...

    The selection of initial albums is quite a bit more interesting and varied than anything we've seen in the DSD world and there is some good stuff in there (for example, I own about a third of the albums currently posted in "Master" quality on TIDAL either on LP, CD or as legal downloads). As in "stuff I'd actually listen to because I wanted to, not just because it was all that was available".

    As to where it goes and if it's really any good ... well that's another story entirely.
     
  11. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    @Torq, have you come across a list of currently available MQA albums on Tidal?
     
  12. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Not in a copyable/linkable list ... but there's 199 of them in the "Masters" section under "What's New"/"Albums" right now.
     
  13. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Okay, that is interesting. Not interesting enough for me to buy an MQA DAC at this point in time, but it may be worth looking into if MQA catches on.
     
  14. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Doh', totally missed that. Cheers!
     
  15. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Okay ... here's the current list ... painstakingly extracted from TIDALs bloody-awful UI:

    • …And Out Come The Wolves (20th Anniversary Re-Issue) (Rancid)
    • 50 Words For Snow (Kate Bush)
    • A Head Full Of Dreams (Coldplay)
    • A Sailor's Guide to Earth (Sturgill Simpson)
    • A/B (Kaleo)
    • Algiers (Calexico)
    • All Or Nothin' (Nikki Lane)
    • All Your Favorite Bands (Dawes)
    • America Beauty (Grateful Dead)
    • American Gangster (JAY Z)
    • American Gothic (David Ackles)
    • American Tunes (Allen Toussaint)
    • Aqualung (Steven Wilson Mix And Master) (Jethro Tull)
    • Around the Fur (Deftones)
    • Azel (Bombino)
    • Bach: Sonatas and Partitas, Vol. 1 (Christ Thile)
    • Bad As Me (Tom Waits)
    • BARTÓK (Annar Folleso, Christian Ihle Hadland, Björn Nyman)
    • Bartók: Music for Strings, Percission and Celesta - Hindemith: Symphony (Mathis der Maler) (Herbert von Karajan)
    • Beethoven Sonatas vol II (Kristin Fossheim)
    • Bellezza Crudel - VIVALDI (Tone Wik, Barokkanerne)
    • Big Day in a Small Town (Brandy Clark)
    • Billion Dollar Babies (Alice Cooper)
    • Bjørn Bolstad Skjelbred: WAVES & INTERRUPTIONS (Eirik Raude)
    • Bleach (Deluxe Edition) (Nirvana)
    • Blue (Joni Mitchell)
    • Blues and Ballads (Brad Mehldau)
    • Blurryface (twenty one pilots)
    • Born Under A Bad Sign (Albert King)
    • Boys Don't Cry (Deluxe) (Rumer)
    • Breezin' (George Bensen)
    • Bryce Dessner: Aheym (Kronos Quartet with Bryce Dessner)
    • Buena Vista Social Club (Buena Vista Social Club)
    • Burn (Deep Purple)
    • California (blink-182)
    • Carl Nielsen Piano Music (Christian Eggen)
    • case/lang/veirs (case/lang/viers)
    • Cave Rave (Crystal Fighters)
    • Chutes Too Narrow (The Shins)
    • Close To The Edge (Yes)
    • Complete Studio Albums 1970-1978 (Black Sabbath)
    • Core (Stone Temple Pilots)
    • Core (Stone Temple Pilots)
    • Crosby, Still & Nash (Crosby, Stills & Nash)
    • Dark Sky Island (Deluxe) (Enya)
    • Diamond Dogs (2016 Remastered Version) (David Bowie)
    • Dodge and Burn (The Dead Weather)
    • Dream Theater (Dream Theater)
    • Dvorák: Violin Concerto (Itzhak Perlman)
    • Eivind Buene: Possible Cities / Essential Landscapes (Cikada)
    • Electric Warrior (T. Rex)
    • Ellipsis (Deluxe) (Biffy Clyro)
    • Everything All the Time (Band Of Horses)
    • EXAUDIAM EUM - Gregorian Chan for Lent and Holy Week (Consortium Vocale, Alexander M. Schweitzner)
    • Factory Girl (Rhiannon Giddens)
    • Faith In The Future (Craig Finn)
    • Fitz & The Tantrums (Fitz & The Tantrums)
    • Fleet Foxes (Fleet Foxes)
    • For the Roses (Joni Mitchell)
    • Free TC (Deluxe) (Ty Dolla $ign)
    • From The North (Raised Fist)
    • Ghost On Ghost (Iron & Wine)
    • Giant Steps (Mono) (John Coltrane)
    • Giant Steps (Stereo) (John Coltrane)
    • Give Up (Deluxe 10th Anniversary Edition) (The Postal Service)
    • Goodbye To Language (Daniel Lanois, Rocco DeLuca)
    • Graham Nash David Crosby (Graham Nash, David Crosby)
    • Gris Gris (Dr. John)
    • Guitars, Cadillacs, Etc., Etc. (Dwight Yoakam)
    • Gustav MAHLER & Bruno WALTER (Christian Hilz, Katia Bouscarrut)
    • Hail to the King (Avenged Sevenfold)
    • Heartbeat City (The Cars)
    • Hello, I Must Be Going (Phil Collins)
    • Hollow Bones (Rival Sons)
    • Hollow Meadows (Richard Hawley)
    • Hunting High & Low (Remastered) (a-ha)
    • I Love You, Honeybear (Fasther John Misty)
    • I Never Learn (Lykke Li)
    • I Never Loved A Man The Way I Love You (Mono) (Aretha Franklin)
    • idina (Idina Menzel)
    • If I'm Honest (Blake Shelton)
    • Immortal NYSTEDT (Ensemble 96, Oysten Fevang)
    • Immortalized (Deluxe Version) (Disturbed)
    • In Winter (Katie Melua)
    • Introduce Yourself (Faith No More)
    • Junk (M83)
    • Junun ( Shye Ben Tzur, Jonny Greenwood, The Rajasthan Express)
    • Kick (INXS)
    • Kidsticks (Beth Orton)
    • Killing Me Softly (Roberta Flack)
    • Kin (<-->) (Pat Metheny)
    • KIND (Ensemble 96, Kjetil Almenning)
    • Led Zeppelin (Deluixe Edition) (Led Zeppelin)
    • LEMONADE (Beyoncé)
    • Lie in San Francisco (Ry cooder & Corridos Famosos)
    • Light up the Dark (Deluxe Version) (Gabrielle Aplin)
    • Like A Virgin (Madonna)
    • MARE (Aurora Pianoquartett)
    • Marquee Moon (Television)
    • Midwest Farmer's Daughter (Margo Price)
    • Minute By Minute (The Doobie Brothers)
    • Moondance (Van Morrison)
    • Mosey (Daniel Romano)
    • Mozart/Grieg vol. I (Dena Piano Duo)
    • Mr. Wonderful (Action Bronson)
    • Mud Slide Slim And The Blue Horizon (James Taylor)
    • Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhbition - Borodin: Symphony No. 2 (Sir Simon Rattle)
    • My Favorite Things (John Coltrane)
    • My Favourite Faded Fantasy (Damien Rice)
    • My House (Flo Rida)
    • Né So (Rokia Traoré)
    • New Bermuda (Deafheaven)
    • Nordheim (Cikada Duo)
    • Nothing's Shocking (Jane's Addiction)
    • Ohh La La (Faces)
    • OLE BULL Violin Concertos (Annar Folleso, Norwegian Radio Orchestra, Ole Kristian Ruud, KORK)
    • Once More 'Round The Sun (Mastodon)
    • Origin of Symmetry (Muse)
    • Otis Blue (Otis Redding)
    • Paganini: 24 Caprices (Itzhak Perlman)
    • Pale Communion (Opeth)
    • Phases & Stages (Willie Nelson)
    • Plagge … in Circles (Annar Folleso, Helge Hjekshus, Wolfgang Plagge)
    • Plans (Death Cab For Cutie)
    • Platinum Hits (Jason Derulo)
    • Por Favor (Brett Dennen)
    • Purple (Baroness)
    • Rainbow Ends (Emitt Rhodes)
    • Rave Tapes (Mogwai)
    • Remember Us To Life (Deluxe) (Regina Spektor)
    • Restless (New Order)
    • Rumors (Fleetwood Mac)
    • Running On Empty (Jackson Brown)
    • Saling To Philadelphia (Mark Knopfler)
    • Schmilco (Wilco)
    • Side Pony (Lake Street Dive)
    • Some Nights (fun)
    • Something/Anything (Todd Rundgren)
    • SONaR (Grex Vocalis, Ellen Bodtker)
    • Soul Brothers (Ray Charles, Milt Jackson)
    • Southsiders (Deluxe Version (Atmosphere)
    • SOUVENIR part I (Trondheimsolistene)
    • Speak & Spell (Depeche Mode)
    • Spectrum (Billy Cobham)
    • St Germain (St Germain)
    • Stage Four (Deluxe Edition (Touché Amoré)
    • Stages (Josh Groban)
    • Stay Reckless (Austin Lucas)
    • Strangeways Here We Come (The Smiths)
    • STRING QUARTETS vol. I H adyen - Solberg - Grieg (Engegard Quartet)
    • STRING QUARTETS vol. III Haydn - Nordheim - Bartok (Engegard Quartet)
    • Superfly (Curtis Mayfield)
    • Tales Of Us (Goldfrapp)
    • Tarkus (Emerson, Lake & Palmer)
    • Tassili (Tinariwen)
    • Thank Your Lucky Stars (Beach House)
    • Thankful N' Thoughtful (Bettye LaVette)
    • The Bride (Bat For Lashes)
    • The Coincidentalist (How Gelb)
    • The Color Before The Sun (Deconstructed Deluxe) (Coheed And Cambria)
    • The Complete BBC Sessions (Led Zeppelin)
    • The Doors (The Doors)
    • The Electric Lady (Janelle Monáe )
    • The Genius Of Ray Charles (Ray Charles)
    • The Great Escape (Blur)
    • The Last Waltz (The Band)
    • The Lights From The Chemical Plant (Deluxe Edition) (Robert Ellis)
    • The New Cool (Bob James, Nathan East)
    • The Nordic Sound (2L Audiophile Reference Recordings)
    • The Original High (Deluxe Version) (Adam Lambert)
    • The Party (Andy Shauf)
    • The Shape of Jazz to Come (Ornette Coleman)
    • The Shape Of Punk To Come (Remastered) (Refused)
    • The Traveling Kind (Emmylou Harris & Rodney Crowell)
    • The Worse Things Get, The Harder I Fight, The Harder I Fight, The More I Love You (Neko Case)
    • This Is All Yours (alt-J)
    • Three (Blue Man Group)
    • Tigerlily (Natalie Merchant)
    • Trace of Impressions (Anders Kjellberg Nilsson, Sveinung Bjelland)
    • Turn Blue (The Black Keys)
    • Unbreakable (Janet Jackson)
    • Uncaged (Zac Brown Band)
    • Unorthodox Jukebox (Bruno Mars)
    • Unplugged (lanis Morissette)
    • Unplugged 1991/2001: The Complete Sessions (R.E.M.)
    • Untethered Moon (Built To Spill)
    • Upside Down Mountain (Conor Oberst)
    • Vespertine (Bjork)
    • Vestiges & Claws (José González)
    • What For? (Toro Y Moi)
    • Wild Tales (Graham Nash)
    • Wolfgang Plagge: Ars Nova [Liknarbraut] (Ensemble 96, Oysten Fevang, Wolfgang Plagge)
    • Wrecking Ball (Emmylou Harris)
    • Yoshimi Battle The Pink Robots (The Flaming Lips)
    • You Should Be Here (Cole Swindell)
    • You Should Be Here (Kehlani)
    • Young Americans (2106 Remastered Version) (David Bowie)
    • Young, Gifted And Black (Aretha Franklin)

    I think there's one missing in that list - and if so, it's because the smegger had a name that was too ridiculous to type.
     
  16. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    Big Update Everyone.

    First, there are definitely more than 200 MQA albums on Tidal, not just the stuff listed in the "Masters" section of "What's New". For example. The Black Keys album Turn Blue is listed in the Masters section but if you go to the artist page, you can see duplicates of their other albums. Those duplicates are the Master versions (but frustratingly, they are not labeled as such so you need to play a track to see which version is which, please fix this Tidal). But ya, there is no definitive list of MQA albums, you need to check your artist's page to see if there are MQA duplicates.

    Second, I think MQA is only working with the Tidal Desktop app for the time being (at least that is what Tidal says on their site), not other programs that are Tidal enabled like Roon, Amarra and Bluesound. Frustrating but hopefully support is coming to those services very soon. I have a Bluesound Node 2 for spdif to my DAC but its not doing MQA at the moment as far as I can tell.

    Go to Led Zeppelin for example ... it looks like almost all of their albums has an MQA version. So far, I haven't be able to find any random search artists with MQA albums but the Masters list in New Stuff has pointed me in the direction of artists with other MQA albums. So basically, if you find an artist with an MQA album in "New Stuff", there is a chance they have other MQA albums that are not listed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  17. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    That's even better then, though my list, above, is only those albums from the "Masters" section of "What's New".
     
  18. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    I'm going to start a list of artists with multiple MQA albums. I might make another thread out of it.

    Edit: On second thought, that will take forever, Just use the "What New - Masters" section to find artists with multiple MQA versions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  19. Comzee

    Comzee Facebook Friend

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    While in "Passthrough MQA" mode streaming 24/96, is there a noticeable difference between Tidals standard 16/44.1?
    Pending it's the same recording to A/B.
     
  20. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Haven't done any proper comparative listening yet, so can't say. It'll have to deliver more than just an effective increase in bit-depth and sample-rate to be easily discernible though (which MQA is supposed to do when handled by an MQA decoder). In other words, the temporal correction, etc, that MQA is also supposed to address will have to be a factor ... otherwise it's going to be like comparing typical 16/44.1 to 24/96 (something I can only really tell the difference with in terms of fatigue over long sessions ... given a common master).
     

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