Tidal adds hi-res audio streams with 'Tidal Masters' (with MQA)

I actually thought Roon Bridge was its own interface, like Volumio or Rune. I can more easily load a whole new OS on there then try to edit the one already loaded.

 

So I'm confused. According to this page, Tidal MQA can only be played with the PC/MAC Desktop App: http://tidal.com/us/download

So does that mean that any external device that acts as a Tidal streamer (like the Bluesound Node 2) cannot currently play MQA files through Tidal? This is seriously confusing.

 

It's software that runs on top of your core OS and provides a headless Roon End-Point.

What was called "Roon OS", which is more along the lines of what you're thinking of, has been renamed "Roon Core Kit" and it's a full-blown, bootable, Roon-only turn-key environment. It's dependent on Roon 1.3, so will release in parallel with that. Roon Core Kit is also headless (the only UX is accessed remotely) and there is nothing you can do to it/with it locally (no reason to connect a screen or keyboard).

The down side is that, at least initially (and possibly perpetually), it requires some fairly specific Intel hardware (e.g. 5th and 6th Gen NUCs, specific on-baord storage configurations).

Roon Bridge will remain the way to put Roon on cheap RPi+ box for now.

I'll expect to something to share here, shortly(ish), that should be quite interesting for those running (or wanting to) RPi-based endpoints.

 

Thanks! I keep doing this dance with Roon where I get close to it and then back off again. It's the price.

 

- Yes this is another stupid iteration of DSD/HDCD/DVD-A/SACD
- Yes this is money grab by the MQA/Meridian guys to force every DAC manufacture to give them money for ever DAC sold
- Yes this whole format is likely a repackaged version of DSD/HDCD/DVD-A/SACD and sonically won't sound much better or different

But if
A) It actually and truly is a significantly "better sounding format"
B) It gets a *huge* catalog backing it (most of the important recordings)

Then we actually are in a situation where DAC manufacturers are screwed, but we might benefit with significantly better sounding digital. Even @schiit might add MQA at that point and they've said as such.

At this point though, you'd be dumb to rush out and by an MQA DAC thinking the world changed. My canary in the coal mine that it's time to make a change is when @schiit starts making MQA DACs. And to @zerodeefex's point, I don't think anyone is but the curious.

But I think it's worthwhile for those who are curious to experiment as I did. Let's find out if both A and B are true and significant

In my findings:
A) MQA is sonically roughly in the same department as HD Tracks with Tidal's MQA->PCM software converter. I still prefer my Redbook PCM files
B) The catalog is roughly 200-1000 strong

Basically, move along, nothing to see here. That said, this is a space I will watch.

I am anxiously awaiting someone to give a (non-Roon) Tidal App sonic comparison on the HIFI vs MASTER (aka PCM vs. MQA) on an actual MQA DAC they just happen to own.

Also, everyone would be better served paying next to no attention to this and putting effort into a vinyl rig. I'm not really sure we can fix digital.

 

One more point to drive home all this nonsense:
Digital has yet to significantly improve over PCM/Redbook.

My vinyl rig significantly improved when I put a Kiseki Purple Heart cartridge on my turntable in a way no DAC or digital format change has ever come close to.

If MQA is as big a sonic improvement as my Purple Heart, all of us should pay attention. Initial findings seem to tell us that there is nothing much to pay attention to here and that this whole change is about money and licensing and not about sound quality.

Basically MQA/Meridian wants to become the Dolby of 2-channel and this is their play.

 

We won't really know if this is the shit or just shit until someone with trusted ears starts playing around with MQA DACs. The DAC specific implementation aspect is interesting but to me sounds more like a curiosity or a less than 1% possible improvement sort of thing rather than an actual breakthrough. Right now all we're hearing is a FLAC file with additional compression applied (and then unapplied).

 

Ok, sure, but I can't afford to spend $20-$30 every time I want to add 10 songs to my music collection. Vinyl is still stupid expensive so most of us have to make digital as good as it can possibly be. Even the notoriously persnickety Michael Fremer said that MQA, to his ears, significantly closed the gap between vinyl and digital by correcting time domain errors that are found in Redbook.

I'm not saying people should run out and buy an MQA cert. DAC but people are noticing sonic improvements using standard DACs with MQA. I agree that the whole DAC certification thing is a way to milk money from DAC builders but a non MQA DAC can probably pull 90-95% of the sound quality out of an MQA file which will be good enough for most. In my own tests, I didn't notice a major difference between my Modi Multibit / CD player via coax and my crappy laptop USB and MQA, which means that a proper digital chain with SPDIF and Tidal MQA should beat a CD player most days of the week.

 

I'm picking up the Meridian Explorer 2 simply as a very cheap way to see for myself what's actually going on here (while potentially having a bit of fun with it) and then to be able to provide concrete information on what/how it works based on hands-on/ears-on usage. There's so much poor writing, contradiction and confusion around MQA, coupled with a big interview with Bob Stuart (piss poorly conducted) that reads more like double talk than anything else, that it's hard to know what is accurate.

Since I already run a TIDAL HiFi subscription, it's just the time and the minimal cost of the MQA DAC to get proper answers with no industry bias or press or anyone else being able to influence what I find.

And when I'm done piddling with it, and have written up what I've found, if others want to try it for themselves I'll happily send the Explorer 2 out on tour.

 

I'm glad someone is going to find out exactly what MQA does and does not do. Every time I see something about it, it seems to be claiming to do something entirely different than it did last time.

 

Correct out of phase recordings? That makes no sense. If some asshole kid leaves a burning brown bag of shit on your porch, you don't pull down your pants and drop a deuce on top of it to put out the fire.

The same is true with listening to recordings except that flaming brown bag of shit is there forever and the best you can do is not focus on it while looking at the scenic vista of the little jerk running away giggling. MQA reads like a proprietary turd like Dolby meant to extract more revenue from gullible audiophiles, who along with dedicated fans are the only people still buying CDs and LPs.

 

Torq, I'm going to test the same thing with my Blusound Node 2 which has a Meridian certified DAC inside. I normally bypass it and run straight into my Modi Multibit but once Bluesound enables MQA (hopefully very soon), I will find out what full MQA is doing. So the question will be, how does a D/S Burr Brown chip with full MQA optimization compare to a Schiit Multibit chip playing 24/96 limited MQA tracks.

 

Yes, vinyl and everything does get expensive, my point is, I'd be happier spending $1k on a vinyl rig and $1k on vinyl than $2k on a fancy DAC or DAC upgrades. And I'd be much more satisfied spending $20 a month on a satisfying record than spending $20 on a digital subscription. I may be the minority here, but I get so much more fulfillment out of vinyl vs. digital that it seems a bit ridiculous to me how much time and effort is put into digital when you don't get too much out of it. That's just my opinion and because it has had such a big impact, I have a hard time not sharing it.

That said, I'd love it MQA got us there to the analog/vinyl space, but the more I learn and watch digital stuff, the more it seems like polishing a turd. It can be done (see the relevant Mythbusters episode), but what's the point? It's sad, I wish digital would surpass vinyl and make great music more available and have everyone having a very satisfying music experience.

 

True, but luckily, you don't need to spend any additional money to test it (assuming that you have Tidal already). I'm ignoring all the MQA technobabble. What I hear is "Hey, guess what ... Tidal just added a few hundred albums of 24/96 content that you don't have to pay extra for!" This isn't a bad thing, trying to extract that last drop of resolution by buying an overpriced MQA DAC is obviously a waste and I think almost everyone realizes that.

 

It's getting to the point where I'm wondering if I should just stick with the Modi Multibit and not bother to upgrade my DAC further because I can drop $1-$2K on a better DAC or I can put that money toward an outer ring clamp or a Purpleheart cartridge or I can buy one hot stamper from Better Records.

 

drfindley, I actually agree with everything you have said. Vinyl beats digital up and down the block in almost every criteria. The only thing I would add is that, in my opinion, you need a fairly nice turntable, cartridge and phono to really get that sonic benefit. I would say that, to my ears, most sub $1k vinyl setups are bested by digital chains of equivalent price. but once you go TOTL vinyl though, digital has no chance. My brother has a $600 turntable, a $200 cartridge and a $300 phono and, while I'm biased obviously, I think my digital chain beats it. But I have heard vinyl setups that make my digital rig sound like crap so I know its the table/phono/cartridge holding vinyl back, not the medium itself.

 

This is the way I look at it. The Modi Multibit at $250 is the biggest no brainer purchase going in hifi right now. It beats or equals every sub $1K DAC that I can possibly think of (except for a used Sonic Frontiers or Theta but those are getting harder to find for under $1000). The next logical upgrade is the Gungnir Multibit at $1K more. For some, that is an acceptable pain for some gains. For myself, that is just too much of a jump in price. So, I'm sticking with my Modi Multibit and I'm going to stop obsessing over DACs and invest in a good OTL tube amp which will make a much bigger difference than a Gungnir Multibit.

 

@TheIceman93 You're right, not every vinyl rig can blow away any DAC, but I do think it's possible for cheaper than you'd think.

I'd rather a U-Turn table + a Denon 103r cartridge + MFSL's upcoming phono stage than a DAC myself and that's roughly $1k? Anyways, we do need to have a better guide on how to have an affordable journey through vinyl. It's not as simple and straightforward as saying buy a Modi Multibit/Gungnir Multibit and get some FLACs.

 

Certainly not when you start throwing Lynx's and Rednets into the disussion. This stuff can get crazy.

I'll be honest though, I have been looking at a vinyl setup as of late and choosing my top 20 albums of all time to play with a speaker setup once I move into a bigger place.