Tubes, Tubes, Tubes -- Resources for Rollers!

Ahh! You were doing so well by using the salutation 'bhai'

Yes, I was speaking of BEL tubes made in India using transfer of technology from Philips/Mullard . A few years back these were commonly available here locally but have been increasingly rare nowadays.
I do own a few and I won't mind sending them over but last time I tried sending tubes abroad, the postal authorities refused on the grounds that export of electronic goods is prohibited from India without an exporter's licence. Curiously, my friends in other cities have had no such issue.
They do seem to be available at upscale audio currently, not really cheap though :
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/bel-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-design/
I can't make out the getter in their picture but the preferred ones IMO are the ones with the large halo getter (probably from early 60s).

 

I did a quick scan of this thread , & it doesn't appear anyone has mentioned this yet !

Caig has a tube cleaning survival kit that I believe is available through Music Direct. The kit includes cleaning solutions , brushes & wipes, etc, for cleaning the tube pins & sockets. 2 troughs are included to use for soaking heavily oxidized tube pins (rather than attempting to scrape heavily oxidated pins off).

The kit goes for $24.99 . I'll probably order it sometime today as I've never really cleaned my tube sockets, so it probably couldn't hurt to do so. (Even though my amp is exceptionally quiet, I've probably jinxed it now that I've mentioned it.!)

As no one gets me things for my Audio Hobby for Christmas , I'll "gift" myself with this kit.

Have a great Christmas & don't overload on "ugly, dopey" versions of "Pop" Artists ruining Christmas Music by being their "look at how great my Musical. chops are even with Christmas Music" selves ! (Though "Pop Artists" don't really understand what "Chops" are; If they did they'd be "Musicians" not (cough) "Artists")

 

I have a question about tubes. I have been doing a lot of research on tube rolling and different types of tubes for headphone amps and I came across an article that stated that the more power you feed to your amp, the more it reduces the life of the tubes. Is this statement true?

Also I am using Amperex Orange Globe tubes in my Valhalla 2. Is there any tubes out there that are warmer than the Amperex Orange Globes?

 

Its not about feeding more power to your amp but having an amp that gets more power out of a tube ( runs it hotter at a higher Voltage/ current ), that runs the risk of reducing a tube life. Its no different than any other electrical component though, they all last longer when run conservatively.
Just remember that when we talk of rated tube life of 5000-10000 hrs, it is according to the tests which were performed close to its maximum specs and most tubes would atleast run for that duration before coming to end of life. In amps which run tubes conservatively, you can actually expect much higher tube life.

 

Are there any tubes warmer than the Amperex Orange Globes?

 

I am probably not qualified to post in this thread, as I was just introduced to the world of tubes with my recent acquisition of a Liquid Glass amp. I have, however, been at it long enough to know that there is no way that I can afford to feed it a diet of holy grail type tubes. The PO of my amp shipped it with what were described as "an NOS set of 12sn7 Tungsol round plates" which became noisy within two weeks. I got a set of the currently manufactured Electro Harmonix 6SN7's that are OEM from Cavalli and did not like the sound. I also tried a set of noval 6FG7's that didn't stir me either. Resorting to eBay I came upon an inexpensive set of 6SN7GTB's ( ITT *Black Plate* Copper Grid Posts / Halo Getter /Japan) that sound very nice. Next I tried another version of 6SN7GTB (Ratheon / Baldwin marked) that also sound very nice. So I have determined that I am completely happy with good examples of this tube. My luck guarantees that if I bought a set of expensive and highly prized tubes that they also would become noisy within a week and the investment would be for naught. My current plan is to acquire, audition, and set back a good stock of these to see me from here to either senility or deafness (whichever occurs first and neither of which is likely very far away).

As far as eBay sourcing, I have found that it depends entirely on which seller you are talking about. I have been very happy with brhines2012 and very unhappy with a couple of others. I am sure that there are many more in both categories that I have not experienced.

 

Are the orange globes you have the ones with the shield of the "A-frame"? The Holland shield ones are some of my favorite 6DJ8 tubes. Slightly more 'lush' is the Holland Bugle Boy shield version, but I still prefer the OG tube.

 

I am not sure if the are A-frame - but they are Holland

 

I'll take a stab at your first question, but not even knowing which tube type the Amperex's are I'm not your guy.

About the only thing I can think of where you would have any real control over how much power your amp is feeding to the tubes is if you had the ability to make 'bias' adjustments to the amp. I don't believe the Schiit amps include a 'self biasing' feature on them.

I used a Lyr for a short while & seem to think that using 'Novib' socket savers worked really well at keeping unwanted vibrations away from the tubes. I had some bad luck with a set or two of some fairly pricey NOS sets I tried before getting the Novibs (which are basically socket bases that attach to the bottom of the tubes & then insert into the amp's sockets) from Tubemongers.

I didn't have the problem after installing these bases. They will raise the existing tube height by 3/4" as the socket savers contain silicone damping inside them. I think I came across a posting about them on AA who was using them with a Schiit amp he was using..

While the amount of power your tubes may be seeing isn't being changed , the consistency or stability of that power is prpbably a bit less stressful to the tubes in the long run.

 

This quote has a lot of misconceptions about how tubes are run, and about our amps, so let me clear some things up:

1. An amp does not "feed power to the tubes." The circuit topology biases the tubes (hopefully) at a constant current, which then (may) set the operational point for other stages of the amplifier.

2. Tubes inherently self-bias at some level when the heaters are on and a voltage is applied to them. This level will change due to variation in the tube production process, tube lifespan, and especially with different types of tubes that have different specs (rolling.)

3. Due to this self-bias variation, some amplifiers which are dependent on the tube operating at a set point have manual or automatic bias adjustment in order to keep the operating point stable. Vali 2 is an example of such an amp.

4. Lyr, Lyr 2, Mjolnir 2, and Valhalla 2 all use constant current source biasing (rather than, say, resistor biasing), which locks down the amount of current flowing through the tube and results in an invariant operating point regardless of tubes used—no manual or automatic bias adjustment necessary.

I hope this helps!

 

Are you looking for more rolled of treble or tubes richer in tonality?

 

Just wondering if there is a warmer tube than the Amperex Orange GLobes (Holland) that is still rich in tonality (I am still a nob at tube rolling so I am trying to learn)

 

Well, regardless of what misconceptions I may have posted about Schiit amplifiers (Whoops ! ; & I honestly don't think anyone owning or considering buying one would be deterred from my mistakes) (We're talking about inexpensive , popular equipment here) it absolutely couldn't hurt using the Novib bases additionally.

In truth "Tube Rolling" is a bit of a PITA, & I think when you move up the Tube amplifier design ladder "Rolling" isn't as necessarily as big a consideration to getting the best sound out of the amp. (It could just be that I don't care for the tube colorations that most NOS tubes seem to have; I worked hard as Hell to make sure my playback is neutral as possible ... the wide dynamic contrasts in the music I listen is "colored" just fine the way it is !)

 

If you attach a pic, I'll let you know which ones they are. That said, I've never heard the A-frames, so beyond ID'ing them, I cannot say how they compare to others. They're usually the newer production, but I will guess that they are very similar to the shield version.

Anyway, the following are relevant impressions from here: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8

Amperex 6DJ8, Orange globe logo, Holland (shield, steel pins,) Much better than the above tube No comparison in fact. Warm, vibrant, lively, grainless, transparent Amperex sound. Killer tube. Almost as good as my reference Amperex 6922s (coming up soon). I slightly prefer this tube to the best of the Siemens 6DJ8s, 6922s & 7308s.

Amperex 6DJ8, Bugle Boy logo, Holland (shield, steel pins,) Similar to the above tube with a slightly larger soundstage & more ambience, trading off a bit of impact and bass extension. I prefer the globe logo above to this tube by a small margin in spite of this tubes vaunted reputation. But still a good tube...

Amperex 6DJ8, RCA, Holland (A frame, steel pins) - More forward vocals than the Bugle Boy. Sweeter highs too, with bigger, slightly less focused images. A little closer to the Globe logo 6DJ8 overall in character than it is to the BB....​

 

Try a Mullard esp. the ones from Blackburn which are a bit warmer than those from Mitcham. The 'heerlen' E88CC from late 60s are also warmer and smoother than 'orange globes', so may you can try them as well.

 

I was interested in some socket savers for my Valhalla 2 -can anyone tell me what type I need (how many pins etc.) and perhaps send me a link to the ones I need from an online store like eBay etc.?

Thanks!

 

If the Valhalla 2 uses the same type of tubes as the Vali 2 (and I believe it does), then you want the $28 red NOVIB socket saver from Tube Monger: http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm

I've been considering getting one for my Vali 2.

 

Those are very nice, but I need 4 of them and they are $28.00 a piece so I am looking at almost $120 with shipping for 4 of them. I would like to get those, but they are just too expensive right now. What about these, will these work?

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver

 

Maybe (maybe not)

The pins on these "savers" don't appear to be as thick as the ones on the Novibs. There is also no mention of the bases having any silicone in them.

You might just want to try getting some Caig D5 cleaner & some "GUM" (or the CVS brand) Interdental Brushes & clean your amp sockets when ever you make a tube change.. Tiny micro scratches can occur from normal tube changes that may or may not show up as noise from the tubes. ( & then at some point just consider the Novibs as a tube set buy)

 

So I got a JAN Phillips 6922 tube for my Vali 2 to see if it "improved" anything. While I think it sounds good, and the soundstage and depth might be a little bigger now, I am hearing a low level hum when no music is playing. I didn't hear anything with the stock tube. The JAN has only been in the amp for maybe 30 min at this point. Anyone know what kind of hum this is? Is it something that might go away after a few hours/days? I paid extra for low noise and triode matching, but I honestly don't know what thresholds those would normally cover.