Tidal adds hi-res audio streams with 'Tidal Masters' (with MQA)

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by weldp, Jan 5, 2017.

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  1. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I think it depends on what you're looking for in a system. Prior to my recent upgrades, I was running a used Technics SL-1800, not a bottom of the heap table but not high end, with a $200 something Bellari pre through an Onkyo A/V receiver to Pioneer Andrew Jones speakers. Nowhere near as good technically as my headphone rig at the time. And yet when I put on Dark Side of the Moon or Ziggy Stardust or Parklife on that vinyl rig it didn't matter to me that I couldn't hear as much detail, or that I likely wasn't getting as good of an FR, or any of that stuff. I was feeling the music. Of course, with big upgrades I can get the technical and the musical, which is even better, but if you're looking to just hear some great music, even a lower end vinyl rig can move you. If you want to do more critical listening, or you love hearing every slide of a finger across a guitar string, then I agree you can get there more easily and cheaply with vinyl. And that's no knock on people who love detail, I can get lost in detail too.

    Also I will add that with digital I kept wanting something more. I assumed this was because all my gear was mid-fi, and if I graduated up to hi-fi I'd be satisfied. Turns out the issue had more to do with digital than the difference between mid-fi quality and hi-fi quality. Because with my lower end vinyl rig I never felt like I was missing something. I knew I wasn't wringing out the best of my records with that gear, but it didn't hold me back from enjoying the music in the moment as much as digital did. And again, I feel I had some very good mid-fi headphone gear (and still do).

    I agree with this. Besides, turntables are a mature technology. If I put money into mine now, the chances of me needing significant upgrades due to new technological breakthroughs is slim. If I buy a TOTL DAC now, I suspect I will end up having to sell it within a few years for a next gen model as new breakthroughs in digital are absolutely still possible. So for now the Modi Multibit is a solid placeholder until those breakthroughs see the light of day.
     
  2. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

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    I love this. Let me know if I can do anything to help, whether it's finding a good pressing or a good rig.
     
  3. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    I've cancelled my Tidal subscription and left Roon unused for now, in favor of JRiver MC.

    I'm not using Tidal more than maybe twice a month for pre-eBay-bid-listening and until Roon can really disrupt the current way of streaming (be it from local or online sources) with better metadata (as in covers, booklets, inlays) local and online, I'm out.

    MQA or "Masters" or whatever it's called doesn't change the way I consume music; streaming for evaluation (which I'm now doing on YouTube or any other free service) -> purchase of CD/SACD -> rip -> enjoy.

    What I do spend monthly $ on is terms of subscriptions is the digital concert hall app from Berlin Philharmoniker. Highly recommended.
    It gives me something I do not have nor intend to have in terms of supporting equipment: video and audio and live concerts over streaming.

    I found that Tidal only resulted in LESS listening, not MORE. When the availability of everything all the time is in front of me, I go crazy.
    No. I need the comfort and control of choosing one album at a time.

    But this thread is about the high-res option with Tidal. The key question is: before high-res Tidal, was that a deal breaker for people? "No not until they offer high res" ?

    I doubt it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  4. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    I'm glad you mentioned the Mofi phono because I've been looking at that with the Mofi Studio Deck turntable.

    What's your opinion of vinyl through headphones? I've heard that light bass can be an issue, especially for open backs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  5. Stride

    Stride Facebook Friend

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    After having a listen to Tidal Master Albums I have come to the conclusion that if the recording is brickwalled, loud and flat it will sound shit MQAd or not. Looking at shit with a magnifying glass does not make looking at shit fun.

    Where they get the master is more important than MQA itself. The example for me was when I preferred A-ha - Take on me 1985 version Redbook over the 2015 remastered MQA because at least 1985 version was not flat sounding.
     
  6. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

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    I'm very curious about that as well. I'm hoping it's a done well and it's a champ.

    Vinyl through headphones is great, but I'm not sure on the bass. The bass out of my rig has no problems, Aphex Twin was definitely digging deep earlier today. Ask @bazelio what he thinks, he has a vinyl/headphone rig going.
     
  7. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    If MQA claimed to make bad mastering sound good, then I would know it's snake oil right off. Mastering is king regardless of format or delivery method. Garbage in, garbage out.
     
  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Not just mastering; recording, mixing, and artists just not being prepared to enter the studio too. So many classic records have out of phase recordings or mixes of drum kits and there's just nothing you can do it about it. MQA trying to fudge it over by trying to implement some sort of distance inducing DSP is insane.
     
  9. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Well yes, the whole chain leading up to the release is important, but you can ruin a great recording with bad mastering and you can salvage a mediocre recording with careful mastering. The Misfits will never sound like Michael Jackson but there's varying degrees of crap sound.
     
  10. gldgate

    gldgate New

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    That's exactly what I am doing as well. Was listening to the Tidal "Masters" thru Yggdrasil yesterday and was not bowled over with what I heard. However, for $200 shipped I can pick up a hardware decoder and make up my own mind. The writing on MQA has been very emotional and polarizing. Not helpful.
     
  11. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Yeah, I'm not sure I follow. If the transducer, whether it be in a speaker or headphone, can reproduce bass lines adequately then I think it should be a matter of balance further up the chain. If the TT tends lean then then tonearm, cart, phono etc can help to bring back tonal balance. I like what I have heard thus far from my analog rig, not just in terms of bass quantity or control, but the nuance and detail within bass reverb. If I concentrate, I can listen to a separate concert just within the 30-80 Hz band. A real "head trip". ;-)
     
  12. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    This is basically what I have done unintentionally. My vinyl collection is only about 26 albums, but almost all of them are in my top 50 albums of all time (if I were to make such a list). I buy one very calculated album a month.

    I'm in the minority here, as I prefer my Gungnir Multibit to Rega RP3/Elys2/TC-750 with headphones, but that vinyl rig still allows me for a nice change of pace especially when I want to listen to my "classics". It's dangerous though, as even though I prefer Gungnir Multibit I can start to see the appeal of going all vinyl when buget and living enviroment allows... (sans music discovery, in which Tidal is so important to me).

    If this TIDAL/MQA thing simply just allows for easier sampling of different masters with no extra cost, I'm excited, and will start tinkering with that for sure.
     
  13. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    Well put @gldgate

    I am seeing this in this thread. Why are people so upset over this? Why all the talk when @Torq and anyone who has an MQA-capable DAC are the only ones who will initially be able to intelligently speak about this new technology now readily available.

    There is way too much noise and very little signal here right now. As for me, I am going to get a $99 Dragonfly when the update is available and actually listen if there is a difference.
     
  14. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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  15. pedalhead

    pedalhead Friend

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  16. Prydz

    Prydz Friend

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    Does anyone know which song it is in that video?
     
  17. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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  18. Prydz

    Prydz Friend

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    Thank You!
     
  19. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    So after a few hours of back and forth between CD and MQA (through a non MQA DAC), I can hear subtle differences. The MQA has more information in it for sure, I'm picking out background sounds that are less noticeable in the CD version. I'd say 65-70% of the tracks sound better than the CD counterpart but the rest sound either identical or worse.
     
  20. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    Hearing background sounds more vividly at low to (somewhere around) medium volume is a classic effect of greater dynamic range compression, IME. I am not saying that is what you are experiencing @TheIceman93 . This is the just the first thing I think of when I hear that description.

    Unless we can compare the exact same mastering with and without MQA, I don't think we will really learn anything. I don't know if the tools (comparing EAC logs or null testing) to verify that the mastering is identical (or not) will apply with MQA involved.
     

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