Universal Alternatives to UERM...

Discussion in 'IEMs and Portable Gear' started by kapanak, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. burnspbesq

    burnspbesq Friend

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    There's a bit more to it than that. Product quality and outstanding customer service help a little. It also helps that Brannan is right up there with Jason in the "genuinely good guy" table.
     
  2. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

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    They handed a free K10 Prestige to my buddy, who is just a retailer for their stuff and doesn't even have much of a public profile. "Encouraging" fellow members of the trade to say nice things is integral to their strategy. I'll defend the Savant as a pretty good sounding IEM for the money, but the marketing campaign for it was needlessly contemptuous of the public, hiding driver counts and all.
     
  3. Rotijon

    Rotijon Friend

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    Brennan is a decent guy, but he is still just a representative of noble, the one with the real power is John, and that guy is an asshole.

    Here's just one thing he did, to stop earwerkz from having foothold in South East Asia, he offered the noble dealers here free savants to not stock earwerkz demo's.
     
  4. burnspbesq

    burnspbesq Friend

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    It's business, not a tea party. In other product categories, manufacturers routinely pay retailers millions of dollars in "slotting fees," or fund co-op advertising, or create special promotions (BOGO, combo packs, whatever), in exchange for favorable shelf positioning. Any number can play. If it doesn't violate antitrust or unfair competition laws, then either compete or get trampled. If it does, then sue. Either way, no whingeing.
     
  5. Griffon

    Griffon 2nd biggest asshole on SBAF

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    Just heard the Noble Savant and it's a very close alternative to UERM. Maybe a bit more fun sounding than UERM, not as "reference tuning", but still an outstanding product.
     
  6. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

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    Thats a fair point, certainly.

    But then thats quite removed from the reasons you put up here, which are what I was arguing against. You try to associate Noble with Brannan's "genuinely good guy" persona, but their business practices don't jive with that.

    I thought it was very pleasant, but for critical listening I don't think the Savant was competitive in terms of technicalities with the UERM.
     
  7. Griffon

    Griffon 2nd biggest asshole on SBAF

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    Female vocals sounded sweeter than that on UERM. Overall slightly warmer, probably a touch moar bass, and less treble peak. Maybe helps a little of better bass note definition for Savant, but UERM is in no way incompetent. Lots of low-level information were lost on Savant. Like a N6 is retuned to have a more neutral, tighter, and somehow rougher signature; to be a UERM without critical technicalities.
     
  8. Kunlun

    Kunlun cat-alyzes cat-aclysmic cat-erwauling - Friend

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    Ha ha, dude, you really have a hate-on for John, whom I know. John is a totally stand-up guy and always has been.

    You just need to accept you don't know the story. Earwerkz has done some messed up things and has actually had to have legal action threatened against it. Yes, I'm serious and if you didn't know that it should give you pause.

    As for the K10 and Noble, it's not just marketing. The K10 has a warm signature that sounds good with a lot of different genres and it's technically very proficient. It's very enjoyable but it's not for someone looking for the UERM-type of tuning and people should be clear about that--I was definitely clear about that in my review of the K10.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
  9. velvetx

    velvetx Gear Master West/Vendor Spotlight Moderator

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    Just my two sense. The two times I have met Brennan the guy is super nice and straight up awesome. I personally have never met John but will say that Noble makes great products. Anyway onto product thoughts:

    Noble 4: slightly on the neutral side personally not enough bass for me. I felt that the detail retrieval and sound stage were very open and the vocals were very clean and clear. A definite winner if you are looking for an inexpensive IEM that does an amazing job focusing on detail accuracy, sound stage, and neutrality.

    Noble Savant: I felt that this also wasn't for me as it sounded like the music was veiled and again not enough bass for me (definitely more than the 4). The sound stage seemed kind of too close together and there was too much going on for the IEM to process. Definitely doesn't produce details like the Noble 4 and the sound stage also isn't as accurate.

    Noble K10: I felt that the sound stage on this IEM is also constricted and the bass is lacking for me (much better than the 4 and more than the Savant). The details were slightly better than the Savant as was the sound stage but still something was missing. I dunno I felt as the drivers increased that they seemed to be placed too close together and cause blending of the sound stage, instruments, and details. Personally didn't like it.

    Noble 6: This took the great sound stage and detail accuracy from the Noble 4 added more bass than both the Savant and K10 and basically gave me the sound I was looking for. The sound for me was the best sound out of all the Noble IEMs I heard. The vocals were accurate and detailed as were the instruments. It just sounded clear and open which is what I like and didn't sound one bit too lean or too harsh. The bass was tight and punchy. Definitely my choice and eventually I will have to get one.

    Noble definitely is a good company. Brennan at the shows is on sight and will do impressions for your ears for free if you decide to buy a Noble (at the shows that is what they offered). I thought Adel 1964 ears did better with more drivers (the A12 was amazing) than Noble but Noble with the 6 drivers and down were superior to the 1964 ears products to my ears. My one issue with Noble is I wish they made it more affordable with customization as your IEMs can get pretty expensive if you want some of their "cooler" looking options in either universal or custom.

    The problem is that the IEM market is becoming flooded very quickly and it is easy to be buried with all the new products coming out. In the high end IEM market though it seems like JH, Noble, Unique Melody, Heir Audio, and 1964 ears come to mind but if you have been following on HF you will find a ton of other companies out there all competing for space.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
  10. velvetx

    velvetx Gear Master West/Vendor Spotlight Moderator

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    I just want to bring up something that should be considered because I have heard many things about the audio culture in Asia versus say the US. I know Fiio decided to launch the X7 in Asia first (got a ton of paid preorders) and speaking with Warren from HF at Torrance the market seems a lot more stable there (people buy ridiculously high quality stuff for a high price). Can you please elaborate a little more into this because the go to market strategy for say someone like John from Noble would be considerably different in Asia than in the US.

    Personally I know quite a bit about doing business in Asia because my brokerage firm sells products from Asia and honestly it's not an easy process. I have heard some stories which I can't get into about shady things that have to happen to get your products either in country or out of country without issues. All these things should be considered when thinking about someone doing something questionable versus being successful in a certain market.

    Trust me not trying to take away what has been said here just want to get a better understanding as you both might know more than the rest of us.
     
  11. Kunlun

    Kunlun cat-alyzes cat-aclysmic cat-erwauling - Friend

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    Velvetx, I like the Noble 6 a lot as well. It's the most underrated of Noble line, I'd say. However, I don't think you had the full experience of the K10. I spent a week with the Noble 6 and the K10 when they first came out (and still have the K10) and the K10 should top the N6 technically,, in detail and in overall extension above and below. Soundstage and separation should be good on the K10 as well, meeting and, iirc, beating the N6.

    I still find Claritas' description of the N6's sound humorous, if he reads this I hope he'll share it here.
     
  12. velvetx

    velvetx Gear Master West/Vendor Spotlight Moderator

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    I will definitely have to give it another listen maybe a lot more extensively based on what you said.
     
  13. Out Of Your Head

    Out Of Your Head Friend

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    Full disclosure, I am good friends with Brannan. I had dinner with him the other night and he told me the whole Earwerkz story, from his perspective. Gratned, there are always two sides to a story and I have not heard the Earwerkz version, but let's just say that I can't imagine what Earwekz would have to say in response to everything that went down. I have always known Brannan to be extremely open and honest, so I would be shocked if he was making it all up.

    I have both the K10 custom and the N6. I have to agree with @Kunlun about his impressions of the K10 vs. the N6. I prefer the K10. Maybe it's just being a custom and getting a perfect seal every time. The K10 certainly does NOT lack bass for me. It extends very low and can hit hard even for an IEM. The K10 is no HD800 or UERM, from what I remember of a brief listen to the UERM demo unit. But I sure do love my K10's. I like Stax 009's too even though they aren't perfectly neutral and flat, far from it. I find my stock HD800's too bright and fatiguing.

    The K10's remind me a little of how LFF characterizes his Enigma headphones (which I also own, and enjoy) as "romantic". There's still a lot of detail and resolution, but it's not super bright.
     
  14. Rotijon

    Rotijon Friend

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    When i mean foothold, he tried to stop shops from even stocking Earwerkz. I think thats a major asshat move, when microsoft did that, it almost ended the company.

    Kunlun, you're right, i dont particularly like John, I dont like it when people no longer put the product as the focus, instead they try throw their weight around with head-fi mods to stop any disagreements on their thread, essentially bribe distributors to stop rival companies and use misleading marketing methods.

    I dislike him the same reason i dislike Jude. Dis-ingenuity, if its all just business, say it as such. Don't go around preaching about how its all about the hobby (Jude) or all about making the best earphone (John).

    Despite that, i wont take this away from him. He makes good stuff. The K10 and N6 is insanely good. For me, a smoothness fiend, it hits most of my spots, and John certainly did change the way CIEM's were made. He just happened to be a greedy and disingenuous asshat.

    PS: I know about the legal actions, Jack the owner of Earwerkz emailed me a few of the letters sent by John's lawyer. One of the letters, basically told Jack to stop repairing Noble earphones. Like, wtf? Who does this.
     
  15. money4me247

    money4me247 Friend

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    most market overall market for IEMs and DAPs in asia. Much more interest and very lucrative market. I think a lot more competition over there. Style is extremely important in regions like Japan and South Korea. Japanese audience likes to support their country's brands. In China, they prefer typically prefer foreign brands. Willing to spend a lot more overall. Average consumer in the States are primarily buying either Bose or Beats for premium and sub-$100 type earbuds as standard.
     
  16. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

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    I don't hold a very high opinion of the vast majority of the hobbyists here as far as making informed decisions about buying gear goes. There's a scary susceptibility to hype/group-think and a lack of restraint with expenditure that leads to mass purchases of stuff like Noble K10s and Chord Hugos (Explains Rob Watts visiting here all the time). They buy stuff because its expensive rather than in spite of the fact, as long as there was enough press drummed up for the product. Even Stoner Acoustics from Malaysia, who normally do really cheap stuff, seem to be getting into scalping the unwise out here. http://www.stoneracoustics.com/EGA .
     
  17. Claritas

    Claritas Friend

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    I listened to Noble 4 and 6 for a couple of hours during an afternoon lull at Axpona.

    The 6 was my favorite. I'd describe it as more audiophile than reference. Somewhat boosted low end and just a little smooth on top. There's something a little staid / old-manish about that. But the soundstage is a real advance over the 4.

    The 4 has that reference sound. Some low end roll off and a more extended treble. It's broadly similar to UERM, but I didn't connect with it to the same extent. The 4 universal is certainly competitive with everything at its price.
     
  18. Stapsy

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    My Tzar 350's seem like they are on their last legs. I would love to get a UERM style universal. The Nobel 6 or 64U6 look pretty cool but I am slightly worried it will be too bassy for me. Have any of you heard the Code-X? I would love to have an IEM with that sound signature.
     
  19. Judeus

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    more drivers = more better right? wrong

    I find more then 3 (maybe 4 if your a bass head) is the max drivers i would want in an iem

    Anymore then 1 per low mid high and I find there is are too many crossovers and it just sounds congested and weird.

    i think cohesiveness is far more to sq. I actually really like the ie800 for example, there are some major issues with it including the bass bloat, treble shimmer and weird ergonmics, propriotary tips, too short of cable ruin it for me (I recommend people try using the ie800 wrapped around ear, the deep fit as opposed to shallow fit)

    many negatives aside, in terms of tone and cohesiveness I find the ie800 to best basically everything. I really wish they would make an ie850 or ie800s and fix these complains I have as I would switch over to it from my UERM in a second
     
  20. kapanak

    kapanak Canucklehead - Friend

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    Funny you mention that, as the original IE800 had a totally different tuning than the production model. You can see this in the Innerfidelity graphs, it sounded similar to UERM.
     

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